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Evolution v Creation. Whats the difference?

dsg94

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You have two theories that cant be proved. I have to say that evolutionist annoy me more than creationist. People that believe God created the earth accept that on faith. IMO, evolutionist put out a bunch of theories and try to pass them off as fact.
 

tecoyah

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dsg94 said:
You have two theories that cant be proved. I have to say that evolutionist annoy me more than creationist. People that believe God created the earth accept that on faith. IMO, evolutionist put out a bunch of theories and try to pass them off as fact.
Actually, those who believe evolution is Valid , generally put out a bunch of theories, and try to pass them off as.....uh....theories.
See we call it science, which is this thingy we use to look at stuff . In fact...really the only folks I hear mentioning the words Fact, and Evolution in the same context are creationists....You know, like you just did.
 

dsg94

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tecoyah said:
Actually, those who believe evolution is Valid , generally put out a bunch of theories, and try to pass them off as.....uh....theories.
See we call it science, which is this thingy we use to look at stuff . In fact...really the only folks I hear mentioning the words Fact, and Evolution in the same context are creationists....You know, like you just did.
I suppose I did generalize a touch but the people who are evolutionist that I have come in contact with believe this theory as if it were the gospel (ironically). Ive read a few of those fancy "synts" books and there are some wonderful things in them. There are millions of wondrous things that science can and will do in the future but proving evolution doesn't seem to be one of them.
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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Instead of making a duplicate thread, why don't you read the 3 threads on evolution vs creationism?
 
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Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
Instead of making a duplicate thread, why don't you read the 3 threads on evolution vs creationism?
But that would require an increase in information which the 2nd law of thermodynamics forbids
 

steen

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dsg94 said:
IMO, evolutionist put out a bunch of theories and try to pass them off as fact.
Are you deliberately seeking to misrepresent science here, or are you merely ignorant of what Science and the Scientific Method actually are?
 

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dsg94 said:
I suppose I did generalize a touch but the people who are evolutionist that I have come in contact with believe this theory as if it were the gospel (ironically).
Really? A Gospel is something fixed and static, which certainly doesn't fit anything Science deals with, so your claim seems rather oddly wrong. Anyway, when you say "theory," what exactly do you mean here?
 

dsg94

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steen said:
Really? A Gospel is something fixed and static, which certainly doesn't fit anything Science deals with, so your claim seems rather oddly wrong. Anyway, when you say "theory," what exactly do you mean here?
As I stated before I am speaking of the people that I come in contact with on a regular basis. As far as the gospels thing goes, relax, I was just using it to show how strongly these folks believe that what they believe is right. Theory, a belief you cant prove.
 

aps

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Creationists, to me, don't question the things that they believe because if they did, they wouldn't beleive in creationism. If mankind started through Adam and Eve, who were supposedly white, how are we able to have so much diversity throughout the world? When were black people created? When were Asians created?

When people cannot explain things, they attribute it to the supposed "God."
 

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steen said:
Really? A Gospel is something fixed and static, which certainly doesn't fit anything Science deals with, so your claim seems rather oddly wrong. Anyway, when you say "theory," what exactly do you mean here?
You can explain evolution about as well as anyone on the planet can explain gravity.......it is just as founded.
 

steen

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dsg94 said:
As I stated before I am speaking of the people that I come in contact with on a regular basis. As far as the gospels thing goes, relax, I was just using it to show how strongly these folks believe that what they believe is right. Theory, a belief you cant prove.
Ah, but your use of "theory" does not match the reality of what a SCIENTIFIC THEORY is. When you talk about theories in Science, you are talking about SCIENTIFIC THEORIES. These are not mere speculations without evidence, they are the END product of the Scientific Method. To call them "beliefs" is a gross misrepresentation.

Hence, your claim is actually false. I would appreciate you actually learning a bit about this before conmtinuing these argument. It kind of is disrespectful to argue against something based on misinformation and then not take some time to actually learn what the facts are before continuing the argument against it..
 

steen

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alphieb said:
You can explain evolution about as well as anyone on the planet can explain gravity.......it is just as founded.
As it exists and the Scientifci Theory explains the mechanism. Yes, that is right. The Scientific Theory of Gravity explains the reasons why gravity works as it does, just like the Scientific Theory of Evolution explains why Evolution works as it does.
 

