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Excessive Taxation

Do americans pay too much or not enough in taxes?

  • Americans need to pay more in taxes, revise tax laws and create more social programs.

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • We pay too much in taxes, need to revise the tax laws and make government run more efficiently.

    Votes: 14 70.0%
  • I think the amount I pay in taxes is fair and have no complaints.

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20

TimmyBoy

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One of the things that has always personally bothered me about this country is taxes. Don't misunderstand me. I know that many countries have higher tax rates than the US. But that is not the point. The point is, are we paying too much for government? Are we being ripped off? Kinda like going into a store and paying 10 times the going market price for an item. I feel that we shouldn't have to pay as much in taxes in order to run government and it seems that in the past we were able to run effective government without as much taxes. What is your opinion and views?
 
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MrFungus420

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Well, since the 16th Amendment was only ratified in 1913, and the country managed pretty well prior to that, I think that it is obvious that the current waste, and taxation, in the country is too high.

Unfortunately, I don't think that we can go back to having no income tax, but it should be more level and applied more consistently.

Most importantly, we need to have the government trimmed down to what it is supposed to be doing. Everything that it is supposed to have the authority to do is enumerated in the Constitution. If it isn't in there, the government has no right to be involved in it.
 

TimmyBoy

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MrFungus420 said:
Well, since the 16th Amendment was only ratified in 1913, and the country managed pretty well prior to that, I think that it is obvious that the current waste, and taxation, in the country is too high.

Unfortunately, I don't think that we can go back to having no income tax, but it should be more level and applied more consistently.

Most importantly, we need to have the government trimmed down to what it is supposed to be doing. Everything that it is supposed to have the authority to do is enumerated in the Constitution. If it isn't in there, the government has no right to be involved in it.

I don't have a problem with paying my "fair share" of taxes. The problem that I have is paying too much, more than my "fair share". Like you know, your 401k or your traditional IRAs the contributions and the investment earnings is taxable. A Roth, you still pay taxes on your contributions even though the investment earnings are not taxable. You even pay taxes on the social security checks you collect. How can anybody get ahead in life? Government is suppose to work for and not against us. Yet, it seems that government is working against us.

Pay taxes at the pump, taxes when you buy stuff at the store, taxes on your phone bill, taxes on your electric bill, you pay income taxes on your income that you earn. Tax, tax , tax, tax, tax. Jesus, government gets too much to begin with and then turns right around and squanders it away and wastes the money.
 

mistermain

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Pork barrel spending, and government handouts are the root of all our economic problems.
 

TimmyBoy

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mistermain said:
Pork barrel spending, and government handouts are the root of all our economic problems.
Pork barrel spending comes from the lobbying efforts of special interest groups. I think that is why their is a strong need for campaign finance reform.
 

mistermain

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TimmyBoy said:
Pork barrel spending comes from the lobbying efforts of special interest groups. I think that is why their is a strong need for campaign finance reform.
I would like to see the government trimmed. Many departments, and expenditures are unnecessary.
 

ban.the.electoral.college

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The fact that George II is sponsoring corporate welfare and over spending for the war in Iraq is disheartening. I have no problem paying taxes as long as the money is spent on the people of our nation.
 

mistermain

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ban.the.electoral.college said:
The fact that George II is sponsoring corporate welfare and over spending for the war in Iraq is disheartening. I have no problem paying taxes as long as the money is spent on the people of our nation.
On that point I also believe we need to redirect some of the funds spent overseas. We give money to any country with an "issue", whether it's aids, or lack of food. What about here. Why can't we quit handing money out, and get people to support themselves. Why is my money going to some broad who has eight kids and no husband. I'm supposed to pay for their mistakes. Bull. The wellfare system we have is a joke. The fact that we even allow illegals to collect is crazy.

Don't get me a wrong, we need some form of a social safety net. I have been in a position once or twice where I needed help. We all have had rough times at one time or another (some more than others). My problem is with the people who refuse to work, continue to make poor decisions, or are here illegally. People who continue to drain our pockets, because they believe it is owed to them.

