European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats (1 Viewer)

[Cold Dirt]

European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats
Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:43pm ET

OPORTO, Portugal (Reuters) - European Socialists promised on Thursday to work to rebuild Europe's strategic alliance with the United States now that the Democrats control Congress after last month's elections.

Socialist leaders attending a meeting of the European Socialist Party pledged that with the Democrats on the rise, strong ties could be renewed with the United States after years of cool relations with Republican President George W. Bush.

Howard Dean, chairman of the national committee of the U.S. Democratic Party, is attending the two-day conference together with the leaders of leftist governments of several countries and party leaders from across Europe.

"We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America," former Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, president of the European Socialist Party, said in remarks directed at Dean.

The Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress for the first time since 1994 in the mid-term elections, reshaping the political landscape ahead of the 2008 presidential race.

"Europe needs an America that is back on track," said Portuguese Socialist Prime Minister Jose Socrates, whose country is hosting the meeting.

"We need, today more than ever, to reinforce and renew the strategic alliance between the United States and Europe," Socrates said. "We know that a stronger Democratic Party is key for this to happen."

Photo Slideshow | Reuters.com

Not much of a difference between the two. I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

Could be because republicans love freedom and democrats must be controlled by a govt.

 

[saggyjones]

Photo Slideshow | Reuters.com

Not much of a difference between the two. I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

Why would socialists want to work with republicans?

Could be because republicans love freedom and democrats must be controlled by a govt.

Most socialists are libertarian. What makes you think they don't like freedom? Communism is different from socialism, and democrats are different from both. Democrats believe in capitalism, even if they don't believe in all it's current principles. Socialists think the government should control the economy and social programs but allow people to live however they want.

 

[agaglio]

"We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America,"

I hate to break it to him, but America was not built around socialist ideals.

 

[SixStringHero]

Most socialists are libertarian.

Care to elaborate?

 

[BWG]

I hate to break it to him, but America was not built around socialist ideals.

Who said it was? You didn't read the article? It was short!

I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

You didn't read your own article, either?...LOL...:lol:

"Europe needs an America that is back on track,"

"We need, today more than ever, to reinforce and renew the strategic alliance between the United States and Europe,"

Many European governments, not just Socialist ones, have above all been angered by Bush's war in Iraq and what has been seen as the U.S. failure to work with allies in international affairs.

 

[danarhea]

Most socialists are libertarian.

Care to elaborate?

Yea, I want to hear that one too. Never knew before that Libertarians were in favor of government controlled economies. His explanation ought to be very interesting at the least, if not totally humorous.

 

[Kandahar]

Not much of a difference between the two. I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

Could be because republicans love freedom and democrats must be controlled by a govt.

Nah, it's more because this administration has basically flipped the bird to Europe. I bet that center-right parties are also in Europe are more eager to work with Democrats than Republicans. By my count, there are three Western European countries where the left or center-left party is in power (Spain, Italy, and UK). And in every other country in Western Europe, the right or center-right is in power. Yet these parties are also closer to the Democrats.

What is wrong with the socialists wanting to work with Democrats? Economic policy is primarily a domestic matter (with the exception of lowering trade barriers, which socialists aren't eager to solve anyway). So I hardly think that better relations with socialist parties in Europe means that America is going to become socialist.

 

[aps]

Photo Slideshow | Reuters.com

Not much of a difference between the two. I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

Could be because republicans love freedom and democrats must be controlled by a govt.

:clap: Ahhh, he learns.

 

[LeftyHenry]

First,

These Euro-Socialists are really just Social-Democrats, not really socialists. They are Labor Party/Democrat/ PRI equivelant.

Second,

Most socialists are libertarian. What makes you think they don't like freedom? Communism is different from socialism, and democrats are different from both. Democrats believe in capitalism, even if they don't believe in all it's current principles. Socialists think the government should control the economy and social programs but allow people to live however they want.

Depends what you mean. I am a social libertarian, but I am by no means a political libertarian. Revolution is inherently authoritarian as it is one class overthrowing another and suppressing it. Democratic Socialists and Social Democrats like you can definately be social and political libertarians. These Euro-"Socialists" are social and political libertarians, however revolutionary socialists are not political libertarians.

 

[LeftyHenry]

I hate to break it to him, but America was not built around socialist ideals.

Right you are. Socialism and Slave ownership are opposites.

 

[saggyjones]

Most socialists are libertarian.

Care to elaborate?

Well I should have researched the word libertarian before using it, because now that I look it up I realize it means minimizing the role of the state and promoting free will and individual rights, so I take back saying "Most socialists are libertarian". I thought it meant freedom of the people as opposed to control of the people in an authoritarian rule.

