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Events From Nen Call To Verbal Argument

Oceaura

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At beginning of call Z states the best address he can give is 1111 RVC and this is because he is parked on TTL facing East. He is looking at T through his rear view mirror with all his exterior lights off. We know from the following dialogue:

From timeline of call recording lasting 4:16--

:52 T is staring at him.

1:02 T is at clubhouse

1:03 T is going towards him

1:09 States T has something in his hand in waistband

1:12 Glovebox or other compartment opens. Z is getting his flashlight or gun or both. His holster does not have a top strap and not attached to his belt.

1:27 T is coming to check him out--keeping in mind by Z's own description T is not moving very fast. He is moving from clubouse from west to east on TTL where Z is parked with lights off. It would be much easier for Z to see behind him with the headlights off.

Since Z is parked in T's walking path back to Brandi's Z assumes a nefarious motive on T's part not knowing he is simply heading home.

1:30 T has something in his hand--we now know it was his phone as Z does not see the earpiece and ignorant of the fact T is on the phone

1:43 These a-holes always get away

1:54 gives directions to location of his truck. This is before T ran and important because he gives the exact same directions after T ran proving 2 items: never needed to exit his truck for directions and his truck was parked in same location before and after T ran.

2:11 T is running down towards back entrance and this is on TTL so he is heading south before ducking between the buildings.

2:13 Door opens. He exits holding his phone and flashlight leaving the keys in the ignition and his holstered gun on his hip.

2:18 Door shuts while Key In Ignition Warning is sounding--he left his keys inside his truck yet they were found at the top of the sidewalk between the buildings after the shooting

2:19 wind static begins as Z chases him

2:30 says "okay" in response to dispatch saying we dont need you to follow. At this point he is at the top of the top of the sidewalk that runs between the backs of the buildings and is between TTL and RVC. He turns around and heads back to his truck. As he is heading back puts his flashlight in his coat

2:46-47 wind static stops because he is back near his truck and you can hear the rack sliding on his gun. Indicates both hands are free so he is holding his phone to his ear with his shoulder. (Audio comparison of the metal clicks on his call to a kel-tec training racking the slide is available)

He moved away from his truck at a jog for 11 seconds and it took him 16 seconds walking the return trip. He is outside but stationary as no more wind static is heard.

2:50 you hear him slapping his flashlight with his hands so he is still holding his phone with his shoulder.

3:20 highlights the mailboxes as a landmark and you can see them if you are standing near where he parked his truck but not if you are on the sidewalk between TTL and RVC. This helps prove Z's location about one minute before the call ends.

3:23-3:24 says "They'll see my truck." As dispatch begins talking, Z at the same time says "The keys are in my truck."

3:54 cancels fixed meeting location at mailboxes-requests police call him on cell.

Around 4:12 into the call hangs up with dispatch.

He puts his phone in his pocket, opens his truck door and adds one bullet to his gun magazine because after putting one bullet in the chamber it left one bullet short of a full magazine. Safe to say he did not carry it loaded because it has no external safety. After putting his gun back in his holster he grabs his keys and walks East holding his flashlight and keys. He walks to the top of the sidewalk and continues East to RVC. He stops to look North and South and starts walking back West to the top of the sidewalk. Once there he heads South and after passing the first building turns West to TTL and turns North heading back to his truck.

Back to T and his movements. After he runs South on TTL he turns left between the first and second building so now he is running East towards RVC. He cuts across RVC and now turns left heading North on S. Oregon Ave. So he left the gated community. (Keeping in mind he ran away from someone in a truck it is safe to assume he thought Z would keep driving which is why he first ran down TTL.)

T stops short of the intersection of S. Oregon and Oregon ave and heads SSW back into the complex. He is assuming the safest route home is to go back where he last saw Z's truck assuming Z is out driving looking for him and he has no idea Z is on foot. He heads back across RVC and gets to the top of the sidewalk that is between RVC and TTL heading South.

At this point T is heading North on TTL, gets near his truck and sees T coming from the RVC side of the sidewalk. As T gets to the top of the sidewalk and continues South, Z appears behind him and the verbal argument begins.

This is based on available info and look forward to criticism and enlightenment on any new information. To say the least it will be interesting to see how Omara handles the discrepancies in Z's different versions.
 

ABC10

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OMG, is O'Mara great or what. He is making Bernie, Guy and Balding guy look like jerks. O'Mara West - calm, knowledgeable Professionals. The State got so little they bring in the Communication Deputy of 911 and 311 to try and get a case. I am a fan of JVM but wish she was on the right side in this tragedy.
 

sharon

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OMG, is O'Mara great or what. He is making Bernie, Guy and Balding guy look like jerks. O'Mara West - calm, knowledgeable Professionals. The State got so little they bring in the Communication Deputy of 911 and 311 to try and get a case. I am a fan of JVM but wish she was on the right side in this tragedy.

I disagree.. I think the Defense made a VERY poor showing.
 

Paperview

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They were overruled NINE times and smacked by the judge repeatedly for being total **** ups in not knowing the difference between Opening Arguments and Closing Arguments.

