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European Jewish Congress wants Turkish Islamist group IHH banned in Europe

alexa

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Republic_Of_Public

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Israel has a lot to put up with, not least the united effort by gangs of communists and Islamics to keep the world hostile to it.

One of many little online sores of this nature: YouTube - palermorossa's Channel

Also little chinks to undermine the whole concept of Israeli legitimacy:
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/798/anailin.php
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/win/vol05a/no07a/zionism.htm


Genocidal Islamofascists actually the VICTIMS of what they want to do to the displaced Israelites? Strewth!
http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/palestine/hamas.html



Given the volatile Leftists in the current Democratic Party, I'm hardly surprised at this lunacy either: Klein: School book glorifies communists, socialists, anti-American extremists. Radicals upheld as ‘role models for citizenship in the attempt to win democracy’


Oh look, 'Nazi Kikes' turning the world Zionist to be stopped!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archi...nd-other-things-currently.html#post1058798246



I'm scarcely surprised there are spats leading to murder in extremist clashes between fellow 'revolutionaries' :http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/74564-anti-fascist-murders-neo-nazis.html
 
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alexa

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Well if we are just to be concerned about this, the UK should have cut off all ties with the USA when it's population or parts therof were openly financing the IRA and the State of Israel should never have been formed.

A Danish research institute exposes the links the Turkish organization IHH had - TRCB

Obviously it should be banned.
That being said, I douibt Europe would ban it.
I haven't read the report yet and it is going to be some time before I can but I understand it is a bit ify and it states they have contacts with Al Qaeda which the US says is not the case.
 

alexa

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Israel has a lot to put up with, not least the united effort by gangs of communists and Islamics to keep the world hostile to it.
Ah true to form, republic.

Some points, The European Jewish Congress is not Israel. In addition a large number, certainly of British Jews have left the British one and if it is the same as other organisations of it's kind even those within will have different opinions on this move. I am not interested in antisemitism or Islamophobia.

That being said we do have one religion going against an organisation run by another over a political issue because I think you could be right RoP, it could be because of Israel they are asking for this.

Possibly it is one of the 'let sleeping dog's lie' things and I should just have let it lie.

I would be lying if I did not say it gives me some cause for concern. If bans or enquires are needed they are always better when pursued by people without vested interests.
 
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Apocalypse

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Well if we are just to be concerned about this, the UK should have cut off all ties with the USA when it's population or parts therof were openly financing the IRA and the State of Israel should never have been formed.



I haven't read the report yet and it is going to be some time before I can but I understand it is a bit ify and it states they have contacts with Al Qaeda which the US says is not the case.
If the IHH has ties with Hamas then by all means it should be banned.
We're not speaking here about a link to an organization that promotes the killing of animals for the sake of fur, but connections with an organization that promotes the killing of innocent civilians for the sake of political causes.

But once more, I can't see Europe banning such an organization. Hell would be frozen and pigs would be flying before Europe will ban it.
 

alexa

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If the IHH has ties with Hamas then by all means it should be banned.
We're not speaking here about a link to an organization that promotes the killing of animals for the sake of fur, but connections with an organization that promotes the killing of innocent civilians for the sake of political causes.

But once more, I can't see Europe banning such an organization. Hell would be frozen and pigs would be flying before Europe will ban it.
I think the EU has felt it was a mistake to cut aid to Gaza because Hamas was elected and was wrong not to speak to Hamas. This I agree with. They are the elected people and we know and I imagine you know too, that you don't get change until you speak to people.

I would imagine that whether they are banned or not would depend on what they are doing and the law. Islam4UK for instance got banned in the UK because it was an umbrella organisation for a known terrorist.
 

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Hamas was elected and was wrong not to speak to Hamas.
You seem to have a soft spot for those who perpetuate violence if they think it necessary for their cause.


Indeed, I remember your support for Marxist UAF leader Weyman Bennett, even after his arrest for plotting violence in the Bolton demo. After all, apparently, sometimes a little zesty mayhem is just the tonic when protesting bovver-boys from the other side!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68555-edl-choose-bolton.html



You may think it a point of principle to treat Hamas as legitimate counterparts in conference just to beg them to stop causing chaos. But you can still ban their terrorist mates yet hear what they have to say. Their being in government is immaterial to the level of contempt they should be afforded.


What's good for the goose I suppose. But the consistency falls apart when you realise that Hamas are hardened, unrepentant terrorist killers. They're just as repugnant as Hitler's Nazis, yet we all know your views on Nazis and what happened when we last tried to appease that lot!
 
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alexa

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You seem to have a soft spot for those who perpetuate violence if they think it necessary for their cause. Or at least think it a point of principle to treat them as legitimate counterparts in conference just to beg them to stop causing chaos. Their being in government is immaterial.
You either believe in democracy or you do not. Hamas is the elected representives of Gaza. If you do not speak to them, you have no one to speak to for Gaza.