If you can point out any other faults in my previous post, please do, because I need to learn somehow. There, I elaborated.

 

[jfuh]

Photo Slideshow | Reuters.com

Not much of a difference between the two. I wonder why socialists would be so eager to work with democrats instead of republicans?

Could be because republicans love freedom and democrats must be controlled by a govt.

If what you say is true, then why is it that the GOP lead by Bush and co were the ones to invade private citizens through warrantless wiretaps?
Also why is it that they have suspended hadeas corpus?
And finally, what is bad about the eagerness of European socialists to work with democrats?

 

[PeteEU]

European "socialists" and most other european political parties (including those on the right) have more in common with the democrats than the republicans if we look at the politics. So its only natural that europeans would rather work with Democrats than Republicans.

Add to that, that the present administration is in no way a team player on the international stage, even with its closests allies, then its even more natural that labeled conservative parties in Europe and the left leaning parties as a whole would rather work with Democrats than Republicans.... people dont like bullies.

But the label "socialist" is a extremly broad label. Most political parties in Europe with the exception of the far right racist parties can be classified as "socialist" if we go by the defenitions brought up here. All parties want goverment control of the economy in some way, some more, some less, but all also believe in the free market. They also all believe that the goverment needs to help the not so well off in society, a very unrepublican way of thinking.

Socialist in Europe does not mean goverment controlled economies or whole sale nationalsation of private companies or big goverment companies running things. Probally the most socialist goverment at the moment is the UK one.. with the Italian and Spanish goverments close behind and both are privatising and cutting taxes.. a very unsocialist thing to do if you ask most americans

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

Socialists think the government should control the economy and social programs but allow people to live however they want.

When the government is controlling the economy it's pretty much controlling everything.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I hate to break it to him, but America was not built around socialist ideals.

Right you are. Socialism and Slave ownership are opposites.

1. America was not founded on slavery.
2. The socialism you propose is mutual slavery, where everyone owns and is responsible for everyone.
3. "If you don' like Amerrrica, then you can git out!"
4. Don't bother calling yourself a libertarian when you're opposed to free markets, money, private property, and limited government. All these "socialist-libertarian" hybrid titles are bullshit inconsistent and contradictory positions in comparison.
5. Capitalism pwnZ j00, you commie parasite.

 

[Goobieman]

Most socialists are libertarian. What makes you think they don't like freedom?

:shock:
Socialism is the antithesis of Libertarianism.

 

[LeftyHenry]

1. America was not founded on slavery.

LOL and Bob Marley was a Nazi. :roll:

2. The socialism you propose is mutual slavery, where everyone owns and is responsible for everyone.

The capitalism you propose is straight-up slavery, where a small class of enlightened ones leech off the masses but create the illusion that they are necessary.

3. "If you don' like Amerrrica, then you can git out!"

Sorry, some of us aren't wealthy enough to just pick up and move to another country.

4. Don't bother calling yourself a libertarian when you're opposed to free markets, money, private property, and limited government. All these "socialist-libertarian" hybrid titles are bullshit inconsistent and contradictory positions in comparison.

Social libertarian means I support gay marriage, abortion, etc... ****wad.

5. Capitalism pwnZ j00, you commie parasite.

Yes well, Capitalism had at least a 150 year headstart...

 

[LeftyHenry]

Socialists think the government should control the economy and social programs but allow people to live however they want.

No socialists think the proletariat, the masses. the working class should control the economy. The working class cannot benefit while it is exploited by capitalism, thus socialism has often come in the form of a planned economy.

When the government is controlling the economy it's pretty much controlling everything.

governments always control economies.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

LOL and Bob Marley was a Nazi. :roll:

Okay then Einstein. Please explain to me how we were founded ON slavery. Please explain to me how slavery wasn't just a part of the constitution, but the purpose of it. Explain to me how a shameful period in our history characterizes who we are today. I would love for you to explain all that to me you America hating commie.

The capitalism you propose is straight-up slavery, where a small class of enlightened ones leech off the masses but create the illusion that they are necessary.

Yeah yeah, freedom is slavery, rebellion is peace, and worker communes are more fit to run highly intricate global industries than the market.:roll:

Sorry, some of us aren't wealthy enough to just pick up and move to another country.

You overestimate how much it would take to get you gone. Just walk up to any official and inform him of your intentions, your rebellion and ideals. They'll see that the appropriate authorities deport your broke ***.

Social libertarian means I support gay marriage, abortion, etc... ****wad.

Don't be upset because you mistook libertarian for liberal. You shouldn't use the term when it doesn't apply to you. I am a libertarian, you are a wannabe hybrid.