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steen said:
As it exists and the Scientifci Theory explains the mechanism. Yes, that is right. The Scientific Theory of Gravity explains the reasons why gravity works as it does, just like the Scientific Theory of Evolution explains why Evolution works as it does.
Explain to me what is gravity?
 

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alphieb said:
Explain to me what is gravity?
Gravity is the proportional force of attraction between bodies, proportional to the mass of these bodies.
 

alphieb

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steen said:
Gravity is the proportional force of attraction between bodies, proportional to the mass of these bodies.
No one on the planet truly knows what gravity is?
 

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dsg94 said:
I suppose I did generalize a touch but the people who are evolutionist that I have come in contact with believe this theory as if it were the gospel (ironically). Ive read a few of those fancy "synts" books and there are some wonderful things in them. There are millions of wondrous things that science can and will do in the future but proving evolution doesn't seem to be one of them.
Really? what do they teach kids in science these days? Do they even study the scientific method anymore? I mean I am not old, but damn.

Ok, a Scientific theory, is a method to explian millions (or more) facts, in a general way. In the realm of science it has been tried and tested, and continues to be so. Evolution is not "gospel" Gospels don't change, evolutionary theory, in fact, evolves over time. Evolution has progress sooo far beyond Darwin, they are almost discimilar.

And if one day, evolution is found to be wrong, and some other better system comes along to explain things, evolution will be discarded. WHen Creationist Gospels are proved wrong, inquisitions occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
 
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steen

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alphieb said:
No one on the planet truly knows what gravity is?
What do you mean? I just gave you the short version of the Scientific Theory of Gravity.

Are you somehow claiming that scientific findings are wrong, that the Scientific Method doesn't work and leads to false results?

It sure seems like your attack is against the Scientific Method, which means that you are claiming ALL science is wrong. Would you care to clarify that perception?
 

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alphieb said:
No one on the planet truly knows what gravity is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

I think you're being to strict in your question. You're not concerned about the incredible amount we know about gravity, but something you can 'put your finger on."

We know it's generally a choice between curvature of space-time (best choice), a particle or wave force (common, but unsubstantiated as of yet), or Strings (mathemetical). It may even be a combonation of all three. It also may be possible that we can never "know" any more than paint can "know" the whole of the canvas it is painted on.

However, even without 100% absolute certainty into the complete character of gravity, gravity is still real.

Without 100% complete absolute certainty into the complete character of Evolution, Evolution is still real.

Creationism does not have 100% absolute certainty, that's why the substitute knowledge for faith. So if you fault Gravitation, evolution, germ theory, atomic and molecular theory, electron theory, and the host of other theories that explain the ways things occur to you everday; if you fault those for not being certain, you can not hold upon high faith, which is also a lack of certainty. Let alone anything that is born from in uncertainty of faith.
 

dsg94

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steen said:
Ah, but your use of "theory" does not match the reality of what a SCIENTIFIC THEORY is. When you talk about theories in Science, you are talking about SCIENTIFIC THEORIES. These are not mere speculations without evidence, they are the END product of the Scientific Method. To call them "beliefs" is a gross misrepresentation.

Hence, your claim is actually false. I would appreciate you actually learning a bit about this before conmtinuing these argument. It kind of is disrespectful to argue against something based on misinformation and then not take some time to actually learn what the facts are before continuing the argument against it..
As Ive said before I believe in science. Scientific research has brought us many wonderous things and will more than likley continue to do so, but unless they build a time machine we will not know if god started the universe or a big bang did.

I'm not sure what claim you believe that I'm trying to make that is false. I only stated the one thing that is a fact between both theories, neither can say with certainty that what they believe(or the evidence points to in there opinion) CANNOT be proved at this point.
 

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dsg94 said:
As Ive said before I believe in science. Scientific research has brought us many wonderous things and will more than likley continue to do so, but unless they build a time machine we will not know if god started the universe or a big bang did.

I'm not sure what claim you believe that I'm trying to make that is false. I only stated the one thing that is a fact between both theories, neither can say with certainty that what they believe(or the evidence points to in there opinion) CANNOT be proved at this point.
But there aren't two theories,, never mind how much you claim it, unless you are deliberately dishonest and are trying to portray a Scientific Theory as "just an ordinary theory."


