Ex-Spain PM: If Israel goes down, we all go down

[Apocalypse]

Ex-Spain PM: If Israel goes down, we all go down

In Times op-ed, José Maria Aznar asks West to remember Israel its only ally in 'turbulent' region

Ynet
Published: 06.17.10, 13:06 / Israel News

José Maria Aznar, former prime minister of Spain, published an opinion article with the London
Times Thursday saying the world must support Israel because "if it goes down, we all go down".

Aznar, who has joined the 'Friends of Israel' campaign to which David Trimble, a foreign observer
taking part in Israel's flotilla raid probe, also belongs, calls on Europe to refuse to put up with cries
to eliminate Israel as part of global Christian-Jewish cooperation.

"Anger over Gaza is a distraction. We cannot forget that Israel is the West’s best ally in a turbulent
region," Aznar writes of the IDF's calamitous raid on a flotilla bound for Gaza on May 31.

"In an ideal world, the assault by Israeli commandos on the 'Mavi Marmara' would not have ended
up with nine dead and a score wounded. In an ideal world, the soldiers would have been peacefully welcomed on to the ship."

Aznar also criticizes Turkey, to which the Marmara belonged, for placing Israel "in an impossible situation" in which it would have to either give up its security or face world condemnation.

(...)

Ex-Spain PM: If Israel goes down, we all go down - Israel News, Ynetnews

A voice of reason in Europe, it seems.

 

[Red_Dave]

But again what I dont see is what Israel is actually doing for the west? How is fighting Hezbollah and Hamas (who would have nothing against us if it wasnt for Israel) helping us?

 

[rivrrat]

Somehow I'm not seeing how Israel's disappearance would affect the rest of the world. Same goes for Spain or any number of other countries, for that matter.

The world doesn't rely on Israel for its continued existence.

 

[justabubba]

A voice of reason in Europe, it seems.

yet another attempt by an israeli sympathizer to deflect the world's attention from israeli misdeeds

 

[donsutherland1]

But again what I dont see is what Israel is actually doing for the west? How is fighting Hezbollah and Hamas (who would have nothing against us if it wasnt for Israel) helping us?

Somehow I'm not seeing how Israel's disappearance would affect the rest of the world. Same goes for Spain or any number of other countries, for that matter.

The world doesn't rely on Israel for its continued existence.

The geopolitical picture in the region is much more than just Hamas and Hezbollah. If the U.S./West abandoned Israel, radical actors in the region would calculate that U.S./Western commitments are not enduring, they cannot be sustained, etc. At the same time, relatively moderate governments would be weakened and compelled seek to hedge their own relationships in a bid to survive. More than likely, that could lead to greater efforts to appease restive populations and the region's other actors, speeding a trend away from the U.S./West whose commitments would be seen as less than credible.

Radical elements would gain an incentive to take measures that could be damaging to U.S./Western interests in the region. For instance, the resulting power vacuum and incentives could lead to a shift in the balance of power in favor of the Shia. Such a development could shatter the Saudi monarchy's ability to retain power and a more radical entity could gain control. That radical entity could, among other things, blame the U.S./West for the shift in the balance of power. If so, it could undertake covert or even overt operations aimed at undermining the new balance of power. Such moves could further destabilize the region, including Iraq. It could seek to deploy Saudi oil reserves as a strategic tool for enchancing its own interests even at the expense of global economic ones. Regional arms races could intensify, as could the risks of accidents or proliferation.

 

[Demon of Light]

In Times op-ed, José Maria Aznar asks West to remember Israel its only ally in 'turbulent' region

. . . .

"Anger over Gaza is a distraction. We cannot forget that Israel is the West’s best ally in a turbulent
region," Aznar writes of the IDF's calamitous raid on a flotilla bound for Gaza on May 31.

You know, if they're gonna lie about what he said to inflate Israel's importance they should try not to include direct quotes where he says something else.

 

[Apocalypse]

You know, if they're gonna lie about what he said to inflate Israel's importance they should try not to include direct quotes where he says something else.

Only ally and best ally is the same when speaking in relevance to a region, Demon.
Saying that a country is your best ally in the region and saying that it's your only ally in the region is hence obviously the same thing.
You are a man of many paradoxes. :2razz:

 

[Apocalypse]

Somehow I'm not seeing how Israel's disappearance would affect the rest of the world. Same goes for Spain or any number of other countries, for that matter.

The world doesn't rely on Israel for its continued existence.

You're replying to the title and not to the article itself.

 

[rivrrat]

You're replying to the title and not to the article itself.

No, actually, I was replying to what you posted in the OP.

 

[Apocalypse]

No, actually, I was replying to what you posted in the OP.

And from there you were replying only to the statement that is shown in the title of the thread.

 

[rivrrat]

And from there you were replying only to the statement that is shown in the title of the thread.

I was replying to what you quoted in your OP.

 

[alexa]

This so annoys me, such exaggerations. From the op quote

Aznar, who has joined the 'Friends of Israel' campaign to which David Trimble, a foreign observer
taking part in Israel's flotilla raid probe, also belongs, calls on Europe to refuse to put up with cries
to eliminate Israel as part of global Christian-Jewish cooperation.

What Christian-Jewish anything has to do with it I have no idea but suggesting anyone is suggesting eliminating Israel is going mad and suggests the person is deliberately misinforming. That this person belongs to the newly set up organisation which one of the so called 'independent' observers of the inquiry has also joined, just gives another indication of what can be expected.

 

[kaya'08]

Let me reword the Spanish politicians remark.

"If the US goes down, we all go down".

Loosing Israel will be a kick in the balls politically, but for as long as we have superpower, liberal, nuclear power America on our side, the loss of Israel will not mean the "loss of our own existence".