As far as the war, I am not all for it but we are there for what looks like the long haul. I don't see any clear way out of that mess. I just hope we can get our boys back without any more cassualties.
 

jamesrage

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One of the things that has always personally bothered me about this country is taxes. Don't misunderstand me. I know that many countries have higher tax rates than the US. But that is not the point. The point is, are we paying too much for government? Are we being ripped off? Kinda like going into a store and paying 10 times the going market price for an item. I feel that we shouldn't have to pay as much in taxes in order to run government and it seems that in the past we were able to run effective government without as much taxes. What is your opinion and views?
I think the problem is that we have career politicians that seem to be more interested in benifiting themselves instead of the voters and it seems that we have no voter initiatives for federal laws.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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TimmyBoy said:
One of the things that has always personally bothered me about this country is taxes. Don't misunderstand me. I know that many countries have higher tax rates than the US. But that is not the point. The point is, are we paying too much for government? Are we being ripped off? Kinda like going into a store and paying 10 times the going market price for an item. I feel that we shouldn't have to pay as much in taxes in order to run government and it seems that in the past we were able to run effective government without as much taxes. What is your opinion and views?
Actually, in the past, our taxes were much higher. Especially on the top income bracket.
 

Naheeh

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Has anyone heard of Americans for Fair Taxation? There's a best-seller out about it now - it's The FairTax Book by Neal Boortz. Essentially, the IRS would go bye-bye and we'd have a sales tax on new things. Used stuff wouldn't be taxed. People get to decide how much tax to pay based on what they buy. No payroll taxes or social security or anything.
 

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mistermain said:
On that point I also believe we need to redirect some of the funds spent overseas. We give money to any country with an "issue", whether it's aids, or lack of food. What about here. Why can't we quit handing money out, and get people to support themselves. Why is my money going to some broad who has eight kids and no husband. I'm supposed to pay for their mistakes. Bull. The wellfare system we have is a joke. The fact that we even allow illegals to collect is crazy.

Don't get me a wrong, we need some form of a social safety net. I have been in a position once or twice where I needed help. We all have had rough times at one time or another (some more than others). My problem is with the people who refuse to work, continue to make poor decisions, or are here illegally. People who continue to drain our pockets, because they believe it is owed to them.

As far as the war, I am not all for it but we are there for what looks like the long haul. I don't see any clear way out of that mess. I just hope we can get our boys back without any more cassualties.

Illegal Aliens are allowed to recieve welfare? That is downright ignorant, and I was feeling bad about getting unemployment.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Naheeh said:
Has anyone heard of Americans for Fair Taxation? There's a best-seller out about it now - it's The FairTax Book by Neal Boortz. Essentially, the IRS would go bye-bye and we'd have a sales tax on new things. Used stuff wouldn't be taxed. People get to decide how much tax to pay based on what they buy. No payroll taxes or social security or anything.
Ok, economics lesson here. Any tax that replaces the current tax system has to raise as much money as the current progressive tax system raises in order to finance the public sector.

Therefore, that sales tax would have to be fairly high.

Now, over 2/3s of our economy is powered by consumption.

So, you are proposing that we place a huge tax on consumption and therefore drop anchor on economic growth.
 

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SouthernDemocrat said:
Ok, economics lesson here. Any tax that replaces the current tax system has to raise as much money as the current progressive tax system raises in order to finance the public sector.

Therefore, that sales tax would have to be fairly high.

Now, over 2/3s of our economy is powered by consumption.

So, you are proposing that we place a huge tax on consumption and therefore drop anchor on economic growth.
I agree with this.
Also, something is going to have to be done about Bush's excessive spending, he has racked up ONE of if not THE largest deficits of our Nation's history.

What will probably happen is, the country is getting all angry about the way Bush and the Reps are running things so a democrat will take office, and get a majority as well, then they will have to raise taxes to try to return things to normal after Hurricane George, after these dems first term everyone will be pissed cause taxes are higher and vote a republican in.
 

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Caine said:
I agree with this.
Also, something is going to have to be done about Bush's excessive spending, he has racked up ONE of if not THE largest deficits of our Nation's history.

What will probably happen is, the country is getting all angry about the way Bush and the Reps are running things so a democrat will take office, and get a majority as well, then they will have to raise taxes to try to return things to normal after Hurricane George, after these dems first term everyone will be pissed cause taxes are higher and vote a republican in.
The only people that taxes are a big issue for in federal elections are hard core Republicans anyway. If a Dem gets into office and rolls back the tax cut on the top bracket to 90s levels, he or she will have no problem at all winning reelection so long as things are going well for the country.
 

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SouthernDemocrat said:
The only people that taxes are a big issue for in federal elections are hard core Republicans anyway. If a Dem gets into office and rolls back the tax cut on the top bracket to 90s levels, he or she will have no problem at all winning reelection so long as things are going well for the country.
Again.. I agree.
 

