• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Euthanasia, should people have the right to decide their own end?

What is you opinion of Euthanasia

  • In favor, if it is my time, I hope it is possible for me

    Votes: 21 70.0%
  • in favor, but I doubt I would choose to die in that manner

    Votes: 4 13.3%
  • I don't want it, but other should be free to make that choice

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • against, because ..............

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • I am not sure/I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30

Peter King

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
25,285
Reaction score
12,093
Location
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Last night I saw a Dutch documentary about a young woman called Priscilla, she had an incurable illness which caused her to suffer greatly. She lived in a hospice facility aged 25 and her bad days were greater in number than her "good days". Her mother had suffered from the same illness and she knew when she was informed that she had the same disease that she would die young. Her mother died aged 31, she had been suffering terrifying pains for years and had been totally bedridden for years prior to her death. But she kept on hanging to life because she had 2 young children.

When Priscilla found out she had the same disease, she made a decision for herself not to have any children. She decided to live life to the fullest until she no longer could but that she would also not suffer as her mother did for years, bedridden and miserable. She had already discussed it with her GP and at that time she was not ready to talk about it, but she knew she would want to die through euthanasia when the time was right.

On the day she turned 26 she died, the days before her death she tried to live as best as she could, she gave one last birthday bash on the day before her birthday/death-day for all those who loved her. The day of her 26 birthday, surrounded by friends, family and loved ones, she was given a lethal mixture of barbiturates which ended her life.


My grandmother had chosen long before going into a senior citizens facility that if the time came, she would want to die through euthanasia. If she ever were in a situation where she was suffering great pain while suffering from a deadly condition/illness, that she would want to die by euthanasia. She also did not want to end up in a vegetative state/coma.

However, she never went through euthanasia because she began to suffer from Alzheimer and ended up in a nursing home for Alzheimer patients. In that case euthanasia was no longer an option. After moving to that nursing home from the facility she lived in and that she absolutely did not want to leave, she slipped into unconsciousness due to an infection and she died peacefully a few days later.

I never knew my grandfather, he died about 1 year before I was born in 1968. He died aged 53 from cancer. My grandmother was lucky enough to find a new partner and like the person that she was, she refused to marry him and lived with him "in sin" (the extremely catholic area of my country would have seen it as a sin, she however did not) until the day he died.

He was a miner, coal dust had ravaged his lungs. He was always short of breath but still a wonderful man who taught me loads of things and who was always there for my and my mother/sister. He did smoke and combined with the coal dust it gave him lung cancer. He could no longer walk properly, nurses had to help him cough up slime from his lungs because he no longer had the strength to cough hard enough for it to happen naturally. He also wanted an end to his suffering and although euthanasia was illegal at that time, in agreement with his doctors, they had agreed he would be allowed to die without prolonging the indignation and suffering. He was given such a large dose of morphine that he slipped away and died. At that time euthanasia as said was still illegal but was being condoned as long as it was done with due diligence and strict guidelines. These guidelines and due diligence rules later became the basis for the Dutch euthanasia laws.

But how do people here feel about euthanasia?
 

ReformCollege

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
4,136
Reaction score
915
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Last night I saw a Dutch documentary about a young woman called Priscilla, she had an incurable illness which caused her to suffer greatly. She lived in a hospice facility aged 25 and her bad days were greater in number than her "good days". Her mother had suffered from the same illness and she knew when she was informed that she had the same disease that she would die young. Her mother died aged 31, she had been suffering terrifying pains for years and had been totally bedridden for years prior to her death. But she kept on hanging to life because she had 2 young children.

When Priscilla found out she had the same disease, she made a decision for herself not to have any children. She decided to live life to the fullest until she no longer could but that she would also not suffer as her mother did for years, bedridden and miserable. She had already discussed it with her GP and at that time she was not ready to talk about it, but she knew she would want to die through euthanasia when the time was right.

On the day she turned 26 she died, the days before her death she tried to live as best as she could, she gave one last birthday bash on the day before her birthday/death-day for all those who loved her. The day of her 26 birthday, surrounded by friends, family and loved ones, she was given a lethal mixture of barbiturates which ended her life.


My grandmother had chosen long before going into a senior citizens facility that if the time came, she would want to die through euthanasia. If she ever were in a situation where she was suffering great pain while suffering from a deadly condition/illness, that she would want to die by euthanasia. She also did not want to end up in a vegetative state/coma.

However, she never went through euthanasia because she began to suffer from Alzheimer and ended up in a nursing home for Alzheimer patients. In that case euthanasia was no longer an option. After moving to that nursing home from the facility she lived in and that she absolutely did not want to leave, she slipped into unconsciousness due to an infection and she died peacefully a few days later.

