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Evictionism; a right to remove the fetus, but not kill it.

rivrrat said:
Having sex can lead to pregnancy, but doesn't always. In fact, most often it does NOT lead to pregnancy. Ergo, having sex is not consent to being pregnant.

Driving a car CAN lead to accidents/injuries, but doesn't always. In fact, most often it does NOT lead to accidents/injuries. Ergo, driving a car is not consent to being injured in an accident.
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so a child is akin to a car accident.....


You know when I get home and my son has all his toys strewn out and the house is a mess, you may have a point. :lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
so a child is akin to a car accident.....


You know when I get home and my son has all his toys strewn out and the house is a mess, you may have a point. :lol:
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An accidental pregnancy is akin to an accidental car crash. An accident is an accident. It means an unintended outcome. If you seriously think that having sex is tantamount to giving full consent to being pregnant, then it only logically follows that you would feel the same about anything that could have 'unintended outcomes'. Which means that getting into a car is full consent to being in an accident and possibly losing life or limb.
 
R. Shackleferd said:
I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on Evictionism.

The Free Market Case Against Abortion | Strike-The-Root: A Journal Of Liberty
The Humble Libertarian: Libertarianism and Abortion: The Problem With Walter Block's "Evictionism"
Libertarians for Life - Abortion, Choice, and Libertarian Principles
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Hells bells...it takes longer than 9 months to evict a deadbeat tenant! So as long as the baby can file writs, have a legal brief filed on the baby's behalf, go through due process...file...wait the mandatory time...plus the inevitable delays...she might as well have the baby.

And dont think its any easier with the unwanted tenants that you didnt plan for either...they still have 'rights' too.

And of course the difference is...we attempt to remove squatters and deadbeats from our property...not kill them...
 
rivrrat said:
An accidental pregnancy is akin to an accidental car crash. An accident is an accident. It means an unintended outcome. If you seriously think that having sex is tantamount to giving full consent to being pregnant, then it only logically follows that you would feel the same about anything that could have 'unintended outcomes'. Which means that getting into a car is full consent to being in an accident and possibly losing life or limb.
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Well consent or not, car accidents happen, however, if I don't where a seatbelt, (protection) I in essense do indeed consent to a world of hurt should this not work out right.
 
rivrrat said:
An accidental pregnancy is akin to an accidental car crash. An accident is an accident. It means an unintended outcome. If you seriously think that having sex is tantamount to giving full consent to being pregnant, then it only logically follows that you would feel the same about anything that could have 'unintended outcomes'. Which means that getting into a car is full consent to being in an accident and possibly losing life or limb.
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Its really a matter of semantics, isnt it? The question simply is is it life or not. If it isnt it has no rights. If it is, we are advocating slaughter for the sake of convenience.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Well consent or not, car accidents happen, however, if I don't where a seatbelt, (protection) I in essense do indeed consent to a world of hurt should this not work out right.
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No, you consent to the higher RISK of injury should you happen to get into an accident. We ALL consent, or accept would be a better term, the risk of an accident when we get into a vehicle. That doesn't mean we're consenting to an accident itself. Or to injuries. Seatbelt or no. I fully agree that not wearing a seatbelt is just as silly as not wearing a condom. But that still doesn't mean that you've consented to have your head bashed through the windshield. I've been there, done that. I know I sure as **** didn't consent to the gash on my forehead. :lol: Stupid not to wear the belt? Without a doubt. Still wasn't consent to the blood gushing out of my head.
 
VanceMack said:
Its really a matter of semantics, isnt it? The question simply is is it life or not. If it isnt it has no rights. If it is, we are advocating slaughter for the sake of convenience.
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Of course it's life. Otherwise we couldn't *kill* it. That it is living is kind of irrelevant since we kill "life" pretty indiscriminately all the time.
 
rivrrat said:
No, you consent to the higher RISK of injury should you happen to get into an accident. We ALL consent, or accept would be a better term, the risk of an accident when we get into a vehicle. That doesn't mean we're consenting to an accident itself. Or to injuries. Seatbelt or no. I fully agree that not wearing a seatbelt is just as silly as not wearing a condom. But that still doesn't mean that you've consented to have your head bashed through the windshield. I've been there, done that. I know I sure as **** didn't consent to the gash on my forehead. :lol: Stupid not to wear the belt? Without a doubt. Still wasn't consent to the blood gushing out of my head.
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implied consent. :ssst:
 
rivrrat said:
Of course it's life. Otherwise we couldn't *kill* it. That it is living is kind of irrelevant since we kill "life" pretty indiscriminately all the time.
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Irrelevant..I suppose...to everyone except the millions of 'life' (babies) that are slaughtered because mommy and daddy did a ****ty job of planning and now have to be 'inconvenienced. And hell...since its so indiscriminate (and apparently irrelelevant) why stop prior to birth? I mean...hell if a couple is going along great...good careers...nice home...but then suddenly are unemployed and facing losing a house...hell...killing off one of the inconvenient lives would be a great and noble sacrifice...maybe dust the 12 year old...hell...they are expensive at that age...
 
rivrrat said:
The implied consent is to the risk, not the outcome. When you fly on a plane, you don't consent to falling from the sky in a buring mass of twisted metal.
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ahh but I have to deal with the consequences of such a result. I can't "abort" the crash.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
ahh but I have to deal with the consequences of such a result. I can't "abort" the crash.
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You can seek treatment for your injuries (if you survive). Every action we take - ever single ****ing one - CAN have negative consequences. That doesn't mean that we can't do our best to remedy those negative consequences. In fact, it's the most responsible thing TO do. It would stupid beyond reason for someone to just go "oh, thems the breaks" every time something "bad" happened to them and do nothing to remedy the situation.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
ahh but I have to deal with the consequences of such a result. I can't "abort" the crash.
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You just don'tget it,.... "having sex is like driving a car."

