EU Court Says File Sharers Don't Have to be Named

[Hatuey]

Thanks for your constructive American way of debating. Again it makes me put down notes in my diary that I am an ACTUAL high intellectual for having manners when I debate and a proper way to do so(unless some America actually manage to drag me down to his level).

Says the guy who thinks if you can't afford something you should have the right to steal it. :2wave:

What has this got to do with France?
Capitalism yes, a just society? Hmm, its starting to become one. Socialism is the ultimate justice.

LoL - A commie. Why am I not surprised? Tell me genius. How many famous Cuban singers do you know that don't live outside of Cuba making money? Even in socialist societies musicians sell their music and I don't believe they'd be too happy if some French jerkoff tried to steal it.

Again, this brings up the question hatman.. If a person cannot afford to eat, is it just that he steals food to survive?

No. Stealing is stealing. You should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Specially if you live in a society that has rules like ours. Bring up as many examples of lawless countries like Somalia and examples of oppressed countries in Africa. Doesn't change my opinion one bit.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

What a buffoon. A business can not survive by offering a free product.

Yet, Linux companies do.. The ones who give away Linux distributions.. The company behind wikipedia survives.. Business models of the future.. Besides, the point was not that the product had to be free, the point was that businesses need to have a good product or service sold or presented in a good way in order to call them a business.. In my opinon, businesses who only survive because of a patent is no more than a rotten leech business creation of the modern world, leeches that drain on the society, companies who milk the people without anything. No better than people who steal.

 

[Hatuey]

Yet, Linux companies do..

Linux doesn't survive from offering free products. Have you been on Linux? They have more advertisement then Yahoo and Google combined.

Linux.com :: Feature

And even then "Linux" is not a product. You don't pay to download Linux. The creators of Linux offer it 100% free. If they don't feel like making money off Linux thats fine. That has nothing to do with people wanting to make off money from a product they create.

The ones who give away Linux distributions.. The company behind wikipedia survives..

Wikipedia is non-profit. They don't even offer "a produt". People write for Wikipedia and they pay for the website to be kept running. Case and point their yearly money "charity" where they basically beg Wikipedia users for money so that they can keep the server running. Thanks for showing your ignorance

Business models of the future.. Besides, the point was not that the product had to be free, the point was that businesses need to have a good product or service sold or presented in a good way in order to call them a business.. In my opinon, businesses who only survive because of a patent is no more than a rotten leech business creation of the modern world, leeches that drain on the society, companies who milk the people without anything. No better than people who steal.

Once again you have provided not a single argument as to why you should have the right to steal music if you can't afford it. If you can't educate yourself without music. Get a free book from the library. If you can't watch television because you don't have cable. Sucks for you. You don't get to steal cable. If you can't afford food then I guess life sucks for you. You don't have the right to steal it. Beg for money, pimp yourself, shake money out of trees. I don't care as long as you don't try and steal.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Says the guy who thinks if you can't afford something you should have the right to steal it. :2wave:

:mrgreen: Again, I didn't say that.. I said its ok with food and things necessary to survive. I do believe until the music industry have a good way of distributing that will enable people to build a collection of music, as easy as with downloads, at a decent price, then people have no more reason to steal music.

LoL - A commie. Why am I not surprised? Tell me genius. How many famous Cuban singers do you know that don't live outside of Cuba making money? Even in socialist societies musicians sell their music and I don't believe they'd be too happy if some French jerkoff tried to steal it.

As a European I am obviously not a communist, nor just a simple capitalist. I prefer a model of socialism AND capitalism, side by side. I also prefer to mix their way of ruling, to create a technocracy on top of the idiot democracy in order to make the society work efficiently and have a top modern government like that of the European Union technocracy to complete out idiot national democracies.

Why do I say idiot democracy? Because in a democracy its not the minority of intellectual who decides, not the top 20% of the population, but the average, who tends to be a bloody bunch of morons and idiots, not only in the US, but also in Europe(although a bit less so) :mrgreen:

No. Stealing is stealing. You should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Specially if you live in a society that has rules like ours. Bring up as many examples of lawless countries like Somalia and examples of oppressed countries in Africa. Doesn't change my opinion one bit.

