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Evaluating my beliefs and a little confused

Political values dont have to be set in stone, and in fact shouldnt be. They should be re-evaluated constantly on receiving new information. That is what information is for.

As you see, I dont label myself at all. It says disclosed, under lean on my profile. This is on purpose, so I can remain fluid and flexible, and base my opinions on information and experience, rather than trying to fit myself into a label.

That said do you think the government responsibly uses the resources of the American people in a timely and efficient manner necessary to meet the needs of the people it (supposedly) serves?
 
That said do you think the government responsibly uses the resources of the American people in a timely and efficient manner necessary to meet the needs of the people it (supposedly) serves?

That depends on which governments. Some blatently do not, while others make the best decisions they can under whatever circumstances exist at any time. With human beings being as chaotic as they are, even the best thought out plans and decisions can fail, because of political reactions, actions... from the people in general. Luck does play a part with a government making successful decisions, which will in fact benefit the people, but a good government has more chance of having the type of luck that will benefit the people, than a corrupt one.
 
That depends on which governments. Some blatently do not, while others make the best decisions they can under whatever circumstances exist at any time. With human beings being as chaotic as they are, even the best thought out plans and decisions can fail, because of political reactions, actions... from the people in general. Luck does play a part with a government making successful decisions, which will in fact benefit the people, but a good government has more chance of having the type of luck that will benefit the people, than a corrupt one.

We (the United States) is fast approaching 14 TRILLION dollars in debt.

Money well spent in your opinion?

Can we afford to spend more?
 
Can we afford to spend more?

I think changes can always be made, to make it better spent, whether this means spending more or not.

''Money well spent in your opinion?''
Not all of it. And every country is in debt. One has to wonder if this is necessary. I dont have an answer for that.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. I can't really quote every message that was addressed to me so I'll just give general statements.

@Tucker- I have considered a more states' power type of government with a weaker central government. My only concern is that it would not unite the states and that the country would seem more like a federation of independent countries under a federal government. I think some things should be uniform throughout the US as a country, like uniform standards, policies, and other things. I do support states' rights and I personally believe that when it comes to social issues the states should be the ones that have power over those and not the federal government. However, I do think things like socialized healthcare should be uniform and equal throughout the states and that certain policies and programs should be available to every American in every state.

@Chuz- I understand that the federal government and state governments are extremely inefficient, and that's why I support massive reform when it comes to the bureaucratic waste that the government throws away money on. I do believe that as the current government stands, it is highly inefficient. With my opinions I also believe that reform on how we do things should be made so that we can have efficient and cheap programs compared to bloated and inefficient ones. I know many conservatives say that we cannot afford social programs, but I personally believe that if we cut out a lot of the wast and make the system more efficient then we can afford them and maybe even have a budget surplus.

Honestly, if I were to vote today I think I would vote for a pro-life Democrat that will not sway on the issues (and yes, they are out there, several of the votes against the healthcare bill were cast by pro-life Democrats who believed that it would help fund abortion.)
 
@Tucker- I have considered a more states' power type of government with a weaker central government. My only concern is that it would not unite the states and that the country would seem more like a federation of independent countries under a federal government.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I think that greater legislative diversity would lead to a decrease in disenfranchisment and thus, greater overall contentedness with government.


I think some things should be uniform throughout the US as a country, like uniform standards, policies, and other things. I do support states' rights and I personally believe that when it comes to social issues the states should be the ones that have power over those and not the federal government. However, I do think things like socialized healthcare should be uniform and equal throughout the states and that certain policies and programs should be available to every American in every state.

I think uniformity is detrimental to the long-term survival of a large nation. There is too much philosophical diversity for uniformity over great expanses to be sustained. Things will always return to the more natural level of non-uniformity.

This can happen two ways:

1. The collapse and disbanding of the nation/empire.
2. Allowing and encouraging non-uniformity through legislative diversity and localized authority.


My stance is that this state of non-uniformity is inevitable.

By trying to encourage uniformity (with the uninteded consequence of national polarization), we are setting the tone for option 1 to be the way that this non-uniformity will occur.

Things regress towards the mean. Throughout human history, the "average" was that countries were smaller autonomous entities. Diversity was the norm. Also throughout history, empires were created where a single entity took power over a large geographical area. They would always break up eventually and things returned to "normal".