 

[Apocalypse]

I was replying to what you quoted in your OP.

You've replied to the first two sentences of the article, from what I've stated in the OP, which is a very short part from the article itself.
Hence you were not replying to the article, but to the part in it concerning the title of this thread, the two first setences from the beginning of the article which I've quoted.

 

[alexa]

Let me reword the Spanish politicians remark.

"If the US goes down, we all go down".

Loosing Israel will be a kick in the balls politically, but for as long as we have superpower, liberal, nuclear power America on our side, the loss of Israel will not mean the "loss of our own existence".

But Kaya, people are not suggesting Israel dissappear, just that there is a proper inquiry into what happened and that everything be done to remove the boackade on Gaza while taking measure to also secure Israel.

 

[Apocalypse]

Let me reword the Spanish politicians remark.

"If the US goes down, we all go down".

Loosing Israel will be a kick in the balls politically, but for as long as we have superpower, liberal, nuclear power America on our side, the loss of Israel will not mean the "loss of our own existence".

I think the Spanish ex-PM knows that, and what he's saying basically is that abandoning Israel would initiate a chain of events in the region and the world itself that would drastically work against Western interests.

 

[rivrrat]

You've replied to the first two sentences of the article, from what I've stated in the OP, which is a very short part from the article itself.
Hence you were not replying to the article, but to the part in it concerning the title of this thread, the two first setences from the beginning of the article which I've quoted.

DUDE. I wasted a full minute of my life reading the article. What I posted is a response to what I read in the article you posted in the OP.

Jesus ****ing christ.

 

[Apocalypse]

But Kaya, people are not suggesting Israel dissappear, just that there is a proper inquiry into what happened and that everything be done to remove the boackade on Gaza while taking measure to also secure Israel.

,
He's referring to the painting of an image that is the complete opposite of what was really going on on that flotilla, and how Europe should refuse to adopt that image, which is a part of a bigger agenda amongst some in the world to work towards the de-legitimazation of the Israeli state.
First by taking its right to self-defense away from it, and then moving onwards to its legitimacy to exist.

 

[Apocalypse]

DUDE. I wasted a full minute of my life reading the article. What I posted is a response to what I read in the article you posted in the OP.

Jesus ****ing christ.

I'll accept that since you're becoming angry, and nobody likes you when you're angry.

 

[kaya'08]

But Kaya, people are not suggesting Israel dissappear, just that there is a proper inquiry into what happened and that everything be done to remove the boackade on Gaza while taking measure to also secure Israel.

I wasn't suggesting that, i just think it wouldn't make a difference to the West. It would be a crime to allow a Democrat ME nation get drowned out, and i think that's the primary reason i support its continued Western financial support. I dont think its fate, however, serves a life or death scenario to us.

,
He's referring to the painting of an image that is the complete opposite of what was really going on on that flotilla, and how Europe should refuse to adopt that image, which is a part of a bigger agenda amongst some in the world to work towards the de-legitimazation of the Israeli state.
First by taking its right to self-defense away from it, and then moving onwards to its legitimacy to exist.

Stop ranting Apoco your just making things up now. What stupid accusations.

I think the Spanish ex-PM knows that, and what he's saying basically is that abandoning Israel would initiate a chain of events in the region and the world itself that would drastically work against Western interests.

The ME was screwed before Israel, it will be screwed after Israel.

 

[Apocalypse]

Stop ranting Apoco your just making things up now. What stupid accusations.

To each his own.

The ME was screwed before Israel, it will be screwed after Israel.

You're missing the point.

 

[alexa]

The geopolitical picture in the region is much more than just Hamas and Hezbollah. If the U.S./West abandoned Israel, radical actors in the region would calculate that U.S./Western commitments are not enduring, they cannot be sustained, etc. At the same time, relatively moderate governments would be weakened and compelled seek to hedge their own relationships in a bid to survive. More than likely, that could lead to greater efforts to appease restive populations and the region's other actors, speeding a trend away from the U.S./West whose commitments would be seen as less than credible.

Radical elements would gain an incentive to take measures that could be damaging to U.S./Western interests in the region. For instance, the resulting power vacuum and incentives could lead to a shift in the balance of power in favor of the Shia. Such a development could shatter the Saudi monarchy's ability to retain power and a more radical entity could gain control. That radical entity could, among other things, blame the U.S./West for the shift in the balance of power. If so, it could undertake covert or even overt operations aimed at undermining the new balance of power. Such moves could further destabilize the region, including Iraq. It could seek to deploy Saudi oil reserves as a strategic tool for enchancing its own interests even at the expense of global economic ones. Regional arms races could intensify, as could the risks of accidents or proliferation.

If the West demands a proper inquiry over what happened on the flotilla and given that that won't happen follows the EU line in working to end the blockade on Gaza with supervision for Israel's protection, this is going to cause all that you have said?

That argument seems to be suggesting that their is a belief that to have integrity in this world is not possible and so we should just all not have it.

 

[jallman]

A voice of reason in Europe, it seems.

I fail to see how Israel's continued existence means much to the rest of the world. Most of our issues with the Middle East stem directly from our support of Israel. I am thinking if we removed the Israel factor from our foreign policy, we probably wouldn't have as many problems dealing with the ME.

 

[kaya'08]

To each his own.

Please explain "my version of events" on the aid flotilla and quote where my opinions regarding what happened differ from yours.

You're missing the point.

Israel is a western democracy in a volatile region, hence why i support providing it with substantial fiscal support. It would be a crime to let you guys sink in a region where we need more Israel type government systems. I still dont think it would make a difference to us, however, if we where arseholes and said "to hell with Israel".

 

[rivrrat]

I'll accept that since you're becoming angry, and nobody likes you when you're angry.

I'm not angry, I'm annoyed.