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Exactly why is Zelensky calling for talks with Putin?

Juin said:
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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!
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It's called 'diplomacy'. Zelensky doesn't want his country overrun by Putin's Soviet ambitions.
 
snakestretcher said:
It's called 'diplomacy'. Zelensky doesn't want his country overrun by Putin's Soviet ambitions.
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Diplomacy is also the art of the possible. The problem I see is that a return to Ukraine ante 2014 has to take a destruction by Zelensky of the Russian Army in the field. If those are his minimal conditions then I fail to see the point of his calling for talks
 
Gaius46 said:
Maybe because “winning” means boatloads of his people are killed, maimed and made homeless?

But that’s just a guess.
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Its actually a good guess. Zelensky basically wants to obtain from talks the Ukraine of ante 2014. Essentially maximum Ukraine. Complete with Donbass and Ukraine. That is the demand of a winner. How does he expect to obtain through talks what can only be achieved through destruction of the Russian Army?
 
Airyaman said:
Gee, I dunno...prevent the deaths of more civilians and destruction of civilian infrastructure? I know this might seem like a difficult concept to grasp, but meditate on it and you might just do it.
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The meditation you suggest, if you yourself cared to have done, logically suggests that the best out from the Logic of destruction and deaths in which two parties are engaged is through both avoiding making maximal demands. The Ukraine of ante 2014 Zelensky is asking for is as maximal as one can get. How is that not in conflict with a desire to prevent further deaths and destruction?
 
Juin said:
Its actually a good guess. Zelensky basically wants to obtain from talks the Ukraine of ante 2014. Essentially maximum Ukraine. Complete with Donbass and Ukraine. That is the demand of a winner. How does he expect to obtain through talks what can only be achieved through destruction of the Russian Army?
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He may want Crimea back. Or maybe he's just being a good negotiator. Ask for more than you want - or think you can get - and give it away at the negotiating table.
 
Aristaeus said:
He has outlawed some parties that had ties to Russia - the country that is invading them and killing them. The British government also outlawed the British fascist party during WW2 for the exact same thing.
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Seems to me like Zelensky is just finishing the job started in 2014 coup. The deRussification of Ukraine. If Russia is anathema to Ukraine, then maybe the best way out for Ukraine is amputation from it of the eastern and southern Russophone areas
 
Gaius46 said:
He may want Crimea back. Or maybe he's just being a good negotiator. Ask for more than you want - or think you can get - and give it away at the negotiating table.
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If he is just setting out maximalist demands as a negotiating tactic then I see nothing untoward with his calls for talks
 
Juin said:
Ok, how does cessation of hostilities at this stage benefit Ukraine? If hostilities cease at this point, Ukraine in all likelihood loses Crimea for good as well as chunks of Donbass. If Ukraine is to return to its territorial extent of 1991 then Russia has to be defeated in the field.
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The Maidan regime has lost Crimea for good and will never come back. Given that the most effective Russian advances have been made in the East by DPR forces I see no reason why Donetsk should go back to the Maidan regime either. The only real question is whether Ukraine will come out of this with any Black Sea access at all. The more Russia has to pay to force a surrender the more Ukraine will lose
 
Aristaeus said:
He has outlawed some parties that had ties to Russia - the country that is invading them and killing them. The British government also outlawed the British fascist party during WW2 for the exact same thing.
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You mean the leader of a country with neo-Nazi military units became a fascist dictatorship? That’s what Ukraine has done.

The whole “these people have ties” with Russia trope was the exact justification for crimes against civilians in 2014 that resulted in Ukraine’s problems in the first place
 
Rogue Valley said:
President Zelenskyy has suspended - not outlawed - 11 pro-Russia political parties that strive to assist Russia and do harm to Ukraine.

Remember, Ukraine is at total war and is under Martial Law since the invasion.
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Total war? You mean the economic model invented by Speer to maintain German arms production? Hmmm
 
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