I never knew my grandfather, he died about 1 year before I was born in 1968. He died aged 53 from cancer. My grandmother was lucky enough to find a new partner and like the person that she was, she refused to marry him and lived with him "in sin" (the extremely catholic area of my country would have seen it as a sin, she however did not) until the day he died.

He was a miner, coal dust had ravaged his lungs. He was always short of breath but still a wonderful man who taught me loads of things and who was always there for my and my mother/sister. He did smoke and combined with the coal dust it gave him lung cancer. He could no longer walk properly, nurses had to help him cough up slime from his lungs because he no longer had the strength to cough hard enough for it to happen naturally. He also wanted an end to his suffering and although euthanasia was illegal at that time, in agreement with his doctors, they had agreed he would be allowed to die without prolonging the indignation and suffering. He was given such a large dose of morphine that he slipped away and died. At that time euthanasia as said was still illegal but was being condoned as long as it was done with due diligence and strict guidelines. These guidelines and due diligence rules later became the basis for the Dutch euthanasia laws.

But how do people here feel about euthanasia?
Yes, they should.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,246
Reaction score
19,931
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Absolutely.

Though I don't think I would want that for myself.
 

ChrisL

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
47,571
Reaction score
16,958
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Last night I saw a Dutch documentary about a young woman called Priscilla, she had an incurable illness which caused her to suffer greatly. She lived in a hospice facility aged 25 and her bad days were greater in number than her "good days". Her mother had suffered from the same illness and she knew when she was informed that she had the same disease that she would die young. Her mother died aged 31, she had been suffering terrifying pains for years and had been totally bedridden for years prior to her death. But she kept on hanging to life because she had 2 young children.

When Priscilla found out she had the same disease, she made a decision for herself not to have any children. She decided to live life to the fullest until she no longer could but that she would also not suffer as her mother did for years, bedridden and miserable. She had already discussed it with her GP and at that time she was not ready to talk about it, but she knew she would want to die through euthanasia when the time was right.

On the day she turned 26 she died, the days before her death she tried to live as best as she could, she gave one last birthday bash on the day before her birthday/death-day for all those who loved her. The day of her 26 birthday, surrounded by friends, family and loved ones, she was given a lethal mixture of barbiturates which ended her life.


My grandmother had chosen long before going into a senior citizens facility that if the time came, she would want to die through euthanasia. If she ever were in a situation where she was suffering great pain while suffering from a deadly condition/illness, that she would want to die by euthanasia. She also did not want to end up in a vegetative state/coma.

However, she never went through euthanasia because she began to suffer from Alzheimer and ended up in a nursing home for Alzheimer patients. In that case euthanasia was no longer an option. After moving to that nursing home from the facility she lived in and that she absolutely did not want to leave, she slipped into unconsciousness due to an infection and she died peacefully a few days later.

I never knew my grandfather, he died about 1 year before I was born in 1968. He died aged 53 from cancer. My grandmother was lucky enough to find a new partner and like the person that she was, she refused to marry him and lived with him "in sin" (the extremely catholic area of my country would have seen it as a sin, she however did not) until the day he died.

He was a miner, coal dust had ravaged his lungs. He was always short of breath but still a wonderful man who taught me loads of things and who was always there for my and my mother/sister. He did smoke and combined with the coal dust it gave him lung cancer. He could no longer walk properly, nurses had to help him cough up slime from his lungs because he no longer had the strength to cough hard enough for it to happen naturally. He also wanted an end to his suffering and although euthanasia was illegal at that time, in agreement with his doctors, they had agreed he would be allowed to die without prolonging the indignation and suffering. He was given such a large dose of morphine that he slipped away and died. At that time euthanasia as said was still illegal but was being condoned as long as it was done with due diligence and strict guidelines. These guidelines and due diligence rules later became the basis for the Dutch euthanasia laws.

But how do people here feel about euthanasia?
I am for it, but I think it should be done under the supervision of a physician or other medical personnel. I don't think anyone should be made to suffer through a terminal illness and should be able to choose to die with dignity and before they are in excruciating pain and their quality of life is awful.

Regarding your grandmother with Alzheimer's, I think people in her situation should be able to have a living will that would apply if they develop a disease that deteriorates their mental condition. I think you should also be able to choose euthanasia for diseases like Alzheimer's too, anything that would lessen your quality of life.
 

molten_dragon

Anti-Hypocrite
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,235
Reaction score
4,862
Location
Southeast Michigan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Absolutely yes.

