Everyone Who’s Been Charged as a Result of the Mueller Investigation

[beefheart]

So I guess this logic gets Adolf Hitler off the hook. He didn't murder Jews. He only told others to do it. Of course, they weren't obligated to do it either. :mrgreen:

Charles Manson told others to kill people, he didn't do it.....ergo....:lamo

 

[ecofarm]

WOW I wait for you to jump off the cliff when your boss tells you to. By By

Are you generally anti RICO statutes, like a gang thing, or just in the case of a politician you like?

You're claiming even if Trump directed illegal acts, he cannot be held responsible because he got someone else to do it.

I'm curious. Is that ganged-up or just political hackery?

 

[PoliSciXtina]

Who does Mueller have to testify against Trump, on anything????? Mueller has no one, all the people he rounded up are convicted liars. Is Mueller going to use Coen as a witness against Trump that Trump ordered him to pay off people? Really. Trump denies it. Further if your boss told you to jump off a cliff, are you obligated to do so and kill yourself?

Lmao. Yeah, everyone is a big fat liar except trump. He’s the innocent, truthful, perfect one. Lmao. Delusional. Why don’t you call up mueller and ask him all these questions ?


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[PIPEWRENCH]

If your customer told you to break the law and you agreed, you and your customer would both be guilty of conspiracy to break the law. That's why Trump is considered an "unindicted co-conspirator."

If the person ordering the contractor/employee/hitman to commit a crime was innocent, just about every mob boss would still be free.

No. The customer 99% of the time does not want to break the law. They have a problem and want to solve it. They may have ideas that they present to me. I cannot tell you how many times I have dealt with home owners who suggest a solution that is not up to code or have bought parts that were not up to code. I very rarely have had a problem with a customer once I have explained that their idea does not meet health or fire codes as well as plumbing codes. In most cases the customer was not trying to break the law they just want to fix the problem. I have had customers that I have just walked away from who were adamant they wanted it done their way rather than the right way. I would say they were less than 1 in 1000 of my customers. Most people hire a professional to do the job right. Not to screw it up and get them in trouble.

I would bet Trump did not order him to break the law. Trump most likely told him to fix the problem and assumed that a good lawyer would do just that within the law.

 

[PoliSciXtina]

No. The customer 99% of the time does not want to break the law. They have a problem and want to solve it. They may have ideas that they present to me. I cannot tell you how many times I have dealt with home owners who suggest a solution that is not up to code or have bought parts that were not up to code. I very rarely have had a problem with a customer once I have explained that their idea does not meet health or fire codes as well as plumbing codes. In most cases the customer was not trying to break the law they just want to fix the problem. I have had customers that I have just walked away from who were adamant they wanted it done their way rather than the right way. I would say they were less than 1 in 1000 of my customers. Most people hire a professional to do the job right. Not to screw it up and get them in trouble.

I would bet Trump did not order him to break the law. Trump most likely told him to fix the problem and assumed that a good lawyer would do just that within the law.

You really want to believe so badly that trump is not a bad guy. That he is not a criminal. But every word out of his mouth, every crazy action of his.. and every single LIE or cover up proves otherwise. I will ask you... months ago trump was lying to everyone saying he had no idea about these payments. Now the story changes, much like it did about the trump tower meeting (aka the meeting about “adoptions”). Why do you think that is? Could it be that trump knew it was illegal or wrong, and why he tried to cover it up? if he’s such an honest guy, why not tell us the truth in the first place. It just makes no sense. The ever-changing narratives are not plausible. Most people tend to question things that aren’t plausible.


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[Rexedgar]

No. The customer 99% of the time does not want to break the law. They have a problem and want to solve it. They may have ideas that they present to me. I cannot tell you how many times I have dealt with home owners who suggest a solution that is not up to code or have bought parts that were not up to code. I very rarely have had a problem with a customer once I have explained that their idea does not meet health or fire codes as well as plumbing codes. In most cases the customer was not trying to break the law they just want to fix the problem. I have had customers that I have just walked away from who were adamant they wanted it done their way rather than the right way. I would say they were less than 1 in 1000 of my customers. Most people hire a professional to do the job right. Not to screw it up and get them in trouble.

I would bet Trump did not order him to break the law. Trump most likely told him to fix the problem and assumed that a good lawyer would do just that within the law.

:stop:

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You really want to believe so badly that trump is not a bad guy. That he is not a criminal. But every word out of his mouth, every crazy action of his.. and every single LIE or cover up proves otherwise. I will ask you... months ago trump was lying to everyone saying he had no idea about these payments. Now the story changes, much like it did about the trump tower meeting (aka the meeting about “adoptions”). Why do you think that is? Could it be that trump knew it was illegal or wrong, and why he tried to cover it up? if he’s such an honest guy, why not tell us the truth in the first place. It just makes no sense. The ever-changing narratives are not plausible. Most people tend to question things that aren’t plausible.


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I have worked for people like Trump. They are hit with problems 24/7. The most he can do 95+% of the time is forward it to someone under him to solve or fix.

