Exactly why is Zelensky calling for talks with Putin?

[Juin]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

 

[Fledermaus]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

The war?

That's my guess.

 

[Juin]

The war?

That's my guess.

Ok, how does cessation of hostilities at this stage benefit Ukraine? If hostilities cease at this point, Ukraine in all likelihood loses Crimea for good as well as chunks of Donbass. If Ukraine is to return to its territorial extent of 1991 then Russia has to be defeated in the field.

 

[Mycroft]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

Maybe people would be wise to question these declarations that Ukraine is the winner of the military conflict.

 

[The Mark]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

Because he doesn't want the war to continue?
Because it kills his people?

 

[btthegreat]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

Zelinsky and Ukraine is the clear winner in the 'expectations game',on the diplomatic front and the PR game. There wasn't supposed to be a round 3 to this fight and there wasn't supposed a strong unified European and NATO response , or for there to be enough time for sanctions to hurt Russia or for an anti war protest movement to organize But by no means is Ukraine truly winning the war. That would require them to be marching into Russian territory, threatening to take their cities, and bombing Russian installations and targets.

We have a war of attrition with Russia unable to invade those cities. but either the Russians will bomb with cluster or vacumm bombs or use hypersonic missiles on the cities into submission, maybe employ chemical weapons to kill them off or simply wait for them to die off from lack of food, shelter or clean water.

Its still Zelensky who needs to stall for time. He's got to establish better supply routes for food, medicine etc into those cities and sanctuary routes to get refugees out, , get more offensive weaponry in strategic position to counter the missile launchers. and create more public pressure on Israel, NATO etc for more help. That's why he wants to talk. Putin needs to come up with an 'off ramp' that provides him serious concessions from Zelensky that will justify this war.

 

[Fledermaus]

Ok, how does cessation of hostilities at this stage benefit Ukraine? If hostilities cease at this point, Ukraine in all likelihood loses Crimea for good as well as chunks of Donbass. If Ukraine is to return to its territorial extent of 1991 then Russia has to be defeated in the field.

Less people dead
Less destruction
Less loss of territory
Etc.

 

[Gaius46]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

Maybe because “winning” means boatloads of his people are killed, maimed and made homeless?

But that’s just a guess.

 

[Airyaman]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

Gee, I dunno...prevent the deaths of more civilians and destruction of civilian infrastructure? I know this might seem like a difficult concept to grasp, but meditate on it and you might just do it.

 

[Juks]

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For a while now the Russo Ukrainian conflict has been stuck in the madhouse stage. Nothing makes sense. And the nuttiest character in the nut house appears to be Zelensky. Just about everyday he declares himself ready for talks with Putin. Why? In the military conflict he has already been declared the winner, so why is he calling for talks? Shouldn't it be Putin calling for talks? And what is there to discuss? Putin wants a piece of Ukraine, at the very least. Zelensky insists that the talks must ended up with Magna Ukraina, complete with Crimea and Donbass!

His people are dying?

 

[TheParser]

Yes.

When this savagery is all over one way or another, some details will become known that are bound to lower the near-universal reverence that is currently being shown toward President Z.

Already his sterling reputation is being chipped away by reports that he has outlawed some opposition parties and media -- just like his unhinged counterpart in Moscow.

Personally, I wish that President Z, would not continue to beg that Kremlin monster for a meeting. President Z. should refuse to ever meet that monster, who has so viciously ravaged Ukraine. All talks should be through third parties, and no patriotic Ukrainian should ever wish to be in the presence of that Russian NAZI.

 

[snakestretcher]

Because he doesn't want the war to continue?
Because it kills his people?

You'd think that was obvious! For some people it appears that seeking a diplomatic solution is anathema.

 

[Aristaeus]

Yes.

When this savagery is all over one way or another, some details will become known that are bound to lower the near-universal reverence that is currently being shown toward President Z.

Already his sterling reputation is being chipped away by reports that he has outlawed some opposition parties and media -- just like his unhinged counterpart in Moscow.

Personally, I wish that President Z, would not continue to beg that Kremlin monster for a meeting. President Z. should refuse to ever meet that monster, who has so viciously ravaged Ukraine. All talks should be through third parties, and no patriotic Ukrainian should ever wish to be in the presence of that Russian NAZI.

He has outlawed some parties that had ties to Russia - the country that is invading them and killing them. The British government also outlawed the British fascist party during WW2 for the exact same thing.

 

[TheParser]

He has outlawed some parties that had ties to Russia - the country that is invading them and killing them. The British government also outlawed the British fascist party during WW2 for the exact same thing.

Oh, yes!

During World War One, a Socialist candidate for President who was against involvement in Europe's "civil war," was imprisoned by the American government.

And a Japanese-language newspaper here in Los Angeles during World War II was closed down because its staff along with 100,000 other Japanese Americans were sent away to "relocation" camps.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Already his sterling reputation is being chipped away by reports that he has outlawed some opposition parties and media -- just like his unhinged counterpart in Moscow.

President Zelenskyy has suspended - not outlawed - 11 pro-Russia political parties that strive to assist Russia and do harm to Ukraine.