Yes well, Capitalism had at least a 150 year headstart...

Capitalism has existed as long as men had the means of exchange for the things that they value, and people willing to employ them.

Yours is not the cause of individual liberty, for you represent the collective. And the fact that you're too poor to afford a one-way trip out of this place you despise so much, is very telling and explains much about your political position. Blame those that have, right?

governments always control economies

Not always, economies do not need governments to exist, and ideally the two should never cross paths. Governments should only serve the purpose of protecting the rights of those who trade in the economy from theft or unfair trade practices.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Okay then Einstein. Please explain to me how we were founded ON slavery.

America is a world superpower today because of the skin, flesh, sweat, and blood of the African Slave who were forced to take forests, and turn them into functioning plantations that would be an extremely profitable industry.

Even after the emancipation proclamation, slavery has continued, it wasn't until Teddy Roosevelt's Trustbusting that workers recieved minimal rights and weren't attacked by National Guardsmen, locked into their workplace when a fire started, forced to work extremely long hours for less and less pay in unsafe conditions, and many other things of the sort.

Even now, millions of hardworking Americans work long hours in dirty, filthy, and all around unpleasant jobs; yet they are not payed a living wage.

Please explain to me how slavery wasn't just a part of the constitution, but the purpose of it.

The purpose of the constitution was not soley slavery.

Explain to me how a shameful period in our history characterizes who we are today. I would love for you to explain all that to me you America hating commie.

LOL I'm putting that as my user title. "America Hating Commie". I don't hate any nation, I hate capitalism.

Slavery characterizes who we are today because wage slavery continues in the US today, and non-wage slavery built the foundation of the American economy.

Yeah yeah, freedom is slavery,

Lenin once said freedom under capitalism will always be the same as it was in ancient Greece. Freedom for the slave owners. You aren't free when you're impoverished. Sorry. Besides, capitalism and bourgieous liberal democracy don't go hand in hand. Hitler, Franco, Pinochet, Somoza, Batista, Hallie Sallasie, etc etc are examples of capitalist dictators.

and worker communes are more fit to run highly intricate global industries than the market

there is really nothing to say here. If you think this is about fitness, you're wrong. This comes back to worker liberation.

You overestimate how much it would take to get you gone. Just walk up to any official and inform him of your intentions, your rebellion and ideals. They'll see that the appropriate authorities deport your broke ***.

Or, they'll just shoot me 100 times like they did to Fred Hampton.

Don't be upset because you mistook libertarian for liberal. You shouldn't use the term when it doesn't apply to you. I am a libertarian, you are a wannabe hybrid.

LOL you have no ****ing clue about what you're talking about. I am far from a liberal. I am very much against liberal and neoliberalism. Social libertarian means I am socially libertarian. You are a ****ing idiot if you don't get that. How am I a wanabe? You are the wanabe. You are a neocon, not a libertarian. You just think its more fashionable.

Capitalism has existed as long as men had the means of exchange for the things that they value, and people willing to employ them.

Ya so umm... Socialism had like what less than a century to catch up with a near millenium of capitalism? Funny thing is, they almost did.

Yours is not the cause of individual liberty, for you represent the collective. And the fact that you're too poor to afford a one-way trip out of this place you despise so much, is very telling and explains much about your political position. Blame those that have, right?

I have wealthy family, if I wanted, I could probably get them to buy me a ticket out of here. The thing is, I don't really want to leave this place. I only speak English and very broken and poor Spanish and French. The truth is, I love my city and the cultural blend of America. I don't love capitalism and neoliberalism, which is what everything I hate about America boils down to. So I want to change that. Simple as that.

Not always, economies do not need governments to exist, and ideally the two should never cross paths. Governments should only serve the purpose of protecting the rights of those who trade in the economy from theft or unfair trade practices.

But they do, even here in America, the capital of capitalism. We've abandonned the idiocy of laissez-faire economics almost a century ago with Teddy Roosevelt's trustbusting and then later with Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal.

 

[TurtleDude]

Why would socialists want to work with republicans?



Most socialists are libertarian. .

OMG is this funny. socialism is the antithesis of libertarian. socialists want to ban guns, confiscate wealth, force others to pay for the sloths. socialism is a form of collectivism which mutates into totalitarianism

 

[LeftyHenry]

socialists want to ban guns,

Actually, no we don't. How the **** will the proletariat start an armed revolution without guns? Socialists are NOT liberal wieners.

confiscate wealth,

No just return it too the people who actually earned it.

force others to pay for the sloths.

oooh that's a new insult to the working class, the people who are the back bone of this country.