No point debating this anymore then, since we can agree that we have different opinions on humanitarian and social issues.

 

[Hatuey]

:mrgreen: Again, I didn't say that.. I said its ok with food and things necessary to survive. I do believe until the music industry have a good way of distributing that will enable people to build a collection of music, as easy as with downloads, at a decent price, then people have no more reason to steal music.

$1 a song. Doesn't get easier then that. And yes you did say that if you don't have the money to pay for something you should be allowed to steal it.

As a European I am obviously not a communist, nor just a simple capitalist.

Alright Kim.

I prefer a model of socialism AND capitalism, side by side. I also prefer to mix their way of ruling, to create a technocracy on top of the idiot democracy in order to make the society work efficiently and have a top modern government like that of the European Union technocracy to complete out idiot national democracies.

Uh huh. Get back to me when you acknowledge that there is no excuse for stealing in our society. Doesn't matter how poor you are.

Why do I say idiot democracy? Because in a democracy its not the minority of intellectual who decides, not the top 20% of the population, but the average, who tends to be a bloody bunch of morons and idiots, not only in the US, but also in Europe(although a bit less so) :mrgreen:

The people shouldn't rule. Idiots who think you are justified in stealing should.

No point debating this anymore then, since we can agree that we have different opinions on humanitarian and social issues.

It's so sad when you can't justify stealing isn't it?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Linux doesn't survive from offering free products. Have you been on Linux? They have more advertisement then Yahoo and Google combined.

Linux.com :: Feature

Yet, they give their products away for free :shock:

If they survive on marketing as you say, maybe thats a model for the music industry to try, alongside making their distribution better.

Wikipedia is non-profit. They don't even offer "a produt". People write for Wikipedia and they pay for the website to be kept running. Case and point their yearly money "charity" where they basically beg Wikipedia users for money so that they can keep the server running. Thanks for showing your ignorance

Actually, thanks for showing of YOUR ignorance..

Wikipedia IS a product.
Wikipedia received far more in donations than the cost of their servers, they dont need to beg. An its no annual even.. There is even a list of the people who continuously donate on the wikipedia page..
Wikipedia is GREAT
Linux is GREAT

Once again you have provided not a single argument as to why you should have the right to steal music if you can't afford it. If you can't educate yourself without music. Get a free book from the library. If you can't watch television because you don't have cable. Sucks for you. You don't get to steal cable. If you can't afford food then I guess life sucks for you. You don't have the right to steal it. Beg for money, pimp yourself, shake money out of trees. I don't care as long as you don't try and steal.

I never said people have the right to steal music, I explained why I find it alright that some people do. I actually thing its great that people do. I wish they stole more books.:roll:

If you dont have cable but the knowledge about how to get it without paying for its, you get to steal cable if you want. If you are a cable company, you better offer a better service than the 50 channels available by default(without a box, in Europe) in order to make money.

If you cannot afford food, you are going to die, the right to life justifies stealing food in order to survive.

 

[Hatuey]

Yet, they give their products away for free :shock:

Do you even know what a product is? Here. I'll give you a clue from Wikipedia.

Product (business) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A product is a good or service which can be bought and sold. In marketing, a product is anything that can be offered to a market that might satisfy a want or need.[1] In retailing, products are called merchandise. In manufacturing, products are purchased as raw materials and sold as finished goods. Commodities are usually raw materials such as metals and agricultural products, but a commodity can also be anything widely available in the open market.

The verb produce (prə doos' or -dyoos') is from the Latin prōdūce(re), (to) lead or bring forth. The noun product (prod'əkt or-ukt) is "a thing produced by labor or effort".[2] Since 1575, the word "product" has referred to anything produced.[3] Since 1695, the word has referred to "thing or things produced". The economic or commercial meaning of product was first used by political economist Adam Smith.[4]

Your clear ignorance of the subject is very telling.

If they survive on marketing as you say, maybe thats a model for the music industry to try, alongside making their distribution better.

Ummm they don't survive on marketing. They survive through donations. That is not what a business is. In business you survive by offering a product and charging a fee for said product.

Actually, thanks for showing of YOUR ignorance..

Wikipedia IS a product.

False.

Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia (IPA: /ˌwɪkɨˈpiːdiə/, /ˌwiːkiˈpiːdiə/, /ˌwɪkiˈpiːdiə/ or /ˌwiːkiˈpeɪdiə/) (Audio (U.S.) (help·info)) is a free,[4] multilingual, open content encyclopedia project operated by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation. Its name is a portmanteau of the words wiki (a type of collaborative website) and encyclopedia. Launched in 2001 by Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger, it is the largest, fastest growing and most popular general reference work currently available on the Internet.[5][6]

Where is the product? What is being sold? You clearly ignorance of what is and isn't a product shows.

Wikipedia received far more in donations than the cost of their servers, they dont need to beg.

LOL "donations" "begging". Same thing.

An its no annual even.. There is even a list of the people who continuously donate on the wikipedia page..
Wikipedia is GREAT

And it's still not a product. Until it's being sold. It's not a product.

Linux is GREAT

Great for Linux. Just go on Linux and you'll see that the money being made is clearly by putting half a million HP ads on their apge.

I never said people have the right to steal music, I explained why I find it alright that some people do. I actually thing its great that people do. I wish they stole more books.:roll:

False. You provided some false idea that if poor Europeans can't afford music they should steal it.

If you dont have cable but the knowledge about how to get it without paying for its, you get to steal cable if you want. If you are a cable company, you better offer a better service than the 50 channels available by default(without a box, in Europe) in order to make money.

Doesn't justify stealing it. If you don't like what companies offer. Don't buy.

If you cannot afford food, you are going to die, the right to life justifies stealing food in order to survive.

False. The "right to life" has NEVER justified stealing. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN KIND has there been a society where it has been acceptable to steal if you can't afford food. NEVER. The law has ALWAYS been exercised. It doesn't matter how poor the person is. Whether the society is a socialist or a capitalist or even a communist one.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Do you even know what a product is? Here. I'll give you a clue from Wikipedia.

Product (business) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Your clear ignorance of the subject is very telling.

But Linux CAN be sold and bought and it surely meet needs. How is Ubuntu Linux for example not a product? How is it possible for you to start arguing about technicalities when the debate is not about that. But since you want to ALSO debate that(and loose), Linux is most definetly a product.

Ummm they don't survive on marketing. They survive through donations. That is not what a business is. In business you survive by offering a product and charging a fee for said product.

You were the one who said that, one post ago.. You seems to not even have an idea what Linux is.. I use Linux yes, because Windows not only sucks, but its also a corporation with low ethics and morals, and the only way they are staying in the market is because of their illegal cooperation with the hardware industry, making it in effect a monopoly or a dictator of the computer market. Such a low company, doesn't deserve to even have their lame *** product cracked, they just deserve not to be used, to be ignored.

False.

Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you have to argue irrelevant things? Besides, as usual, you are wrong, even about the things you debate to avoid debating the real issue.

Products - definition of Products by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
prod·uct (prdkt)
n.
1. Something produced by human or mechanical effort or by a natural process.

Where is the product? What is being sold? You clearly ignorance of what is and isn't a product shows.

:ind::toilet:

LOL "donations" "begging". Same thing.

In an American debate this proves you are wrong about everything, because I caught you being wrong about a technicality, a tiny part of something in a larger debate. Thus you loose and the personal attacks can start.. You hair looks silly..

You want me to enter the definitions for those two words or can you do it yourself? :mrgreen:

And it's still not a product. Until it's being sold. It's not a product.

I think you have a wrong definition of product in your head.. One wrong things can create a domino effect.. :screwy

Great for Linux. Just go on Linux and you'll see that the money being made is clearly by putting half a million HP ads on their apge.

If this post isnt humiliating enough for you, you seem to have no idea what Linux is.. Thats not your fault. I will inform you.. Here, take a look.

Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux distribution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I said its completely ok, and beneficial yes. Also for Americans who cannot afford it.

Doesn't justify stealing it. If you don't like what companies offer. Don't buy.

And thats what people do, they avoid the product, but still get the music and artist they like, by downloading the music. :lol:

False. The "right to life" has NEVER justified stealing. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN KIND has there been a society where it has been acceptable to steal if you can't afford food. NEVER. The law has ALWAYS been exercised. It doesn't matter how poor the person is. Whether the society is a socialist or a capitalist or even a communist one.

