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Evaluating my beliefs and a little confused

digsbe

digsbe

Truth will set you free
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So I have been doing a lot of thinking and evaluating what I believe regarding politics. Because of my Christian faith I am very socially conservative. However, I am finding myself increasingly supporting government programs and having a larger government then what most conservatives want. I am becoming more liberal when it comes to governance, but remaining socially conservative. I wouldn't describe myself as a centrist or moderate because I am finding that I am becoming more increasingly liberal when it comes to non social political stances. Let me just outline some of the changes I have made politically.

I am for higher taxes in most instances in order to balance the budget (for a season)
I am for regulating capitalism and having a mixture of capitalism with social aspects to it
I support government organizations like the EPA, FDA, welfare, social security, and others (although I do support social security reform).
I am for some form of socialized healthcare

How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:
 
I got just the thing for you.

proud_bleeding_heart_liberal_sticker-p217687641368829421qjcl_400.jpg


Welcome to the club!
 
Tucker Case said:
A "Texas conservative" :2razz:
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:p I have never been to Texas and I find cowboy style conservatism to be repulsive:rofl

I am seriously considering changing my affiliation to "slightly liberal" or "liberal."
 
digsbe said:
:p I have never been to Texas and I find cowboy style conservatism to be repulsive:rofl

I am seriously considering changing my affiliation to "slightly liberal" or "liberal."
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Honestly, I would say you are more moderate or independent than liberal. Not just because of the socially conservative stuff, either. I really do think social conservativism is more often than not a politically "liberal" ideology, when it comes down to federal governmental authority. (using liberal to mean big government not teh classically liberal positions which are considered "conservative" by todays standards)

You have some politically liberal leanings on many issues, but you are also politically conservative ones on other issues.

Why label yourself as one or the other. Teh whole left right dichotomy in this country is bull**** anyway.
 
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digsbe said:
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and evaluating what I believe regarding politics. Because of my Christian faith I am very socially conservative. However, I am finding myself increasingly supporting government programs and having a larger government then what most conservatives want. I am becoming more liberal when it comes to governance, but remaining socially conservative. I wouldn't describe myself as a centrist or moderate because I am finding that I am becoming more increasingly liberal when it comes to non social political stances. Let me just outline some of the changes I have made politically.

I am for higher taxes in most instances in order to balance the budget (for a season)
I am for regulating capitalism and having a mixture of capitalism with social aspects to it
I support government organizations like the EPA, FDA, welfare, social security, and others (although I do support social security reform).
I am for some form of socialized healthcare

How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:
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I have only one argument that might snap you out of this nonsense before it gets too late, Digs.

But first let me say,... I appreciate your remaining conservative on the social issues.

That gives me hope that it's not too late.

Unfortunately, my argument will only appeal to your sense of logic.

1: Start with the idiom "the road to disaster is paved with good intentions."

2: Have you ever put much thought into the "law of un-intended consequences?" If not, you should do a little bit of thinking and reflecting on it. I doubt that you'll regret doing so.

3: Are you aware that for every dollar our government gives to someone in the way of welfare, medical assistance, charity, etc... It has to take as many as THREE or FOUR dollars from you, me and everyone else. This is true for EVERY cause,.... no matter how genuinely worthy the need is.

The government is simply THAT in-efficient, corrupt and power hungry.

4: This 'liber' giving aspect of our government,.... combined with the corruption and in-efficiencies has the "un-intended consequence' of UNDERMINING the genuine charitible giving of your fellow man,... "I GAVE AT THE OFFICE" and against my better judgment.

5: If you see someone in need and give them $100 dollars to help them get by until payday,... that's one thing. But if you want the government to give them that $100? You need an office, in a building, staffed by people who want good wages and medical benefits themselves,... and transportation and insurance and a pension, and computers, and nice office furniture, and,.....

Do you see my point?

Please think hard on this for me Digs,.... I don't have time to walk you through every aspect of it.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Honestly, I would say you are more moderate or independent than liberal. Not just because of the socially conservative stuff, either. I really do think social conservativism is more often than not a politically "liberal" ideology, when it comes down to federal governmental authority. (using liberal to mean big government not teh classically liberal positions which are considered "conservative" by todays standards)

You have some politically liberal leanings on many issues, but you are also politically conservative ones on other issues.

Why label yourself as one or the other. Teh whole left right dichotomy in this country is bull**** anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree that the right left dichotomy is crap. However, I used to be more moderate, now I am finding myself to be more liberal as I am changing and evaluating what I believe. I have flipped when it comes to taxes, healthcare, and social programs. Plus I am now against unrestrained capitalism. I have been doing a lot of internal reflection and I'm not really the same person I was a week ago.
 
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digsbe said:
I agree that the right left dichotomy is crap. However, I sued to be more moderate, now I am finding myself to be more liberal as I am changing and evaluating what I believe. I have flipped when it comes to taxes, healthcare, and social programs. Plus I am not against unrestrained capitalism. I have been doing a lot of internal reflection and I'm not really the same person I was a week ago.
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Regardless of where you end up ideologically at the end of it all, digs, kudos to you for coming to the conclusions on your own through reflection. That's an admirable trait to have.


BTW, have you considered a more anti-federalist, de-centralist approach to politics? Supporting the "liberal" programs if they are run by/at the State/local government level instead of the Federal/national government level? I'd be remiss if I didn't try to recruit you to my ideology at this tender point in your life. :2razz:
 
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digsbe said:
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and evaluating what I believe regarding politics. Because of my Christian faith I am very socially conservative. However, I am finding myself increasingly supporting government programs and having a larger government then what most conservatives want. I am becoming more liberal when it comes to governance, but remaining socially conservative. I wouldn't describe myself as a centrist or moderate because I am finding that I am becoming more increasingly liberal when it comes to non social political stances. Let me just outline some of the changes I have made politically.