Anyone who thinks the Defense did a good job today is delusional.
 

ABC10

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They were overruled NINE times and smacked by the judge repeatedly for being total **** ups in not knowing the difference between Opening Arguments and Closing Arguments.

Anyone who thinks the Defense did a good job today is delusional.

I know for a fact that I am not delusional. Throwing personal insults not only weakens the debate but demonstrates a total lack of ideas nor advances the discussion.
 

Paperview

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First Guide to knowing if you're delusional: If you think the term "anyone" is a personal insult.
 

Excon

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First Guide to knowing if you're delusional: If you think the term "anyone" is a personal insult.

Still spewing irrelevant bs, I see. :doh
 

AlfredENeuman

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First Guide to knowing if you're delusional: If you think the term "anyone" is a personal insult.

I thought the state was very effective today and if they get the evidence in tomorrow of Zimmerman's prior pattern of calls to 311, I think it's going to be very powerful evidence against the defendant in establishing his state of mind.

Also, did you catch where they show that from the time Zimmerman hung up the phone to the time Rachel hung up the phone, Zimmerman has a FULL TWO MINUTES of unaccounted for time. This is after he hung up and said he was already on his way back to the truck.

That right there, just those two minutes, are enough to prove he didn't walk back to his truck. And if he didn't, the rest of his story falls apart completely. I don't know where the two of them actually walked after this, but one witness saw them running...NORTH...before the shooting.

All we can tell is that he lied to the police and it's not going well for him.
 

sharon

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OMara didn't do well with this guy either.

 

Oceaura

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I thought the state was very effective today and if they get the evidence in tomorrow of Zimmerman's prior pattern of calls to 311, I think it's going to be very powerful evidence against the defendant in establishing his state of mind.

Also, did you catch where they show that from the time Zimmerman hung up the phone to the time Rachel hung up the phone, Zimmerman has a FULL TWO MINUTES of unaccounted for time. This is after he hung up and said he was already on his way back to the truck.

That right there, just those two minutes, are enough to prove he didn't walk back to his truck. And if he didn't, the rest of his story falls apart completely. I don't know where the two of them actually walked after this, but one witness saw them running...NORTH...before the shooting.

All we can tell is that he lied to the police and it's not going well for him.

By his first statement he said he began walking back to his truck when dispatch said "we dont need you to do that." More than 4 minutes elapsed between then and the verbal argument.
 

Eighty Deuce

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.......... He puts his phone in his pocket, opens his truck door and adds one bullet to his gun magazine because after putting one bullet in the chamber it left one bullet short of a full magazine. Safe to say he did not carry it loaded because it has no external safety. After putting his gun back in his holster he grabs his keys and walks East holding his flashlight and keys. ......

This is complete horse manure. His gun has a long-pull "safety". Later testimony will show that many often carry it with a round chambered. It is highly unlikely that Z would have chosen to chamber a round at that moment, and then add another round. The far more legitimate explanation was that he carried it that way.

As the trial has started the rest of your post is further useless uninformed speculation
 

Oceaura

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This is complete horse manure. His gun has a long-pull "safety". Later testimony will show that many often carry it with a round chambered. It is highly unlikely that Z would have chosen to chamber a round at that moment, and then add another round. The far more legitimate explanation was that he carried it that way.

As the trial has started the rest of your post is further useless uninformed speculation

Show us where he carried it loaded. Not sure what your complaint is about the fact is it has no external safety.
 

tashatexas77048

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What is patently clear are two things: One: It is chasing, and following without regard to a "safe distance" when someone runs into darkness and you go in that same direction, as Zimmerman.admitted to doing.

Two: NHW are told to "watch and report" so what watching and reporting did Zimmerman accomplish outside of his car for four minutes and in the dark with what he said was a non working flashlight?

If he had good intentions when he jumped out and went in the same direction as Martin, then his good intentions evaporate when you realize how long he STAYED out of his car without reporting anything. What was the continued need to remain outside of his car if indeed, he could not see?
 

Excon

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What is patently clear are two things: One: It is chasing, and following without regard to a "safe distance" when someone runs into darkness and you go in that same direction, as Zimmerman.admitted to doing.
Wrong! There was no chasing.
He did remain a safe distance even though he did not have to.
Your description of what Zimmerman did, and what he actually did, are two different things.


Two: NHW are told to "watch and report" so what watching and reporting did Zimmerman accomplish outside of his car for four minutes and in the dark with what he said was a non working flashlight?
Doesn't matter. He was not on NW that night.