Vader

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SouthernDemocrat said:
Actually, in the past, our taxes were much higher. Especially on the top income bracket.

This is a very good point. There are some taxes in this country that are totally illegal and need to be abolished. Those taxes are:

* Death Tax

* Inheritence Tax

* Captial Gains Tax

* ALL TAXES ON LOTTERY AND GAMING WINNINGS

The aforementioned taxes represent political corruption in the U.S. Government. It is time these taxes were officially abolished. These taxes are meritless and do nothing but rob the American people.

Inheritence tax is a good example of this fact because it reprents the government stealing an extra cut of money, which has already been taxed. This money was taxed when it was earned. The government has absolutely no right to a second helping.

I do not want the government to steal money from a widow and children. When I die, I want my wife and children to reap the benefits of my assets. The government can go jump in a lake.

In addition to this, I do not see why the government should be entitled to 33 and 1/2 percent of my lottery winnings. The government is effectively fleecing the American people. This needs to be stopped. There are some states that pull this same scam. Those states need to be severly punished for their excessive greed.

Most of these taxes are the product of dishonest double-dealing in the house and the senate. Americans, as a people, need to find these politicians and see to it that they are punished and then permenantly barred from holding public office of any kind.

-Vader


To the greedy clowns that have conspired to rob Americans I offer the following:

 
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SouthernDemocrat

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Vader said:
This is a very good point. There are some taxes in this country that are totally illegal and need to be abolished. Those taxes are:

* Death Tax

* Inheritence Tax

* Captial Gains Tax

* ALL TAXES ON LOTTERY AND GAMING WINNINGS

The aforementioned taxes represent political corruption in the U.S. Government. It is time these taxes were officially abolished. These taxes are meritless and do nothing but rob the American people.

Inheritence tax is a good example of this fact because it reprents the government stealing an extra cut of money, which has already been taxed. This money was taxed when it was earned. The government has absolutely no right to a second helping.

I do not want the government to steal money from a widow and children. When I die, I want my wife and children to reap the benefits of my assets. The government can go jump in a lake.

In addition to this, I do not see why the government should be entitled to 33 and 1/2 percent of my lottery winnings. The government is effectively fleecing the American people. This needs to be stopped. There are some states that pull this same scam. Those states need to be severly punished for their excessive greed.

Most of these taxes are the product of dishonest double-dealing in the house and the senate. Americans, as a people, need to find these politicians and see to it that they are punished and then permenantly barred from holding public office of any kind.

-Vader


To the greedy clowns that have conspired to rob Americans I offer the following:

Ok, who are you going to raise taxes on to offset the decrease in revenue resulting from doing away with those taxes?
 

Naheeh

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Regarding the Fair Tax, imagine getting your ENTIRE paycheck and THEN deciding how you'd like to spend that money. The economy won't suffer because people will have more money to spend. If you had more money, would you cease to buy things? Or would you buy more? This would actually stimulate the economy. Some may decide to simplify and purchase everything used and have their own little garden so they don't have to buy much food. But others would go out and buy stuff they want - and buy it new. Plus, services would be taxed at that same "new" rate so revenue would be raised from that as well.

Of course, I'd love it if they went through every government program one by one and eliminated unneeded programs and unnecessary aspects of other programs, privatize as much as possible, but somehow I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
 

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Vader said:
This is a very good point. There are some taxes in this country that are totally illegal and need to be abolished. Those taxes are:

* Death Tax

* Inheritence Tax

* Captial Gains Tax

* ALL TAXES ON LOTTERY AND GAMING WINNINGS

The aforementioned taxes represent political corruption in the U.S. Government. It is time these taxes were officially abolished. These taxes are meritless and do nothing but rob the American people.

Inheritence tax is a good example of this fact because it reprents the government stealing an extra cut of money, which has already been taxed. This money was taxed when it was earned. The government has absolutely no right to a second helping.

I do not want the government to steal money from a widow and children. When I die, I want my wife and children to reap the benefits of my assets. The government can go jump in a lake.

In addition to this, I do not see why the government should be entitled to 33 and 1/2 percent of my lottery winnings. The government is effectively fleecing the American people. This needs to be stopped. There are some states that pull this same scam. Those states need to be severly punished for their excessive greed.

Most of these taxes are the product of dishonest double-dealing in the house and the senate. Americans, as a people, need to find these politicians and see to it that they are punished and then permenantly barred from holding public office of any kind.