When you chuz to have sex,... you no more consent to getting pregnant than a person who chuzes to drive a car consents to an accident..... In either ****ing case, we have the right to deny the personhood to others who we feel are a threat to our safety and KILL them for getting in our way of where we are trying to go!
 
rivrrat said:
You can seek treatment for your injuries (if you survive). Every action we take - ever single ****ing one - CAN have negative consequences. That doesn't mean that we can't do our best to remedy those negative consequences. In fact, it's the most responsible thing TO do. It would stupid beyond reason for someone to just go "oh, thems the breaks" every time something "bad" happened to them and do nothing to remedy the situation.
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you can seek "treatment" for the mommy blues as well. ;)
 
Pregnancy is not some disease that needs to be treated. It is not equitable to being injured. Driving a car and riding on a plane to not accurately compare with pregnancy and sex. The purpose of sex is to make babies, sure 99% of the time people have sex because it feels good and not for children. But regardless, sex exists to make kids. Cars exist to get us from point A to point B. Cars do not exist for the purpose of getting in accidents.

Pregnancy is not a disease, and "treating" it directly results in the death of an innocent life.
 
digsbe said:
Pregnancy is not some disease that needs to be treated. It is not equitable to being injured. Driving a car and riding on a plane to not accurately compare with pregnancy and sex. The purpose of sex is to make babies, sure 99% of the time people have sex because it feels good and not for children. But regardless, sex exists to make kids. Cars exist to get us from point A to point B. Cars do not exist for the purpose of getting in accidents.

Pregnancy is not a disease, and "treating" it directly results in the death of an innocent life.
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That's all very well stated,... but try to remember; you are expecting a woman who claims to have killed three of her children with abortion,.... to surrender her justifications and (though twisted) lines of reason and see her actions in the same light that we do.

I have to wonder (and I remind myself more and more often) "what do we have to gain by doing so?"
 
digsbe said:
Pregnancy is not some disease that needs to be treated.
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Disease, no. Condition, yes.

It is not equitable to being injured. Driving a car and riding on a plane to not accurately compare with pregnancy and sex. The purpose of sex is to make babies, sure 99% of the time people have sex because it feels good and not for children. But regardless, sex exists to make kids. Cars exist to get us from point A to point B. Cars do not exist for the purpose of getting in accidents.
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Sex doesn't 'exist for' anything. Sex is just something we do. And well over 99% of the time, we do not engage in sex to have children. Just like we do not drive cars to get into accidents.
 
Chuz Life said:
That's all very well stated,... but try to remember; you are expecting a woman who claims to have killed three of her children with abortion,.... to surrender her justifications and (though twisted) lines of reason and see her actions in the same light that we do.

I have to wonder (and I remind myself more and more often) "what do we have to gain by doing so?"
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I think this is where we are going to have to disagree. Honestly I don't think it's good to call out other posters or claim debating with them is a lost cause.

I don't think we should ever give up. We have a family friend who was an unwed teen mother. She aborted her child and later saw the error of her ways. Most people aren't going to change their minds based on what people on the internet say. But it's still good to debate and at least try to get people to understand our logic and reasoning behind being pro life.

rivrrat said:
Disease, no. Condition, yes.
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It's a temporary condition though that is never meant to be a life long thing. It isn't a chronic condition, and by nature is designed to end within a matter of months.
Sex doesn't 'exist for' anything. Sex is just something we do. And well over 99% of the time, we do not engage in sex to have children. Just like we do not drive cars to get into accidents.
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Sex does exist for the purpose of reproduction. Whether you believe in evolution or creationism, sex was either designed or evolved to be a way to continue the species. Sex has a purpose, and it's purpose is to create children. Again, cars exist for getting us to point A to point B and not for accidents.
 
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digsbe said:
I think this is where we are going to have to disagree. Honestly I don't think it's good to call out other posters or claim debating with them is a lost cause.

I don't think we should ever give up. We have a family friend who was an unwed teen mother. She aborted her child and later saw the error of her ways. Most people aren't going to change their minds based on what people on the internet say. But it's still good to debate and at least try to get people to understand our logic and reasoning behind being pro life.
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I understand the logic and reasoning behind "pro-life". I used to be a very adamant "pro-lifer". Then I educated myself.

And, quite frankly, I couldn't care less what any individual feels about abortion. I completely support people thinking that abortion is wrong for them. What I do not support is any effort to remove that legal choice from ME.
 
digsbe said:
I think this is where we are going to have to disagree. Honestly I don't think it's good to call out other posters or claim debating with them is a lost cause.

I don't think we should ever give up. We have a family friend who was an unwed teen mother. She aborted her child and later saw the error of her ways. Most people aren't going to change their minds based on what people on the internet say. But it's still good to debate and at least try to get people to understand our logic and reasoning behind being pro life.
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I can't argue against your last point.
 
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