Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bombin

[Grant]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Isn't it 20 yrs to life. Eric Holder said, "we can not fail", but trying them in civilian court makes it too easy to get off on technicalities. A military tribunal might have accepted the testimony of one of the witnesses that got kicked out in the civilian court. The military court has rules, of course, but it may have been harder to get off on all those counts.

What say you?

It should obviously be military. BHO is obviously dividing the country with this craziness. Either he is stupid or its deliberate. I choose the latter.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

So, you're saying rights only apply to some people. Ok.

Instead of such a kneejerk post, why don't you take the time to look at how the Constitution and The Geneva Conventions apply. You will note that you have rights as an American citizen within jurisprudence that an enemy combatant does not have. Further, enemy combatants are not all treated the same under the law.

Why don't you show me where this perp had a right to a U.S. civilian court trial ? That shouldn't be too hard for you to do. Then you will see the knowledge in my words

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

The American justice system does not dispense justice solely to American citizens but to all persons under our nation's jurisdiction; our constitution and laws provide certain rights and opportunities to all those within the system.

See my above answer, but again it is not an issue of "justice" with this issue. It is a question of rights, and if you research it, you will see that the rights do vary as I have noted.

How about you provide some insight and links to support your assumptions as you address this assertion by me: If you, as an American citizen in San Fransisco, go down the street and rob a convenience store and shoot dead the employee there, you cannot be tried in a Military Commission trial. You also have a right to a trial by a jury of your peers.

However, if you are a resident of Kenya, and participate in the bombing of U.S. property there, and the killing of 14 Americans and many more employees on sovereign embassy soil, you can be apprehended and extradited to any U.S. jurisdiction. You can be tried before a Commission whether you like it or not. You have no right to a jury of your peers. There will be other significant differences as well. Its all still Justice.

So, instead of sniping without providing any basis, put something up. Thanks.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

His guilt or innocence or how long he will be in prison is irrelevant. My point is that this is another indication of the incompetence of the Obama administration.

.

Why? Obama's administration didn't likely bring this person in or put together the intital case. That would speak to those before the Obama adminsitration quite frankly. But, why is seieng justice done a bad thing? Should someone be convicted if you don't have the evidence to convince a jury?

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Why? Obama's administration didn't likely bring this person in or put together the intital case. That would speak to those before the Obama adminsitration quite frankly. But, why is seieng justice done a bad thing? Should someone be convicted if you don't have the evidence to convince a jury?

The Obama Administration most certainly did make the choice to try this perp in Federal Civilian Court rather than by Military Commission. Holder's DoJ most certainly did prepare the case. Agree or disagree with the result, they are most certainly responsible for any perceived difference in outcome resulting from that choice. As this puke was apprehended in Pakistan, I have a beef that we didn't just choose summary execution and drop a cruise missle on his head while he was there. I believe Obama averages about one such execution per day, although they are done in bunches

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

The Obama Administration most certainly did make the choice to try this perp in Federal Civilian Court rather than by Military Commission. Holder's DoJ most certainly did prepare the case. Agree or disagree with the result, they are most certainly responsible for any perceived difference in outcome resulting from that choice. As this puke was apprehended in Pakistan, I have a beef that we didn't just choose summary execution and drop a cruise missle on his head while he was there. I believe Obama averages about one such execution per day, although they are done in bunches

I do like the choice of the word perceived above.

Perhaps, but not responsibkle for what was done before he took over, which would effect the evidence. And if we don't have enough evidence that would convince a jury, could it be that the charges really aren't justified? Limiting the standard of evidence may make some feel safer, I suppose, but I'm not sure it speaks to justice. If we have the evidence, I say put them away. But there was a reason that standards of evidence were ever seen as good in the first place. It is too easy to make someone look quilty. I have no idea how many, if any this may aplly to, but I feel better about putting someone away for life if I have good reason to believe the evidence is sound.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

I do like the choice of the word perceived above.

Perhaps, but not responsibkle for what was done before he took over, which would effect the evidence. And if we don't have enough evidence that would convince a jury, could it be that the charges really aren't justified? Limiting the standard of evidence may make some feel safer, I suppose, but I'm not sure it speaks to justice. If we have the evidence, I say put them away. But there was a reason that standards of evidence were ever seen as good in the first place. It is too easy to make someone look quilty. I have no idea how many, if any this may aplly to, but I feel better about putting someone away for life if I have good reason to believe the evidence is sound.

No real argument from me on that. I am clearly in the camp the sees the Federal Civil Court system as giving the accused the best opportunity to get off. I also do not include that in my definition of "justice", as you can imagine. It is because I see that Civil system is a poorer fit for Justice with regard to enemy combatants, and also a poorer fit for national security.