As for the rest of your trite unrelated to this thread. Start a new thread on your support of the EDL if you want. This is not the thread for that.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Again, erratic intuition appears to marshal your perception of the facts. I think I had to mention that to you before.

Once more, I don't support the EDL. How you seem to confuse my opposition to other yobs taking them on with active support of the EDL is still unclear. And this is confused all the more by you thinking that the EU cutting off its supplies is the same as cutting every single diplomatic tie with Hamas.


And saying 'let sleeping dogs lie' over things like Islamic terror umbrella groups going unbanned in case Hamas get offended proves to be just one more red herring as you now take me to task over my belief in democracy! Quite a few circles we've gone round in today.
 
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alexa

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Again, erratic intuition appears to marshal your perception of the facts. I think I had to mention that to you before.
You are so tiresome, not only do you have to interrupt every thread with your BNP propaganda, you write things that are not even true. I suggest you have a look at the link where you are suggesting I am supporting violence. You will find I am at that moment calling them both children. You have a problem with me I know but please stop interjecting every time you meet me in threads with tripe that happened or rather did not happen in others. If you go on more about this in this thread I will report you. It is not allowed by forum rules to try and hijack threads.

As to my comments concerning 'let sleeping dogs lie' it had zero to do with anyone Islamic. That is the extent to which you fail to understand anything which is written. For you everything is Muslim this, Muslim that Muslim. Get some news, there are other people in the world.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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Hijack? I think you make my point for me. And whining about me being tiresome whilst insisting that I support the EDL from thread to thread and do nothing but parrot BNP propaganda is cheek of the highest order, especially when saying everything for me is 'Muslim this, Muslim that'. We are dealing with the threat to Israel here.

And let's face it, running to the mods when you can't take being prodded back just tops it. I shouldn't flatter yourself that I take time out to persecute you if I were you.



You'll find that you asked for comment on the European Jewish Congress wanting this Turkish Islamic terror umbrella group banned. The article YOU linked to mentioned jihad, Hamas and other terror groups. And the European Jewish Congress is known to be concerned with the Islamists' hatred of Israel and Jews in general.
 

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You'll find that you asked for comment on the European Jewish Congress wanting this Turkish Islamic terror umbrella group banned. The article YOU linked to mentioned jihad, Hamas and other terror groups. And the European Jewish Congress is known to be concerned with the Islamists' hatred of Israel and Jews in general.
That may be so but that was not why I put up the thread. Why I put up the thread was because I felt concerned that the official body of European Jewry, not to be confused with any individual Jew or even Jews in general, were choosing now to come out with this - and this is where letting sleeping dogs lie comes from. (I am sure you still won't get that)

If people have been investigated and nothing has been done then I will not just read what one article says and think they are right. As yet, it doesn't sound convincing because I would have expected something to be done about it. So as yet, I myself cannot speak about IHH. I would be surprised if Free Gaza had chosen to work with terrorists. Very surprised. That is another reason I would not just believe what I saw in one article.

However my concern is more a worry about social cohesion, antisemitism and islamophobia and why European Jewry would feel a need to highlight an organisation which seems to be Muslim rather than some other organisation. That is why do this as a 'Jew' rather than just start an organisation of everyone who wants them banned. Start telling people, providing information, but not as a body of only one section of the community.

Whatever your imagination no European Country wants terrorist groups in it. Furthermore all European countries have Intelligence Agencies which watch what is going on.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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Thank you very much for your clarification.

I better understand your 'sleeping dogs lie' point. But I believe that any tactical timing wouldn't really be relevant as it would be the proverbial bomb whenever it would be released. And I see nothing odd in a specifically Jewish organisation making a loud allegation on this because their ties to Israel would more quickly prompt it.


For me the EJC allegation holds extra water because the Americans too are suspicious:
The Terror Finance Blog: The Terror Financing Aspects of the Free Gaza Flotilla
http://www.fusionfx.net/index.php/2010/06/08/terror-financing-aspects-of-the-free-gaza-flotilla/

Free Gaza's website appears to broadcast not entirely wholesome views on terror from the top rank of Hamas:
Elder of Ziyon: "Free Gaza" admits it supports terrorism

More than just neutral peace campaigners:
The Terror-Supporters of “Free Gaza” : Israellycool


Let them investigate. I'd like to see these things checked out, not to mention the reaction of Hamas to being properly grilled.


____________________________


Mind, I do wonder at your exact meaning of two terms you use. I've heard these before but different people seem to understand them in different ways:

Community Cohesion - Who or what are we trying to fuse and in which direction?

European Jewry - What on Earth is this? What does it run and for who? Or is it just some homogenous mass?
 
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Infinite Chaos

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-- What do people think about this?
I think it's interesting and would set a strange precedent. It would help if the EJC would clarify exactly which European body they are asking to ban the IHH.

I also noted that their article claims only one of the flotilla boats was organised by the IHH - much in contrast to claims made on another thread in the breaking news forum that the who flotilla was set up by the IHH.