America dont havee a right to life, Europe does. And obviously, if you have the right to life, you have the right to survive. And yes, we dont live in a society of 200 years ago, or even 50 years ago. We live in present time, which you Americans seems to have difficulties grasping.

 

[Hatuey]

But Linux CAN be sold and bought and it surely meet needs. How is Ubuntu Linux for example not a product? How is it possible for you to start arguing about technicalities when the debate is not about that. But since you want to ALSO debate that(and loose), Linux is most definetly a product.

Why do you keep pushing with ridiculous examples? Ubuntu makes money by allowing DELL PCs to sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed. They're still making a profit. They are selling their product. They don't make money by allowing idiots like you download Ubuntu and think it's all run by people on good will that don't bow down to the might of corporations.

Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu

You were the one who said that, one post ago.. You seems to not even have an idea what Linux is.. I use Linux yes, because Windows not only sucks, but its also a corporation with low ethics and morals, and the only way they are staying in the market is because of their illegal cooperation with the hardware industry, making it in effect a monopoly or a dictator of the computer market. Such a low company, doesn't deserve to even have their lame *** product cracked, they just deserve not to be used, to be ignored.

Windows isn't a Corporation. Microsoft is a corporation. Why am I not surprised you wouldn't know that Windows isn't a company.

Why do you have to argue irrelevant things? Besides, as usual, you are wrong, even about the things you debate to avoid debating the real issue.

Products - definition of Products by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
prod·uct (prdkt)
n.
1. Something produced by human or mechanical effort or by a natural process.

ROFL - What a complete idiot. We're talking about economics 101 here. In economics a product is something that created and sold. Keep up.

In an American debate this proves you are wrong about everything, because I caught you being wrong about a technicality, a tiny part of something in a larger debate. Thus you loose and the personal attacks can start.. You hair looks silly..

You want me to enter the definitions for those two words or can you do it yourself? :mrgreen:

ROFL - You can complain all you want. Wikipedia runs on people who pay for it. They make no money from being free. They simply don't. Wikipedia isn't a product. It's not sold to anybody. They are completely free and non-profit. Therefor every few months they beg their readers to send them money.

I think you have a wrong definition of product in your head.. One wrong things can create a domino effect.. :screwy

Yawn.

product - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry:
prod·uct Listen to the pronunciation of product
Pronunciation:
\ˈprä-(ˌ)dəkt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
in sense 1, from Middle English, from Medieval Latin productum, from Latin, something produced, from neuter of productus, past participle of producere; in other senses, from Latin productum
Date:
15th century

1: the number or expression resulting from the multiplication together of two or more numbers or expressions2 a (1): something produced; especially : commodity 1 (2): something (as a service) that is marketed or sold as a commodity b: something resulting from or necessarily following from a set of conditions <a product of his environment>

Why even try this with me silly French man? Do you not think I know what a product is?

If this post isnt humiliating enough for you, you seem to have no idea what Linux is.. Thats not your fault. I will inform you.. Here, take a look.

Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux distribution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you continue to prove my point? Just go on Linux.com and you'll see that they provide a free version of Linux and yet their website is flooded with ad space. Why is this? Could it be that they simply aren't making money from something that is free?

I said its completely ok, and beneficial yes. Also for Americans who cannot afford it.

No. It's not "ok" for anybody to steal if they can't afford something.

And thats what people do, they avoid the product, but still get the music and artist they like, by downloading the music. :lol:

The music IS the product you complete buffoon. You don't buy a CD. You purchase music. You don't buy a canvas. You buy a painting. "The art" is what is being sold. Not what it was made on.

America dont havee a right to life, Europe does. And obviously, if you have the right to life, you have the right to survive. And yes, we dont live in a society of 200 years ago, or even 50 years ago. We live in present time, which you Americans seems to have difficulties grasping.

LOL - You're an idiot. There is not a single successful society in modern on ancient times that has gotten by on freebies. Not a single one. It doesn't whether that society has the greatest thinkers in the world. There hasn't been a society that has gotten by on goodwill and offering free sh!t to people who can't afford it. There has never been a society in modern or ancient times that has allowed people to steal without repercussion. Not a single one. Your refusal to understand this silly fact of life just shows why you should never be hired by any company that intends of making a profit.