Alzheimer's runs in my family. I saw what it did to my great grandmother, and what it's starting to do to my grandfather. I don't want to go down that road myself, and I certainly don't want to make my family go down it. If I find out I have it, and there's no cure by then, suicide will be a seriously considered option.
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Absolutely.

When my life can no longer be enjoyed, when I can no longer do for myself and dependent on others for the most basics of life, I plan on exiting at the time of my choosing.

If someone doesn't like it, then don't do it. But do not take that choice from others.
 

Spartacus FPV

Better You = Better World
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
14,870
Reaction score
7,126
Location
Your Echochamber
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Absolutely, and should I decide that for myself let anyone try and stop me. A 12 gauge 1 ounce slug to the head is > your opinion.
 

Green Balls

Resident Cat Expert
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
1,292
Reaction score
645
Location
Indianapolis
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I am all for it. The patient should have the option if they want it done by medical staff. I would prefer a doctor to be present just in case something went wrong. I wouldn't want to make myself suffer even worse if there was a mishap.
 

ChrisL

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
47,571
Reaction score
16,958
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
What if you had esophageal cancer and had to get all of your food through a tube and poop in a bag and what if it got so bad that you couldn't breathe anymore and had to be on a respirator too? And that's not even mentioning the pain, which is excruciating and can only be controlled with high doses of narcotic pain medications, which still don't work so well.

That's the type of scenario I think of where I would probably want euthanasia. I don't like the idea of the "suicide pills" though. I think it should be done under the supervision of a medical professional.
 

Peter King

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
25,285
Reaction score
12,093
Location
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Here in the Netherlands the law is as follows:

The law allows medical review board to suspend prosecution of doctors who performed euthanasia when each of the following conditions is fulfilled:

- the patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement
- the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
- the patient must be fully aware of his/her condition, prospects and options
- there must be consultation with at least one other independent doctor who needs to confirm the conditions mentioned above
- the death must be carried out in a medically appropriate fashion by the doctor or patient, in which case the doctor must be present
- the patient is at least 12 years old (patients between 12 and 16 years of age require the consent of their parents)

The doctor must also report the cause of death to the municipal coroner in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Burial and Cremation Act. A regional review committee assesses whether a case of termination of life on request or assisted suicide complies with the due care criteria. Depending on its findings, the case will either be closed or, if the conditions are not met brought to the attention of the Public Prosecutor. Finally, the legislation offers an explicit recognition of the validity of a written declaration of will of the patient regarding euthanasia (a "euthanasia directive"). Such declarations can be used when a patient is in a coma or otherwise unable to state if they wish to be euthanized.

(source wikipedia)

And that is largely how I feel about it too, the rules must be strict and enforced to make sure that the following stipulations are followed to protect the patient and the doctor.
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Here in the Netherlands the law is as follows:

The law allows medical review board to suspend prosecution of doctors who performed euthanasia when each of the following conditions is fulfilled:

- the patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement
- the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
- the patient must be fully aware of his/her condition, prospects and options
- there must be consultation with at least one other independent doctor who needs to confirm the conditions mentioned above
- the death must be carried out in a medically appropriate fashion by the doctor or patient, in which case the doctor must be present
- the patient is at least 12 years old (patients between 12 and 16 years of age require the consent of their parents)

The doctor must also report the cause of death to the municipal coroner in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Burial and Cremation Act. A regional review committee assesses whether a case of termination of life on request or assisted suicide complies with the due care criteria. Depending on its findings, the case will either be closed or, if the conditions are not met brought to the attention of the Public Prosecutor. Finally, the legislation offers an explicit recognition of the validity of a written declaration of will of the patient regarding euthanasia (a "euthanasia directive"). Such declarations can be used when a patient is in a coma or otherwise unable to state if they wish to be euthanized.

(source wikipedia)

And that is largely how I feel about it too, the rules must be strict and enforced to make sure that the following stipulations are followed to protect the patient and the doctor.
The patient's suffering... which does not mean just 'physical pain', I hope. There is much more to 'suffering' than what can be defined by physical pain.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
What if you had esophageal cancer and had to get all of your food through a tube and poop in a bag and what if it got so bad that you couldn't breathe anymore and had to be on a respirator too? And that's not even mentioning the pain, which is excruciating and can only be controlled with high doses of narcotic pain medications, which still don't work so well.

That's the type of scenario I think of where I would probably want euthanasia. I don't like the idea of the "suicide pills" though. I think it should be done under the supervision of a medical professional.
I'd kill myself or I would ride it out. I would not put that onto others to do for me, but if you didn't want the respirator and to just die then they would let you now.
 