I am for higher taxes in most instances in order to balance the budget (for a season)
I am for regulating capitalism and having a mixture of capitalism with social aspects to it
I support government organizations like the EPA, FDA, welfare, social security, and others (although I do support social security reform).
I am for some form of socialized healthcare

How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:
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You sound like a possible right leaning moderate or right leaning liberal.

Choose the best affiliation that you think best suites you and don't be ashamed.
Being a liberal, conservative, communist etc, etc is nothing to be ashamed of, just be able to explain your beliefs and why you believe them.

Edit:
Tucker Case said:
Regardless of where you end up ideologically at the end of it all, digs, kudos to you for coming to the conclusions on your own through reflection. That's an admirable trait to have.
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What Tucky said is probably the best thing, how you have changed through your own reflection.
Don't be afraid of changing if that is what you feel is right.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Honestly, I would say you are more moderate or independent than liberal. Not just because of the socially conservative stuff, either. I really do think social conservativism is more often than not a politically "liberal" ideology, when it comes down to federal governmental authority. (using liberal to mean big government not teh classically liberal positions which are considered "conservative" by todays standards)

You have some politically liberal leanings on many issues, but you are also politically conservative ones on other issues.

Why label yourself as one or the other. Teh whole left right dichotomy in this country is bull**** anyway.
Click to expand...

Shush you! Step one in our assimilation project is done, don't go messing with it.
 
Don't forget the Whigs! We are right in the middle and have socially liberal and conservative members, as well as fiscally moderates. You don't want to go back to Chuz Life's strained vision of the world and you are too smart for Redress' evil plan. Tucker comes closest with his focus on local government and solutions. But he has no registered party and no convention to party at! Go for the Whigs!
 
Tucker Case said:
Meh, your ideology sucks. :2razz:

Mine would create the most overall contentment with government.
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Well, for you maybe. Don't mess with my assimilation project, I am already working on phase 2.
 
reefedjib said:
We've already got all that! You should join the Whigs, Tucker.
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Sorry, can't do it. The original Whig party was wayyyy too Hamiltonian for my tastes.

I'm too far inclined towards the ideologies of Jefferson and Madison to accept the "Whig" title.
 
Also, Digs,...

Since you are a religious thinking person,... You might be interested in this.

It used to be that governments and taxation were pretty much inline with the tithing of the church (10%) .

A benevolent King would take only what he needed to maintain his kingdom and leave the real wealth to his people.

We now work well into the month of APRIL paying the government it's share of out income.

By some calculations (when you factor in all the taxes we pay in total) that's nearly HALF of everything we make.

I ask you,... How much of a percentage does it take to amount to tyranny? or involuntary servitude?

One more link for you to consider; http://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

Believe me,... the longer you study it,... the less efficient government will look as a means to meet the needs of the people.
 
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Redress said:
Shush you! Step one in our assimilation project is done, don't go messing with it.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh quite a bit. From an objective standpoint, I don't think 'bleeding heart liberal' is too accurate for Bigsbe and so when reading all of these posts, my initial thought was your very 'confession'. It seems like they are pushing for him/her to be left-winged more than he/she is for their own long term support. It's easier to get followers of your own belief if you're already in the same 'group' as them (hence my independence - I choose to follow who I will on whatever topic I come across - based on MY beliefs)
 
fredmertz said:
This made me laugh quite a bit. From an objective standpoint, I don't think 'bleeding heart liberal' is too accurate for Bigsbe and so when reading all of these posts, my initial thought was your very 'confession'. It seems like they are pushing for him/her to be left-winged more than he/she is for their own long term support. It's easier to get followers of your own belief if you're already in the same 'group' as them (hence my independence - I choose to follow who I will on whatever topic I come across - based on MY beliefs)
Click to expand...

Digsbe knows me. He is a good guy and I have a ton of respect for his views. On the other hand, I got to pick on him a bit.
 
Tucker Case said:
Sorry, can't do it. The original Whig party was wayyyy too Hamiltonian for my tastes.

I'm too far inclined towards the ideologies of Jefferson and Madison to accept the "Whig" title.
Click to expand...

So what exactly does this mean? What does it mean to call a party Hamiltonian? I think it means strong central government with lots of influence in the marketplace. What does it mean to call a party Jeffersonian and Madisonian?

The old Whig party was for strong central government with lots of social spending and programs. The new Whig party is for states rights and fiscal responsibility and not so concerned with social programs. Does that mean we are Jeffersonian, now?
 
reefedjib said:
So what exactly does this mean? What does it mean to call a party Hamiltonian? I think it means strong central government with lots of influence in the marketplace. What does it mean to call a part Jeffersonian and Madisonian?

THe old party was for strong central government with lots of social spending and programs. The new party is for states rights and fiscal responsibility and not so concerned with social programs. Does that mean we are Jeffersonian, now?
Click to expand...

Yeah. If you are in favor of decentralization, it is more Jeffersonia/Madisonian than Hamiltonian.
 
digsbe said:
How should I label myself? What would you call a social conservative but politically liberal person? I am still evaluating my beliefs and could still be swayed to conservatism if hard facts are presented, but I am finding that as my political beliefs evolve I am becoming increasingly liberal (however I still hate Obama ;) ) What am I? Anyone want to offer help to a confused person? :confused:
Click to expand...

Political values dont have to be set in stone, and in fact shouldnt be. They should be re-evaluated constantly on receiving new information. That is what information is for.

As you see, I dont label myself at all. It says disclosed, under lean on my profile. This is on purpose, so I can remain fluid and flexible, and base my opinions on information and experience, rather than trying to fit myself into a label.
 
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