 

[Adrian]

Obviously this is true. The paint, the canvas, the brush are all material things, but the art that they all create is not; art is a concept, and as such it exists only in our mind.

It's quite obvious, really, to someone that actually puts a few minutes of thought into the subject.

Oh, I have put a few minutes of thought into the subject, and from everything that I've seen in this thread, you're rationalizing why you are allowed to reap the rewards of everybody else's labor and creativity without compensating them for it.

"Cd's are the product but the audio files are not - I'm allowed to take them."

"The canvas is the product, but the painting on it is only the concept - I'm allowed to take it."

Given that type of rationalization, you can twist anything into an immaterial thing appropriate to steal. I'm not saying you're completely amoral since you're bothering to rationalize this in the first place (an amoral person would comfortably call it stealing and do it anyway), but the result is very, very immoral. I wonder if you'd be able to proudly show your face, in person, to those people you happily justify stealing from.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Why do you keep pushing with ridiculous examples? Ubuntu makes money by allowing DELL PCs to sell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed. They're still making a profit. They are selling their product. They don't make money by allowing idiots like you download Ubuntu and think it's all run by people on good will that don't bow down to the might of corporations.

Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu

Ridiculous examples? You said that no company can give away their product and survive. I proved you wrong, ut you insist on being the clown in this debate. Trolling is what you are actually doing..

Ubuntu is free, thats its foundation, the product is free. Beyond that, the company making it can make money from donations, sales of CDs, sales of their products, marketing, etc. But that doesnt make the product non free, because its free, and that is what its all about..

I use Linux, you dont even know what it is, so why make yourself look even more like a US presidential candidate by making a clown of yourself, and using non relevant arguments?

Windows isn't a Corporation. Microsoft is a corporation. Why am I not surprised you wouldn't know that Windows isn't a company.

I am full aware of that, I was talking about the corporation behind Microsoft.. Are you so pettyfull that you cannot find better arguments like this? What are you trying to prove with that little pathetic stunt?

ROFL - What a complete idiot. We're talking about economics 101 here. In economics a product is something that created and sold. Keep up.

if you want to continue believing that, you can.. A product is what I gave you the definition for. product: Definition, Synonyms and Much More from Answers.com

An effort produced a result, and if that is a thing, its a product.. You simply cannot understand the difference between a product and merchandize. This is irrelevant anyways, but if you want to debate in this silly American fashion, I will humor you.

ROFL - You can complain all you want. Wikipedia runs on people who pay for it. They make no money from being free. They simply don't. Wikipedia isn't a product. It's not sold to anybody. They are completely free and non-profit. Therefor every few months they beg their readers to send them money.

Wikipedia is definetley a product, something dont have to be sold top be a product, it have to be made. Wikipedia is the products of the efforts of thousands of people.

Why even try this with me silly French man? Do you not think I know what a product is?

You Americans keep talking about the French, perhaps its envy of their superior intellect, elegance and a superior society? Most Americans come off as primitive monkeys in any debate with a French, for sure..(wow, I am sinking to your level, slowly..)

Why do you continue to prove my point? Just go on Linux.com and you'll see that they provide a free version of Linux and yet their website is flooded with ad space. Why is this? Could it be that they simply aren't making money from something that is free?

You still have no idea what Linux is.. If you only knew what a fool you look like in this debate, then you would apologize for being so silly. Linux is not Linux.com, the page that represent Linux is The Linux Kernel Archives
Linux.com is nothing but leechpage, who were lucky enough to buy the domain.

The music IS the product you complete buffoon. You don't buy a CD. You purchase music. You don't buy a canvas. You buy a painting. "The art" is what is being sold. Not what it was made on.

Sorry, this misunderstanding was actually my fault.. I meant, they avoid the companies who do things the wrong way, but still end up with the product..