I do not want to see anyone rail-roaded though, and as an aside, if one were to go back and look at the eight German spies apprehended stateside (about 1942 I think), they truly were rail-roaded by FDR. I read the book, btw. That process was a joke, and six of them were hung. However, after that. we used a more fair process towards the end of the war with some different spies, and the outcome was less harsh and I believe more fair.

Our current Commission system is the result of a 2006 SCOTUS decision, recent Congressional legislation, an overview by the DoJ .... add them up, that's all 3 branches of government that have approved what is in place right now. I do believe the verdict would have been more substantial with a Commission, although I do not know that for certain. However, I do have faith that it is closer to "Justice", for both the accused and the victim, in cases of trying enemy combatants. It most certainly is a Constitutionally allowed option, and is completely within our due-rights process.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

No real argument from me on that. I am clearly in the camp the sees the Federal Civil Court system as giving the accused the best opportunity to get off. I also do not include that in my definition of "justice", as you can imagine. It is because I see that Civil system is a poorer fit for Justice with regard to enemy combatants, and also a poorer fit for national security.

I do not want to see anyone rail-roaded though, and as an aside, if one were to go back and look at the eight German spies apprehended stateside (about 1942 I think), they truly were rail-roaded by FDR. I read the book, btw. That process was a joke, and six of them were hung. However, after that. we used a more fair process towards the end of the war with some different spies, and the outcome was less harsh and I believe more fair.

Our current Commission system is the result of a 2006 SCOTUS decision, recent Congressional legislation, an overview by the DoJ .... add them up, that's all 3 branches of government that have approved what is in place right now. I do believe the verdict would have been more substantial with a Commission, although I do not know that for certain. However, I do have faith that it is closer to "Justice", for both the accused and the victim, in cases of trying enemy combatants. It most certainly is a Constitutionally allowed option, and is completely within our due-rights process.

Thanks for the well reasoned response.

For both, everything is in the details. Early on I think there were more problems with the system than are there now. However, anything that pllied rule of law and allowed a proper and fair defense for those accused would be alright with me. But it should be open and transpared, so that all can see that justice and not railroading was rule.

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

It should obviously be military. BHO is obviously dividing the country with this craziness. Either he is stupid or its deliberate. I choose the latter.

Incompetent is what a whole lotta people are now thinking, and rightly so. He needs to go back to community organizing, but then again, maybe not, cause that would be just another way for him to spend other people's money.

 

[Grant]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

Incompetent is what a whole lotta people are now thinking, and rightly so. He needs to go back to community organizing, but then again, maybe not, cause that would be just another way for him to spend other people's money.

While doing this "Community Organizing" he also contributed to the US housing disaster. This guy is a very short term thinker.

Just scroll down.

Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse

 

[The Prof]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

washington post today:

Verdict in terror case a setback for advocates of civilian trials

What was a very bad day for Ahmed Ghailani, now a convicted felon likely to spend many years in a supermax prison, was also, because of the super-charged politics surrounding Guantanamo Bay, a pretty bad day for the Obama administration.

To be sure, the 36-year-old Tanzanian was convicted Wednesday of one count of conspiracy in federal court in New York. In addition, Ghailani could well serve life in prison for his role in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa by al-Qaeda. And it's at least debatable whether the outcome would have been different in a military commission in Cuba.

But the political reality is that the prospect of a tough sentence for conspiracy to destroy U.S. property by fire or explosives was largely swallowed up by a stunning verdict in which Ghailani was acquitted of 284 counts, including all 224 murder counts.

Across the administration, from the White House to the Justice Department, and among some human rights advocates, there was private dismay that the first trial of a Guantanamo Bay detainee brought into the United States did not result in a clear and unequivocal conviction on all counts.

Neither President Obama nor Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. commented publicly on the verdict, which other officials said they interpreted as a sign of quiet defeat. The political climate for civilian trials will grow only worse in January once Republicans - who are widely opposed to using federal courts to prosecute Guantanamo detainees - take over the House, officials said.

Had the jury found Ghailani not guilty on all counts, as at least seems possible now, it could have resulted in the extraordinary spectacle of the Obama administration ignoring the judgment of a jury of ordinary Americans and returning Ghailani to military custody and possibly his old cell at Guantanamo Bay's Camp 7 detention center. That is a scenario also likely to temper judgments about proceeding with other civilian trials.

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

While doing this "Community Organizing" he also contributed to the US housing disaster. This guy is a very short term thinker.

Just scroll down.

Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse

He sure did. Obviously he didn't hang with his brothers in the ghetto to learn what it's really like. He thinks people who have no money are going to pay back their loans. They think that someone else will pay for it if they can't, or they just walk away from it after they trash it.