So far my list this week is

--sloths
--nimrods
--scum
--idiots

I'll post updates soon.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

America is a world superpower today because of the skin, flesh, sweat, and blood of the African Slave who were forced to take forests, and turn them into functioning plantations that would be an extremely profitable industry.

Actually we're a superpower because of the industrial revolution, and our post WW2 policies. You're trying to establish a cause and effect relationship with a century-wide gap.

Even after the emancipation proclamation, slavery has continued, it wasn't until Teddy Roosevelt's Trustbusting that workers recieved minimal rights and weren't attacked by National Guardsmen, locked into their workplace when a fire started, forced to work extremely long hours for less and less pay in unsafe conditions, and many other things of the sort.

Oh I get it now, if you can call anything slavery, for example, any time of capitalism, then slavery has always existed thus America was built on it. Great logic :roll:

Its too bad the definition for slavery isn't flexible enough to fit everything you need it to.

Even now, millions of hardworking Americans work long hours in dirty, filthy, and all around unpleasant jobs; yet they are not payed a living wage.

Here you go again...

The purpose of the constitution was not soley slavery.

Soley? Is that a word? Are you implying that slavery, as opposed to liberty, was one of the primary intentions? Thats funny considering so little of the constitution addresses the issue, and was easily amended.

That right there is just a shameful lie, how dare you sully the constitution so.

LOL I'm putting that as my user title. "America Hating Commie". I don't hate any nation, I hate capitalism.

To hate capitalism is to hate money, trade, private property and thus liberty, and industry. You hate America, nobody here buys your "Property is theft" bull.

Slavery characterizes who we are today because wage slavery continues in the US today, and non-wage slavery built the foundation of the American economy.

Misrepresentation of history and current working conditions in America.

You aren't free when you're impoverished.

The logical fallacy of a false dilemma. This just simply is not true. You can be quite free and impoverished.

Sorry. Besides, capitalism and bourgieous liberal democracy don't go hand in hand. Hitler, Franco, Pinochet, Somoza, Batista, Hallie Sallasie, etc etc are examples of capitalist dictators.

Oh I get it, they were dictators and bad because they were capitalist. They were human too, whoa does that mean all humans are like them. You've defied the rules of logic, I guess its true, correlation ='s causation.

there is really nothing to say here. If you think this is about fitness, you're wrong. This comes back to worker liberation.

Lefty, when I say fit I wasn't talking about physical condition. Do learn the english language. "Liberated workers" cannot plan economies more efficiently than the free market.

Ya so umm... Socialism had like what less than a century to catch up with a near millenium of capitalism? Funny thing is, they almost did.

Oh I see, you think its a matter of catching up and not a matter of having failed and being an inferior system.

I have wealthy family, if I wanted, I could probably get them to buy me a ticket out of here. The thing is, I don't really want to leave this place. I only speak English and very broken and poor Spanish and French. The truth is, I love my city and the cultural blend of America. I don't love capitalism and neoliberalism, which is what everything I hate about America boils down to. So I want to change that. Simple as that.

You want to change everything about America, but keep the culture. Sorry but thats a case of having thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

But they do, even here in America, the capital of capitalism. We've abandonned the idiocy of laissez-faire economics almost a century ago with Teddy Roosevelt's trustbusting and then later with Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal.

I'm not going to argue with you whether or not economies need governments or not. I can prove that they don't but you will always insist on a planned economy or your whole position goes bust. Did the free market touch you in a bad place when you were an altar boy?

LOL you have no ****ing clue about what you're talking about. I am far from a liberal. I am very much against liberal and neoliberalism. Social libertarian means I am socially libertarian. You are a ****ing idiot if you don't get that. How am I a wanabe? You are the wanabe. You are a neocon, not a libertarian. You just think its more fashionable.

Wow, for who says I have no clue, calling me a neocon was a total blunder for you. Where in my position do I advocate pre-emptive foreign policy? Or a strong Executive? Or Big Government?

ALL YOU DO is use words you don't understand. How am I a neocon, I bet you wont answer this just like you're too ****ing stupid to answer any of my direct questions. You're just mentally incapable. You're uneducated. You come to the battle of wits unarmed.

How am I not a libertarian? Where in my posts have I contradicted the libertarian ethic?

Libertarian socialism is hybrid tripe because the free market will have to be suppressed by force. They are contradictory philosophies. What about libertarianism is it that you claim to follow? It certainly isn't liberty, or free markets, or people being free to live as they chose.

 

[LeftyHenry]

fix your quotes **** head.

 

[saggyjones]

:shock:
Socialism is the antithesis of Libertarianism.

Please read the first post on this page (it's mine).