I know just from working with small contractors with 5 or 6 remodel jobs going talking to him was close to impossible. While I was trying to discuss just a coupe of plumbing issues with him the phone never stopped ringing. He would look at the caller ID and say I have to take this one can you hold a minute. He would hang up and before I could start to talk the phone would ring again. Finally he would say hey I trust your judgement to me can you take care of it. In most cases I would say yes because I could. When asked 6 months later about that incident you know what he is going to say. I didn't know anything about it. Most people cannot understand from their perspective that he didn't remember and just told someone to handle it because he does that a thousand times a day.

 

[year2late]

There's a double standard.

How so?

Seems like one side likes to yell "lock her up" but doesn't like it when their side is being locked up for crimes they actually committed.

 

[year2late]

I wish y'all stop with the paywall crap.

Does this help?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

 

[EnigmaO01]

I have hired lawyers over the year. I expect them to take care of legal matters legally. They have always advised me if what I wanted to do was within the law or not. Any lawyer who violates the law is responsible for his actions. He is the expert or professional.

As a plumber home owners have asked me many times to do something that violate plumbing code. It is up to me as the professional and expert to advise them of the law and to not break the law just because they want something done. Most of customers were not aware of the plumbing codes and trusted me as the expert in my field. Trump is not responsible for a lawyer breaking the law any more than a home owner is responsible for me not following plumbing code when doing plumbing repairs to their home.

People especially experts and professionals receiving pay need to start taking responsibility for their actions and stop blaming the person who hired them.

What if your customers tells you to break the law and you do? And furthermore what if you are known as the fix it guy as in you'll do whatever it takes to fix the problem regardless of the law.

Trump was the customer and and Cohen was the fixer. That's where your analogy is flawed as Trump is also culpable.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

What if your customers tells you to break the law and you do? And furthermore what if you are known as the fix it guy as in you'll do whatever it takes to fix the problem regardless of the law.

Trump was the customer and and Cohen was the fixer. That's where your analogy is flawed as Trump is also culpable.

That is your opinion. None of us knows what was said between them. The ones I worked for were delegating non stop the entire time I was around them. I can almost hear him now. Another bimbo I screwed is now causing problems you are my lawyer deal with her or I will hire someone who will. That is probably the extent of his dealings with the situation. He may not even known which one or cared. Just like JFK he could care less. She was just another peace of ass now trying to get rich when she found out he could care less about her. Now the lawyer handling it illegally is his bag. He is the professional and should know what is right and wrong. I personally think the lawyer just flat out screwed up.

 

[Athanasius68]

I see... this is your standard clap-trap you will push in all threads.

*edit... and you gotta little buddy using the same blind crap talking point. :lol:



The investigation hasn't released its findings. These are folk where just in the way of the investigation so far.

You can keep your cute unicorn blinders on though. It makes your posts seem less born out of stupid ignorance because they are of a funny ignorance.

Its standard claptrap as it happens to be true.

 

[apdst]

How so?

Seems like one side likes to yell "lock her up" but doesn't like it when their side is being locked up for crimes they actually committed.

Clinton actually committed a crime.

 

[prometeus]

I have worked for people like Trump. They are hit with problems 24/7. The most he can do 95+% of the time is forward it to someone under him to solve or fix.

I know just from working with small contractors with 5 or 6 remodel jobs going talking to him was close to impossible. While I was trying to discuss just a coupe of plumbing issues with him the phone never stopped ringing. He would look at the caller ID and say I have to take this one can you hold a minute. He would hang up and before I could start to talk the phone would ring again. Finally he would say hey I trust your judgement to me can you take care of it. In most cases I would say yes because I could. When asked 6 months later about that incident you know what he is going to say. I didn't know anything about it. Most people cannot understand from their perspective that he didn't remember and just told someone to handle it because he does that a thousand times a day.

Bull crap just like your previous post. Sure some customers will ask for stupid stuff to get done largely because they have no clue. Now tell me, have you ever done new construction for a developer? How many of them have asked you to do something against code?
This asshole was running to be President and before that he claimed to be a very successful business man. Are you that gullible that you believe that he knows nothing or is it just partisan dishonesty?

 

[Todzilla]

And I find it funny that “collusion “ is the only crime they talk about. As if mueller would come out with all of his evidence before concluding the probe. Do people here not know how investigators work? Plus Is everyone forgetting about obstruction of justice? I haven’t! That’s certainly impeachable. Just because mueller hasn’t concluded anything yet, they think that means he’s exonerated , and that mueller has found nothing, lol! If he’s found nothing, why is the investigation still in progress?

"Collusion" is not a legal term, so Guiliani and Trump tweets can define it to mean whatever they want. Conspiracy is the real charge and Trump supporters are way too comfy that this won't happen.

 

[prometeus]

That is your opinion. None of us knows what was said between them.

You should listen to the tape then.

I can almost hear him now.

That is called partisan delusion.

Just like JFK he could care less.

At least JFK was intelligent. This guy is a moron.

She was just another peace of ass

That is possible, especially for a decent family man.