I believe the basis for this is in Evolution.

Humans are not meant to be a hive or a herd animal. We are a pack animal by nature. Our ancestral survival depended on small hunting and gathering groups. Within a smaller group, uniformity of philosophy becomes sustainable in because we are naturally inclined to have similar worldviews of a small group that we are very closely associated with. This is not to say their is uniformity in thought, even in small groups there will be diversity of thought. What I'm talking about is a shared approach in the way that we think. There will be a syncronization in the foundational views that guide our thoughts. There is a limitted range of this foundational syncronization.

This phenomenon can be directly observed in modern society by noting the geographic deliniation of many political views.

But with modern society, we have basically tried to turn ourselves into hive animals. But our natural inclinations haven't changed. We are only capable of gaining that foundational syncronicity with a small group of people. Sicne the "groups" we are encoutnering are varied from person to person and there is a lot of overlap (instead of being focussed on a single "tribe" as it was during hunting and gathering days), that foudnational syncronization will extend further out than the "tribal" level, thus causing the geographic delineations we observe today.

But the expanse of the nation is greater than the range of this syncronization. What we then have is competition between two or more foundational belief systems. Although there may be commonalities in these belief systems, they often have major differences that make them incompatible with each other.

No legislation can exist that doesn't contain these foundational beliefs. For those who are in sync with these beliefs, the legislation will be viewed positively. For those who are not in sync with it, it will be viewed negatively. No matter what legislation is enacted at teh federal level, it will breed discontent and disenfranchisement within a significant portion of the nation's population. Often it is the majority that is discontent.

I think that the best aproach to governance is to embrace these natural tendencies instead of trying to combat them. Because in the end, these natural tendencies will win out, whether we want them to or not.

That's the end of my short novel on the merits of decentralization. :2razz:
 
How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:

Hey Digsbe--I don't think you need to label yourself at all. I mainly consider myself an independent but I lean liberal so I choose that moniker to go with. I used to lean much more right and would probably have chosen conservative at that time in my life.


I think as people live and change they may tend to lean one way and then another. There are a few people who refuse to let life change the landscape of their opinions.
Those people lean ignorant. ;)
 
Chuz- I understand that the federal government and state governments are extremely inefficient, and that's why I support massive reform when it comes to the bureaucratic waste that the government throws away money on. I do believe that as the current government stands, it is highly inefficient.

Have you thought about taxation and social programs (mandated charities) undermine the genuinely charitable tendencies of the people?

Put the need for reform asside for a while and think about how much more the needs of the people would be met if the government simply rewarded and provided incentives for charitable giving,... rather than trying to confiscate our money and do our bidding without direct representation or accountability.

Look and your next paycheck and notice how the government gets its take before the ink had time to dry.

You are still young. I doubt you have ever had to meet a payroll, finance a 30 year mortgage or deal with anything biiger than a car payment.

Odds are that you will,... and here's to the hope that you will one day appreciate the fact that MY money is not your money to spend,... and neither is your money MINE.
 
There isn’t an underlying conservative opposition to government spending, even wasteful government spending. Like liberals, they're interested in promoting their moral value systems without underlying opposition to wasteful expenditures. Here’s an example: Military expenditures require significant budgetary allocations, and the internal structure of all the military departments isn’t just devoted to functions absolutely necessary for armed conflict, as there are numerous government programs for active duty and veteran personnel that would be called social welfare programs if they were provided to civilians.

The difference is that the civilian welfare user is conceptualized as a lazy thief, too sluggardly and apathetic to work, so instead devoted to living off the rewards of others who have earned them. Government subsidization of such an immoral person is itself immoral. But the military serviceman has proved his merits (even as a POG, apparently), by association with the conservative virtues of strength, self-discipline, and responsibility, all elements of the fierce warrior spirit. It’s therefore not subsidization of immoral character traits to provide him with such services.
 
digsbe, if it weren't for your social conservative values I would just go ahead and call you a liberal, but I think it would be a safe bet to call you left-leaning if you want to give a birds eye view of your stances on things. Given that, "slightly liberal" seems about right. In Canada I am considered a moderate but in the U.S. I would be considered more left-leaning. I find myself agreeing with you a lot of the time, so that is a good indication of where you fall.