As for what can be proved, by the virtue of havuing been explored through the Scientific Method, there IS evidence for the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

So your claims are all either false or ignorant.
 

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libertarian_knight said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

I think you're being to strict in your question. You're not concerned about the incredible amount we know about gravity, but something you can 'put your finger on."

We know it's generally a choice between curvature of space-time (best choice), a particle or wave force (common, but unsubstantiated as of yet), or Strings (mathemetical). It may even be a combonation of all three. It also may be possible that we can never "know" any more than paint can "know" the whole of the canvas it is painted on.

However, even without 100% absolute certainty into the complete character of gravity, gravity is still real.

Without 100% complete absolute certainty into the complete character of Evolution, Evolution is still real.

Creationism does not have 100% absolute certainty, that's why the substitute knowledge for faith. So if you fault Gravitation, evolution, germ theory, atomic and molecular theory, electron theory, and the host of other theories that explain the ways things occur to you everday; if you fault those for not being certain, you can not hold upon high faith, which is also a lack of certainty. Let alone anything that is born from in uncertainty of faith.
Now that is a good smart post. You have it pegged and I'm not being sarcastic. Steen on the other hand is very confused.
 

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steen said:
As it exists and the Scientifci Theory explains the mechanism. Yes, that is right. The Scientific Theory of Gravity explains the reasons why gravity works as it does, just like the Scientific Theory of Evolution explains why Evolution works as it does.
The theory of Gravity does not really explain anything. That is why scientists are looking into the string theory. Einstien's and Newton's theory do not add up and equally infinity?????????? I was making a point that sometimes theory's are just that and not gospel.
 

dsg94

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steen said:
But there aren't two theories,, never mind how much you claim it, unless you are deliberately dishonest and are trying to portray a Scientific Theory as "just an ordinary theory."


As for what can be proved, by the virtue of havuing been explored through the Scientific Method, there IS evidence for the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

So your claims are all either false or ignorant.
Your statement just proves my point.

What is false or dishonest about telling the truth about two differing views on on how this earth came into being. You think you know and Christians(and others) think they know how things came to be. If you are honest with yourself you admit that you want to believe the Earth was formed in a certain way and its OK to think so but you CANNOT prove it.
 

alphieb

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alphieb said:
The theory of Gravity does not really explain anything. That is why scientists are looking into the string theory. Einstien's and Newton's theory do not add up and equally infinity?????????? I was making a point that sometimes theory's are just that and not gospel.
Sorry, I mean Einstien's and quantum do not add up and equal infinity.
 

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dsg94 said:
Your statement just proves my point.

What is false or dishonest about telling the truth about two differing views on on how this earth came into being.
You were discussing Science and theory. In Science, a Theory is a very specific thing, namely the end product of the Scientific Method. hence, when you make the claim that science and non-science both are "just theories," then the claim is outright deceptive. You are either misrepresenting the bible as somehow having been generated through the Scientific Method, or you are misrepresenting a Scientific Theory per describing is as "only a theory," using 'theory" in the popular sense of speculation, merely a guess.

In either case, the comparison is flagrantly dishonest.

And it also depends on what you argue. If you are arguing the Scientific theory of Evolution, then yes it is a Scientific theory. If you are arguing the actual occurance of Evolution itself, then that is a FACT, the process having been documented directly numerous times.

So you are on very shaky ground here.
You think you know and Christians(and others) think they know how things came to be.
What nonsense. For one, I am also a Christian. Secondly How things came to be can be interpreted a bunch of times. If you are discussing recent changes, then you are OK talking about Evolution. If you are talking about things like the origin of the universe of the origin of life, then that is not part of the Scientific Theory of Evolution, and hence your remarkk would be utter nonsense.

So it always is beneficial to actually know and understand what you are talking about.
If you are honest with yourself you admit that you want to believe the Earth was formed in a certain way and its OK to think so but you CANNOT prove it.
Huh? What does the formation of the Earth have to do with Evolution? It sure seems like you are clueless about Evolution, the thing you are trying to speak against. That merely makes you look silly.
 
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