 

[tres borrachos]

I got 1 free article left, so likely it is a paywall he just exceeded his VISIT Limit?


As for reading the actual article...or breakout.


ZERO American's Charged with any offense in relation to Working, Plotting, agreeing ti affect the 2016 elections.

I realize you can't access the article, but you can surely use Google, which will tell you that Mueller hasn't finished his investigation yet.

Keep hope alive. I think it's all Trump Fan Nation has left at this point.

 

[Nickyjo]

And not one person charged with "collusion".

Don't think "collusion" is in the criminal code.

 

[Nickyjo]

I have hired lawyers over the year. I expect them to take care of legal matters legally. They have always advised me if what I wanted to do was within the law or not. Any lawyer who violates the law is responsible for his actions. He is the expert or professional.

As a plumber home owners have asked me many times to do something that violate plumbing code. It is up to me as the professional and expert to advise them of the law and to not break the law just because they want something done. Most of customers were not aware of the plumbing codes and trusted me as the expert in my field. Trump is not responsible for a lawyer breaking the law any more than a home owner is responsible for me not following plumbing code when doing plumbing repairs to their home.

People especially experts and professionals receiving pay need to start taking responsibility for their actions and stop blaming the person who hired them.

Probably a slight difference between a homeowner not knowing the plumbing codes, and a presidential candidate not knowing that paying off significant sums to buy silence shortly before an election was fishy.

It's not as if Trump has shown great respect for the legalities even when he has to have been aware of them: "Gee, your honor, how was I to know that grabbing women without their consent was against the law?... And the emoluments clause, isn't emolument something Melania puts on her skin?... You mean Trump University actually had to have classes, professors, and stuff as advertised?... We ratified a treaty that requires us not to return refugees to danger? Lucky I wasn't in the room when they agreed to that... Yes, I am the "law and order" president, your honor. That means I give the orders as to which laws to obey or ignore. And isn't your name Curiel? Are you even allowed to hear these cases?"

 

[Exactice]

How many free articles are you supposed to get? I can't remember the last time I was able to read an NYT article.

DUNNO, I just noticed it when I clicked it, I am assuming 2. So maybe another time in your Forums career lol you clicked on a hotlinked article and that ate up a subscription?

 

[Bullseye]

DUNNO, I just oticed it when I clicked it, I am assuming 2. So maybe another time in your Forums career lol you clicked on a hotlinked article and that ate up a subscription?

I think that's true. I must have read something from them over the last dozen years or so.

 

[Exactice]

I realize you can't access the article, but you can surely use Google, which will tell you that Mueller hasn't finished his investigation yet.

Keep hope alive. I think it's all Trump Fan Nation has left at this point.

???I could Access it, per the I have 1 free article.

As I sated "FROM READING the ACTUAL Arictlce

What crime implicate trump? With Russian Collusion? Which person?

 

[Exactice]

here ya go... I took a picture just for you.

View attachment 67245921

PoweRob!! Thanks I was just trying to do this!


NOW not to you but to the others.


26 Russians in this total - 12 Intelligence officers, 1 Linguist and 13 Russian National - Charged with Conspiracies, Obstruction, financial crimes ( WE KNOW this as 17 Intelligence Agencies stated Russians TRIED to interfere)


8 Americans - Lying to Congress, Bank fraud, Lying to FBI, Identify Fraud. NONE of this connects them to the ABOVE charged RUSSIANS

Of the 8 Americans NONE are Charged with Conspiracy against the US.

With that NONE indicate a collusion, Tie, Plot, ploy, agreement, Pay for Play, Logan act committed by these listed.

NONE on the WHOLE list implicates, Indicates, ties TRUMP or his campaign to colluding, agree, plotting, with Russia (YET).....We do NOT know what Mueller has...

Soooo I am GLAD all these people are getting their adjudication (GUILTY or NOT) That is the process. BUT if the "assumption" is this indicates collusion? I do NOT see a single point? Please clarify anyone?

 

[tres borrachos]

???I could Access it, per the I have 1 free article.

As I sated "FROM READING the ACTUAL Arictlce

What crime implicate trump? With Russian Collusion? Which person?

Why are you asking me these questions? Did you not read the part about the investigation not being over?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Bull crap just like your previous post. Sure some customers will ask for stupid stuff to get done largely because they have no clue. Now tell me, have you ever done new construction for a developer? How many of them have asked you to do something against code?
This asshole was running to be President and before that he claimed to be a very successful business man. Are you that gullible that you believe that he knows nothing or is it just partisan dishonesty?

Yes I did new construction for developers. Some of the largest in the country. No they did not ask me to violate code. I would not do it either way. Most of the time they built outside city limits and then annexed in to the city to get around city codes. They also used a lot of illegals to do their dirty work. As a licensed professional I could be prosecuted if someone got hurt. The illegals were hard to prosecute because they simply went back to Mexico and also criminal charges are hard to levy against untrained workers. The other thing is the owners and top guys of the developments rarely knew anything actually happening on the actual jobsite. A lot of times the people like Trump never set foot on the property. He was in a penthouse in another state delegating.