Just FYI, a centrist is one who either has both liberal and conservative values on things (depending on the discussion) or they always try to be at the centre of the political spectrum. You might be quite liberal in one department and conservative in the other. If you were to take your full array of opinions on things and put them on a scale, the left-leaning and right-leaning factors would, more or less, balance each other out.

Being a moderate means you tend to avoid extremism and partisanism, and in a lot of cases are open to compromise, but you could actually end up taking either side on an issue.

If the majority of your views tend to fall to the left then I would just go ahead and call yourself left-leaning. I've met plenty of liberal Christians.
 
I would think that consistent devotion to Christianity would require some kind of communism, actually, considering the lifestyle of the apostles in the book of Acts, which Christians tell me should properly be called the Acts of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles, and not the Acts of the Apostles. What I usually hear is that it was voluntary and can’t be a political position that pertains to how everyone should live, but all of the other moral issues that the Christian Right tries to impose on everyone else (banning same-sex marriage) kind of robs that of its power.
 
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and evaluating what I believe regarding politics. Because of my Christian faith I am very socially conservative. However, I am finding myself increasingly supporting government programs and having a larger government then what most conservatives want. I am becoming more liberal when it comes to governance, but remaining socially conservative. I wouldn't describe myself as a centrist or moderate because I am finding that I am becoming more increasingly liberal when it comes to non social political stances.

What you are describing is what Moral Politics would call high scores on both the Moral Rules and the Moral Order scales. Can't help you with what to call yourself; I'm in the same quadrant, but I have quite a bit of ideological baggage that you don't want or need. "Progressive" might be an effective word for you, as the stances you are describing were born out of the Progressive movement, before many of the socially liberal stances you oppose stopped being unthinkable. Mainstream Progressives have adopted many liberal ideals, so you might need something to distinguish yourself from them.
 
What you are describing is what Moral Politics would call high scores on both the Moral Rules and the Moral Order scales. Can't help you with what to call yourself; I'm in the same quadrant, but I have quite a bit of ideological baggage that you don't want or need. "Progressive" might be an effective word for you, as the stances you are describing were born out of the Progressive movement, before many of the socially liberal stances you oppose stopped being unthinkable. Mainstream Progressives have adopted many liberal ideals, so you might need something to distinguish yourself from them.

This test is a crock!

Pol_2e51c7d28fd34fa6bdd988a9ebed635a.png


CAPITAL REPUBLICANISM

Capital Republicanism is a moderate form of Conservatism.

Capital Republicans are in favor of a Capitalist market economy and a strong moral order (abortion-control, tradional family values, strong military,...).

There is much debate over how to define Capitalism. Some proponents of capitalism emphasize the role of (presumably efficient) free markets, which, they claim, promote freedom and democracy. For many, capitalism hinges on the elaboration of an economic system in which goods and services are traded in markets, and capital goods belong to non-state entities [Independence], onto a global scale. For others, it is defined by the creation of a labor market in which most people had to sell their labor-power in order to survive.

Examples of my preferred leaders were "John McCain and Richard Nixon"

Yeah,...

I don't think so.
 
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This test is a crock!

Pol_2e51c7d28fd34fa6bdd988a9ebed635a.png


CAPITAL REPUBLICANISM

Capital Republicanism is a moderate form of Conservatism.

Capital Republicans are in favor of a Capitalist market economy and a strong moral order (abortion-control, tradional family values, strong military,...).

There is much debate over how to define Capitalism. Some proponents of capitalism emphasize the role of (presumably efficient) free markets, which, they claim, promote freedom and democracy. For many, capitalism hinges on the elaboration of an economic system in which goods and services are traded in markets, and capital goods belong to non-state entities [Independence], onto a global scale. For others, it is defined by the creation of a labor market in which most people had to sell their labor-power in order to survive.

Examples of my preferred leaders were "John McCain and Richard Nixon"

Yeah,...

I don't think so.

Seems pretty in line with what I read in your posts. How are you different?

Perhaps you are right. I just took that test and it says I am a republican.
 
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Seems pretty in line with what I read in your posts. How are you different?

Perhaps you are right. I just took that test and it says I am a republican.

I hardly believe that McCain or even Nixon are leaders for my causes.

Reagan? Maybe.

Palin or that Arizona Gov. is more my speed.