Remember, Ukraine is at total war and is under Martial Law since the invasion.

 

[Juin]

Zelinsky and Ukraine is the clear winner in the 'expectations game',on the diplomatic front and the PR game. There wasn't supposed to be a round 3 to this fight and there wasn't supposed a strong unified European and NATO response , or for there to be enough time for sanctions to hurt Russia or for an anti war protest movement to organize But by no means is Ukraine truly winning the war. That would require them to be marching into Russian territory, threatening to take their cities, and bombing Russian installations and targets.

We have a war of attrition with Russia unable to invade those cities. but either the Russians will bomb with cluster or vacumm bombs or use hypersonic missiles on the cities into submission, maybe employ chemical weapons to kill them off or simply wait for them to die off from lack of food, shelter or clean water.

Its still Zelensky who needs to stall for time. He's got to establish better supply routes for food, medicine etc into those cities and sanctuary routes to get refugees out, , get more offensive weaponry in strategic position to counter the missile launchers. and create more public pressure on Israel, NATO etc for more help. That's why he wants to talk. Putin needs to come up with an 'off ramp' that provides him serious concessions from Zelensky that will justify this war.

Excellent Analysis. One of the best. A+ to thee, my man.

I have to agree that a war of attrition is perilous for Russia. For the reasons you state. In the end whoever prevails in a war of attrition is who can manage to bring to the line of scrimage men, materiel, etc. Ukraine has manage to acquire itself a good pipeline for those. While Russia may still have to prove it can meet the demands of a war of attrition in Ukraine.

 

[Juin]

Maybe people would be wise to question these declarations that Ukraine is the winner of the military conflict.

It calls for caution. All casualties so far are Russian. Everyday I see reams of Russian casualties, zero on Ukrainians. Makes you what kind of war is this that the side that doesnt have air superiority, and is inferior in men and materiel appears to be inflicting all the casualties and taking none. I mean, it may be possible, but it calls for some caution in taking the accounts from British media on face value.

 

[MaryP]

President Zelenskyy has suspended - not outlawed - 11 pro-Russia political parties that strive to assist Russia and do harm to Ukraine.

Remember, Ukraine is at total war and is under Martial Law since the invasion.

And he has said that ceding Crimea to Russia and acknowledging independence of the Donbas will need to be decided by referendum. I don't think we need to worry a whole lot about him being a dictator. I could be wrong.

 

[lwf]

It calls for caution. All casualties so far are Russian. Everyday I see reams of Russian casualties, zero on Ukrainians. Makes you what kind of war is this that the side that doesnt have air superiority, and is inferior in men and materiel appears to be inflicting all the casualties and taking none. I mean, it may be possible, but it calls for some caution in taking the accounts from British media on face value.

What media are you watching that is reporting zero Ukrainian casualties?

 

[Juin]

Because he doesn't want the war to continue?
Because it kills his people?

That is the given. Both sides meet to examine each other's conditions for cessation of hostilities. It seems to me like both sides are miles apart. Clearly Zelensky wants talks, but also a restoration of Ukraine to ante 2014! That will require a defeat of the Russian Army in the field, no?

 

[Juin]

He has outlawed some parties that had ties to Russia - the country that is invading them and killing them. The British government also outlawed the British fascist party during WW2 for the exact same thing.

Was that the same parties that were evicted from power in the coup of 2014? It boils down to Ukraine's fundamental problem in a nutshel. Is the ethnic majority Ukrainian ever going to accept that there is a place for the minority Russophone east?

 

[The Mark]

That is the given. Both sides meet to examine each other's conditions for cessation of hostilities. It seems to me like both sides are miles apart. Clearly Zelensky wants talks, but also a restoration of Ukraine to ante 2014! That will require a defeat of the Russian Army in the field, no?

Even if he has no expectation of Russia actually agreeing to a ceasefire and talks or something, calling for talks gives him and Ukraine the moral high ground, kinda.
I don't know if he expects to get back 2014 borders for Ukraine, but you don't start negotiations with what you are willing to settle for, you start with more and bargain down in exchange for your opponent bargaining down their position..

Also, I'm sure he would far rather talks than war, so calling for it has the benefit of being truthful and not only political posturing.

 

[Juin]

Even if he has no expectation of Russia actually agreeing to a ceasefire and talks or something, calling for talks gives him and Ukraine the moral high ground, kinda.
I don't know if he expects to get back 2014 borders for Ukraine, but you don't start negotiations with what you are willing to settle for, you start with more and bargain down in exchange for your opponent bargaining down their position..

Also, I'm sure he would far rather talks than war, so calling for it has the benefit of being truthful and not only political posturing.

Agree

 

[Helix]

He probably wants putin to stop murdering Ukranians. Just a guess.

 

[Aristaeus]

Was that the same parties that were evicted from power in the coup of 2014? It boils down to Ukraine's fundamental problem in a nutshel. Is the ethnic majority Ukrainian ever going to accept that there is a place for the minority Russophone east?

No. And there is no fundamental problem in banning political parties that support an enemy power that is at war with you and is an existential threat to the survival of your country. Britain did it in WW2 when it banned the British Union of Fascists.