-Vader


To the greedy clowns that have conspired to rob Americans I offer the following:

Isn't the current estate tax exemption something like 7 million per family?
 

Vader

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SouthernDemocrat said:
Ok, who are you going to raise taxes on to offset the decrease in revenue resulting from doing away with those taxes?
Inheritence Tax doesn't do ANYTHING but steal from the American public. This tax is an offensive joke that should never have been allowed to happen.

Deathtax is a joke. Death Tax is a means of government theft. The maximum government death benefit is $300. As such, the whole tax is USELESS and it needs to be abolished.

As to your question, I would raise taxes on big business and effectly end "corporate welfare". Those corporations, which have outsourced jobs to foreign countries would face the stiffest increases in taxation; with rate hikes of at least 55%. This rate would drop to 10% once all outsourced jobs have been returned to American hands.

-Vader
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Naheeh said:
Regarding the Fair Tax, imagine getting your ENTIRE paycheck and THEN deciding how you'd like to spend that money. The economy won't suffer because people will have more money to spend. If you had more money, would you cease to buy things? Or would you buy more? This would actually stimulate the economy. Some may decide to simplify and purchase everything used and have their own little garden so they don't have to buy much food. But others would go out and buy stuff they want - and buy it new. Plus, services would be taxed at that same "new" rate so revenue would be raised from that as well.

Of course, I'd love it if they went through every government program one by one and eliminated unneeded programs and unnecessary aspects of other programs, privatize as much as possible, but somehow I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
Here is the problem though with a national sales tax and a flat income tax. Right now, as a percentage of their income, the Middle Class is taxed the most (when you add payroll taxes in). However, because of the concentration of wealth and income, the majority of revenue comes from the top 10%. So if you competely flatten the tax, or go to a national sales tax, essentually all you are doing is putting a larger burden onto the Middle Class. You have to understand, the money has got to come from somewhere. I would rather pay my income taxes like I am now than to have to pay a 30 to 40 percent sales tax on every purchase I make.

Also, a progressive taxation system like the one we have is by far the fairest form of taxation. Bill Gates is taxed no more on his first 30k of income than his maid is.
 

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Vader said:
Inheritence Tax doesn't do ANYTHING but steal from the American public. This tax is an offensive joke that should never have been allowed to happen.

Deathtax is a joke. Death Tax is a means of government theft. The maximum government death benefit is $300. As such, the whole tax is USELESS and it needs to be abolished.

As to your question, I would raise taxes on big business and effectly end "corporate welfare". Those corporations, which have outsourced jobs to foreign countries would face the stiffest increases in taxation; with rate hikes of at least 55%. This rate would drop to 10% once all outsourced jobs have been returned to American hands.

-Vader
Pie in the sky. Taxation is not about fairness, its about practicality. Moreover, unless you plan on having a completely government controlled market, your not going to bring those jobs back. If you believe in the free market, and I do, then outsourcing is one of the things that happens.
 

Naheeh

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SouthernDemocrat said:
Here is the problem though with a national sales tax and a flat income tax. Right now, as a percentage of their income, the Middle Class is taxed the most (when you add payroll taxes in). However, because of the concentration of wealth and income, the majority of revenue comes from the top 10%. So if you competely flatten the tax, or go to a national sales tax, essentually all you are doing is putting a larger burden onto the Middle Class. You have to understand, the money has got to come from somewhere. I would rather pay my income taxes like I am now than to have to pay a 30 to 40 percent sales tax on every purchase I make.

Also, a progressive taxation system like the one we have is by far the fairest form of taxation. Bill Gates is taxed no more on his first 30k of income than his maid is.
Actually, the way it works is that the very wealthy wind up with no loop holes. Everything they purchase is taxed and there are luxery taxes on things too. Because they buy more stuff, they pay more taxes. The middle class can buy most everything used - house, car, clothes - deciding for themselves how much to pay in taxes and keeping the rest. The poor would benefit as well because they'd get a reimbursement back.

Personally, I'd rather keep more of my own $ and have control over how I spend it instead of turning it over to Uncle Sam and trying to live on what's left.

Plus, I don't know if you've heard the IRS horror stories. Just look at the congressional hearings. They're pretty awful. Families have been ruined, people have killed themselves and others have been harrassed for years and years and years over paperwork errors.
 

Vader

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Pacridge said:
Isn't the current estate tax exemption something like 7 million per family?
That way well be, but I still disagree with the very idea of the government taxing the same money twice.

- Vader
 
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