Try This Test; "What President Are you Most Like?"
 
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How should I label myself?

If I could be serious a moment...

You should label yourself as Digsbe, a rather decent and intelligent young man with a certain set of beliefs. Any further label would just be misleading and unuseful. What matters is what you believe, not what you call it. You do not well fit any label, which is something you can take pride in. You think for yourself, and do not let some label define you.

It is you and a number of other young posters here on these boards(Dav springs to mind as another) who fill me with hope for the future of this country. I may not agree with all, or even most of your beliefs, but you evidently care about this country deeply. That is what this country needs in the people who will someday run it.
 
Theodore Roosevelt 91%
Abraham Lincoln 79%
Ronald Reagan 76%
George Washington 74%


Last time, I scored Reagan First

I gave up in my attempt and never finished the test.

Sarah Palin 100% :2razz:
 
Dwight Eisenhower 57%
Theodore Roosevelt 55%
Abraham Lincoln 50%
Thomas Jefferson 45%
John Kennedy 43%
George Washington 41%
Woodrow Wilson 34%
Ronald Reagan 33%
Harry Truman 24%
Franklin Roosevelt 24%
Lyndon Johnson 24%
 
Thanks for your post Tucker, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do believe in a strong federal government that gives the rights of social issues to the state. I don't think states should be allowed to refuse federal laws (like what Missouri is wanting to do if we ever socialize healthcare). Things like gay marriage, prostitution, and many other social issues should be dealt with on the individual state level. And I took that test and this is what I got
Abraham Lincoln
74%
Theodore Roosevelt
72%
George Washington
67%
John Kennedy
67%
Ronald Reagan
62%
Dwight Eisenhower
62%
Lyndon Johnson
57%
Franklin Roosevelt
57%
Thomas Jefferson
50%
Woodrow Wilson
41%
Harry Truman
31%

I'm still strongly considering a swap to liberalism, honestly I did look at libertarianism and I really dislike it (no offense to libertarians). I'm fine with staying independent and I agree that labels are for the most part stupid, but I want to be truthful with my political leanings. Speaking of other tests, these are my results from taking political ideology tests roughly a month ago. Maybe I'm just pre occupied with how I should label myself, it's really not that important.
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Digbe, I do not know if you are an evangelical, but if you are, please be aware that they can be a pretty diverse group. There are elements within that movement that are strong on social issues within a Christian context. Its a shot in the dark, but perhaps its worth looking into.
 
I'm still strongly considering a swap to liberalism, honestly I did look at libertarianism and I really dislike it (no offense to libertarians). I'm fine with staying independent and I agree that labels are for the most part stupid, but I want to be truthful with my political leanings. Speaking of other tests, these are my results from taking political ideology tests roughly a month ago. Maybe I'm just pre occupied with how I should label myself, it's really not that important.
15x20.gif

pcgraphpng.php

FYI on the last two tests, I used to know the guy who authored either the first one or one very similar to it,... and it was intentionally skewed to make people who took the test seem more libertarian than they really were.

So,.. I'm just saying be mindful of how tests are constructed and questions posed.
 
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and evaluating what I believe regarding politics. Because of my Christian faith I am very socially conservative. However, I am finding myself increasingly supporting government programs and having a larger government then what most conservatives want. I am becoming more liberal when it comes to governance, but remaining socially conservative. I wouldn't describe myself as a centrist or moderate because I am finding that I am becoming more increasingly liberal when it comes to non social political stances. Let me just outline some of the changes I have made politically.

I am for higher taxes in most instances in order to balance the budget (for a season)
I am for regulating capitalism and having a mixture of capitalism with social aspects to it
I support government organizations like the EPA, FDA, welfare, social security, and others (although I do support social security reform).
I am for some form of socialized healthcare

How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:


It seems to me you're beginning to perceive the flaws in your former ideology, and are wanting to be talked out of these perceptions/ revelations.

I am not the person to help you, there.
 
Abraham Lincoln 60%
George Washington 60%
Franklin Roosevelt 52%
Woodrow Wilson 50%
Ronald Reagan 48%
Theodore Roosevelt 43%
Dwight Eisenhower 38%
John Kennedy 36%
Thomas Jefferson 36%
Lyndon Johnson 29%
Harry Truman 17%


That test had little to do with political ideology.
 
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