If he had good intentions when he jumped out and went in the same direction as Martin, then his good intentions evaporate when you realize how long he STAYED out of his car without reporting anything. What was the continued need to remain outside of his car if indeed, he could not see?
Wrong.
 

tashatexas77048

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Let me repeat this for intelligent folks. Admitting to " going in the same direction" as someone who ran into the dark, off the street and in between houses is NOT keeping a safe distance because he could be ambushed which is what he claimed so HIS OWN DEFIANCE OF A PROGRAM HE CREATED SHOWS ILL INTENT TOWARDS MARTIN. He was armed when he followed Martin so even an ambush would be of no consequence to Zimmerman which is why the possibility didn't frighten him. Further, it is not possible to watch and report in the dark so if Zimmerman couldn't do that part of his duties either he should have immediately gone back to his car.
 

year2late

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Let me repeat this for intelligent folks. Admitting to " going in the same direction" as someone who ran into the dark, off the street and in between houses is NOT keeping a safe distance because he could be ambushed which is what he claimed so HIS OWN DEFIANCE OF A PROGRAM HE CREATED SHOWS ILL INTENT TOWARDS MARTIN. He was armed when he followed Martin so even an ambush would be of no consequence to Zimmerman which is why the possibility didn't frighten him. Further, it is not possible to watch and report in the dark so if Zimmerman couldn't do that part of his duties either he should have immediately gone back to his car.

From the the witness that described the NW program and the HOA president...it all indicates not following and staying safe distance are paramount.

I am not sure if it showed "ill will" towards trayvon or just overzealous outside of guidelines of NW and common sense.
 

Oceaura

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From the the witness that described the NW program and the HOA president...it all indicates not following and staying safe distance are paramount.

I am not sure if it showed "ill will" towards trayvon or just overzealous outside of guidelines of NW and common sense.

The ill will is demonstrated by convicting T as a criminal. We could all find it understandable on
some level for Z to be suspicious of people he didnt know due to his obsession with patrolling. However, he did not find T suspicious. He entered the situation convinced in his own mind T was a criminal who always get away. He sure made sure T couldnt leave his sight again.
 

Eighty Deuce

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Show us where he carried it loaded. Not sure what your complaint is about the fact is it has no external safety.

It was mentioned in the opening. However, it will come out in trial. What is fabricated is the assertion that he chambered a round that night, as he exited his car, and then went to the added effort to drop the magazine, and insert another round. As I said, many carry it with a round chambered, and a re-filled magazine.

It will come out in court later. No need for you to fabricate things.
 

Eighty Deuce

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The ill will is demonstrated by convicting T as a criminal. We could all find it understandable on
some level for Z to be suspicious of people he didnt know due to his obsession with patrolling. However, he did not find T suspicious. He entered the situation convinced in his own mind T was a criminal who always get away. He sure made sure T couldnt leave his sight again.

Here you go making stuff up again. This kind of posting is worthless. I won't be wasting more time with this stupidity.
 

What if...?

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By his first statement he said he began walking back to his truck when dispatch said "we dont need you to do that." More than 4 minutes elapsed between then and the verbal argument.

Pretty sure he says he was walking away from his trucl when he said ok but continued on to RVC because he wanted to get an address and didnt know the name of twin trees.

Then hung up at RVC and THEN started waking back. Something about whacking a flashlight.

Still almost two minutes to cover a distance covered in 26 seconds in the walkthrough.
 

505

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Oh nice, Thunder's back again eh?
 

What if...?

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I'm too lazy to start a thread, so I'll do this here.

I think the pross is gojng to go at it like this:

They're going to suggest that Z went down between the buildings.

That he came upon M in the dark and reflexively went for his gun.

That M saw this and believed Z was pulling a gun on him and THAT is why he attacked him. They fought for control of the gun, Z won, M died.

They're going to try to present it from the perspective of someone who doesn't have a "clean" self defense claim, and knows it.

What lie would they make up in that situation?

If you look at it like a hard-nosed old detective Zs story REEKS.

"Raining blows that felt like bricks"

Slamming of head over and over like his head was going to explode.

The almost erotic going for the gun and trapping the arm thing.

"You're gonna die tonight" whispered in his ear

Going to get an utterly useless address

Reaching for his phone at the crucial moment.

IF, and I say if, z is lying, its something like this he's lying about.
 

Paperview

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I'm too lazy to start a thread, so I'll do this here.

I think the pross is gojng to go at it like this:

They're going to suggest that Z went down between the buildings.

That he came upon M in the dark and reflexively went for his gun.

That M saw this and believed Z was pulling a gun on him and THAT is why he attacked him. They fought for control of the gun, Z won, M died.

They're going to try to present it from the perspective of someone who doesn't have a "clean" self defense claim, and knows it.

What lie would they make up in that situation?

If you look at it like a hard-nosed old detective Zs story REEKS.

"Raining blows that felt like bricks"

Slamming of head over and over like his head was going to explode.

The almost erotic going for the gun and trapping the arm thing.

"You're gonna die tonight" whispered in his ear

Going to get an utterly useless address

Reaching for his phone at the crucial moment.

IF, and I say if, z is lying, its something like this he's lying about.

"The almost erotic going for the gun and trapping the arm thing."

That cinching TM's hand with his Armpit of Steel thing really gets me.

It defies all logic not to mention the physical impossibility of it.

As I noted earlier - put your left hand under your armpit as Z described.

Hold it with all your might to prevent its movement.

Now reach to your back pocket area with your right arm.

What happens?
 
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