ChrisL

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
47,571
Reaction score
16,958
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I'd kill myself or I would ride it out. I would not put that onto others to do for me, but if you didn't want the respirator and to just die then they would let you now.
Who do you mean by "others?" Doctors?

Yes, you can actually have a DNR (do not resuscitate) status, but a lot of times the doctors don't receive it until it's too late, and they revive the patient anyway. I've typed about that happening a bunch of times. I'm not sure about the laws on actually pulling the plug, whether it differs from state to state or what not.
 

Peter King

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
25,285
Reaction score
12,093
Location
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The patient's suffering... which does not mean just 'physical pain', I hope. There is much more to 'suffering' than what can be defined by physical pain.
No, that also includes unbearable suffering from mental conditions (some mental conditions that is).
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
No, that also includes unbearable suffering from mental conditions (some mental conditions that is).
So that would limit those who aren't mentally deteriorated or in physical pain from making that choice.

I'm glad I have the means, if I should want it, to do what I need to when the time comes.
 

Peter King

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
25,285
Reaction score
12,093
Location
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I'd kill myself or I would ride it out. I would not put that onto others to do for me, but if you didn't want the respirator and to just die then they would let you now.
I would not choose suicide because then there will always be questions, someone will find you and he will have to live with that happening. I don't care if the euthanasia is administered by self administered under medical supervision, but out and out suicide is not the way out IMHO. Especially because it would not solve anything, people who are not able to commit suicide would still be suffering unbearably with no legal way out.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Who do you mean by "others?" Doctors?

Yes, you can actually have a DNR (do not resuscitate) status, but a lot of times the doctors don't receive it until it's too late, and they revive the patient anyway. I've typed about that happening a bunch of times. I'm not sure about the laws on actually pulling the plug, whether it differs from state to state or what not.
Well if one were to have all the ailments you described, they would have plenty of time; there are medalert bracelets for that; people that bad off usually have enough drugs on hand to kill a herd of elephants; and even beyond all that, you could just stop eating and drinking and you would go pretty quick.
 

Spartacus FPV

Better You = Better World
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
14,870
Reaction score
7,126
Location
Your Echochamber
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Well if one were to have all the ailments you described, they would have plenty of time; there are medalert bracelets for that; people that bad off usually have enough drugs on hand to kill a herd of elephants; and even beyond all that, you could just stop eating and drinking and you would go pretty quick.
Starvation? That's what you would limit a person already suffering to go out dealing with?
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I would not choose suicide because then there will always be questions, someone will find you and he will have to live with that happening. I don't care if the euthanasia is administered by self administered under medical supervision, but out and out suicide is not the way out IMHO. Especially because it would not solve anything, people who are not able to commit suicide would still be suffering unbearably with no legal way out.
Then they cannot expect my support. There is no situation in which I would support euthanasia. None. Not a single one. People think it is humane. I think it devalues human life. Life is a bitch and so is death usually. That is just how it is.
 

ChrisL

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
47,571
Reaction score
16,958
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Well if one were to have all the ailments you described, they would have plenty of time; there are medalert bracelets for that; people that bad off usually have enough drugs on hand to kill a herd of elephants; and even beyond all that, you could just stop eating and drinking and you would go pretty quick.
Lots of people try to kill themselves with prescription drugs and don't die. Also, starvation and dehydration are really horrible ways to die. Not quick.
 

specklebang

Discount Philosopher
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
11,524
Reaction score
6,769
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
I'm surprised that you of all people came up with no. Can you explain your position to me? I'm genuinely curious.


(disclosure: I have about 100 30 mg. Roxycontins ground up with prilosec. I have no intention of suffering. I recently watched my Father die and he would have been better off without that last 2 weeks of agony and the shame of wetting himself. A noble man brought low.)
 
Last edited:

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Lots of people try to kill themselves with prescription drugs and don't die. Also, starvation and dehydration are really horrible ways to die. Not quick.
Really don't care. There are no guarantees in life except you will eventually die.
 

Peter King

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
25,285
Reaction score
12,093
Location
Netherlands
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
So that would limit those who aren't mentally deteriorated or in physical pain from making that choice.

I'm glad I have the means, if I should want it, to do what I need to when the time comes.
You have to be lucid mentally to even ask for euthanasia, if someone has actually mentally deteriorated in such a manner that they no longer are able to make an informed and consistent choice for euthanasia, that would end the possibility of euthanasia for them. People who suffer from more than mild Alzheimer for example cannot undergo euthanasia, the same goes for people whose mental disease makes them unfit to make informed choices are not able to undergo euthanasia.

The overwhelming amount of euthanasia requests and cases in which euthanasia has been applied are those who suffer from physical diseases/conditions.
 
Top Bottom