-- I can't see Europe banning such an organization. Hell would be frozen and pigs would be flying before Europe will ban it.
There is no mechanism by which "Europe" can ban a group across every individual member country.

Turkey isn't part of the EU anyway so an EU ban would be equally meaningless - even if the EU Parliament could force each member country to ban a political group it probably wouldn't because that would be such a major infringement on each member countries sovereignty.
 

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I think it's interesting and would set a strange precedent. It would help if the EJC would clarify exactly which European body they are asking to ban the IHH.

There is no mechanism by which "Europe" can ban a group across every individual member country.

Turkey isn't part of the EU anyway so an EU ban would be equally meaningless - even if the EU Parliament could force each member country to ban a political group it probably wouldn't because that would be such a major infringement on each member countries sovereignty.
Good points. I am only learning about the IHH. I had assumed there must be several branches across EU countries.

There is also speculation in the ME section that Erdogan knew that there would be violence on board.
 
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alexa

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A Danish research institute exposes the links the Turkish organization IHH had - TRCB

Obviously it should be banned.
That being said, I douibt Europe would ban it.
Your link did not work for me but I am assuming that it is the same link as Don gave in the ME section. I have now had a look at the paper. The main argument against IHH here appears to be that they were helping Al Qaeda. As the US has said this is not the case, I do not find this has shown this is a terrorist group and the fact that it has given information which is not true loses it's credibility to me.

Certainly it gives truckloads of aid to places where Muslims are impoverised. I heard it started after the Bosnian war.
 

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Your link did not work for me but I am assuming that it is the same link as Don gave in the ME section. I have now had a look at the paper. The main argument against IHH here appears to be that they were helping Al Qaeda. As the US has said this is not the case, I do not find this has shown this is a terrorist group and the fact that it has given information which is not true loses it's credibility to me.

Certainly it gives truckloads of aid to places where Muslims are impoverised. I heard it started after the Bosnian war.
The IHH became a "terrorist group" once Israel fubared the flotilla raid. Before that no one had really heard of them. Not the first time the "terrorist" organisation has been thrown on one party in such a dispute... makes it more "legal" to go after them. Now showing actual evidence of any links is almost never presented with such accusations.
 

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The IHH became a "terrorist group" once Israel fubared the flotilla raid. Before that no one had really heard of them. Not the first time the "terrorist" organisation has been thrown on one party in such a dispute... makes it more "legal" to go after them. Now showing actual evidence of any links is almost never presented with such accusations.
Heh, you're only making even more fun of yourself Pete, if that's even possible right now.
The Danish research institute report is from 2006.
 

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Heh, you're only making even more fun of yourself Pete, if that's even possible right now.
The Danish research institute report is from 2006.
and?

Point is that it is easy as hell to paint someone or some organisation as "terrorist", but actually providing proof is quite hard. Look at the US involvement in Iraq. For a very long time the line between insurgents and terrorists was quite vague and insurgent's were more than often called "terrorists" because at the time it suited the US military and politicians. The term terrorist is thrown around far to much to actually mean anything any more, much like anti-semite.

And the report only provides limited actual proof and more than often, if not exclusively from 3rd parties.. you know hearsay.

And so what if the report was written in 2006, it is being brought forward now to slam the organisation and as "proof" of their ties. The actual investigation into the organisation happened almost a decade ago.. Tell me this then, IF the Turks had investigated the organisation back in 2002 or whenever and the links were real, do you think they would be allowed to exist still?

Now that is not saying that I dont believe or believe that the organisation in question has ties to AL Q, but I find it a highly convenient claim by Israel all of a sudden, especially since they provide no proof what so ever. But if they are able to paint the flotilla with link to terror groups then the justification of the attack is so much easier. Hence I am highly sceptical, especially since the accusations were pretty much floated and promoted after the attack and not before.
 

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And that means you were completely wrong, once more.
Apparently you're so used to it that you do not even take it hard.

Besides that the rest of your comment has done nothing to discredit and/or cast doubt over the Danish institute for research's claims.
 

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And that means you were completely wrong, once more.
Apparently you're so used to it that you do not even take it hard.

Besides that the rest of your comment has done nothing to discredit and/or cast doubt over the Danish institute for research's claims.
I did not attempt to discredit or cast doubt over the institutes claims. I only pointed out it is an old study, based on even older information, and based solely on 3rd party information with out any documentation.

And in what way am I wrong?
 

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Pete who is the Danish Institute for International Studies run by? It says it is Independent.

Home - DIIS
 

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And in what way am I wrong?
You said that only after the flotilla raid it was declared that the IHH has ties to terrorist organizations.
That was an outright lie.
 

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What do people think about this?

I think that instead of a ban, western democracies need to educate their citizens on the subject matter instead of acting as one of the agents that enables their spread.

With so many useful idiots living in the west, Islamism prospers because they are abetted through the media and through the illogical notion that rejecting totalitarianism is a taboo as long as the totalitarianism arises from those outside one's own cultural group.
 
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