LOL - You're an idiot. There is not a single successful society in modern on ancient times that has gotten by on freebies. Not a single one. It doesn't whether that society has the greatest thinkers in the world. There hasn't been a society that has gotten by on goodwill and offering free sh!t to people who can't afford it. There has never been a society in modern or ancient times that has allowed people to steal without repercussion. Not a single one. Your refusal to understand this silly fact of life just shows why you should never be hired by any company that intends of making a profit.

In most societies of the past, people killed other people to get by..

 

[Hatuey]

Ridiculous examples? You said that no company can give away their product and survive.I proved you wrong, ut you insist on being the clown in this debate. Trolling is what you are actually doing..

:rofl - What a silly person you are. I said no company can make money by giving away their product and you proved this by showing that Ubuntu is making a profit by letting morons like yourself buy DELL PCs and think that the OS comes free.

Ubuntu is free, thats its foundation, the product is free. Beyond that, the company making it can make money from donations, sales of CDs, sales of their products, marketing, etc. But that doesnt make the product non free, because its free, and that is what its all about.

.

And yet Ubuntu makes money by letting you morons buy DELL PCs. Do you think that they could survive by letting people simply keep downloading? Where would the money for their developers come from? Who pays for the people in charge of developing software? The interface? Your complete ignorance of how a market and it's players work is truly sad. You think that a company can survive by making absolutely no profit and selling nothing. Then show this by putting a company that is clearly selling their product via proxy.

I use Linux, you dont even know what it is, so why make yourself look even more like a US presidential candidate by making a clown of yourself, and using non relevant arguments?

Says the guy who thinks Windows is a company.

I am full aware of that, I was talking about the corporation behind Microsoft.. Are you so pettyfull that you cannot find better arguments like this? What are you trying to prove with that little pathetic stunt?

The corporation behind Microsoft? Microsoft is the corporation. You silly frenchman you've tried to justify stealing and failed miserably. Why do you continue? You're a pirate. The equivalent of scum. Hiding behind bullshit claims of education. All the while touting the mighty Euro but not being able to afford $1 songs.

if you want to continue believing that, you can.. A product is what I gave you the definition for.

And you keep ignoring that we're talking about economics. In economics a product is something that sold and bought. Why even try this game? Whats wrong? Tu ne comprend pas l'anglais? Dans l'economie un produit est un article qu'est achete et vendu par le consommateur.

An effort produced a result, and if that is a thing, its a product.. You simply cannot understand the difference between a product and merchandize. This is irrelevant anyways, but if you want to debate in this silly American fashion, I will humor you.

Why do you continue this semantics game when you know you're wrong? "Merchandize" is what "products" are called in retailing. Why even try this?

Wikipedia is definetley a product, something dont have to be sold top be a product, it have to be made. Wikipedia is the products of the efforts of thousands of people.

:rofl - A product in business is an item that is sold/bought. Where is the profit being made from Wikipedia? Where are the stock options? Shareholders? Obviously such a big and free non-profit business would yield billions of dollars a year. But it doesn't does it now? So where is the "product" part of it? Thanks for proving why should never be allowed to do anything other then hand customers their coffee cups at Starbucks.

You Americans keep talking about the French, perhaps its envy of their superior intellect, elegance and a superior society? Most Americans come off as primitive monkeys in any debate with a French, for sure..(wow, I am sinking to your level, slowly..)

Hahhahaha it's funny to watch you squirm. You provided examples of 1. A company who makes a profit by letting idiots like yourself buy their product even though they're getting a free OS with their computer. Then you provided another example of a non-profit company that makes absolutely no money with it's "product". They must beg their users for money so they can keep their servers running. Yeah. I think I made my point that no company can possibly survive by simply giving away something that is 100% free. You're more then welcome to tell me how this huge misdirection on your part justifies stealing.

You still have no idea what Linux is.. If you only knew what a fool you look like in this debate, then you would apologize for being so silly. Linux is not Linux.com, the page that represent Linux is The Linux Kernel Archives
Linux.com is nothing but leechpage, who were lucky enough to buy the domain.

Why do you continue to keep looking stupid? Linux.com is not a leechpage. Case and point their pandering to HP on their source page.

The Linux Kernel Archives

Jun 30, 2007: European servers! Thanks to Hewlett-Packard, ISC and Umeå Universitet, we are introducing new kernel.org servers at ISC in Amsterdam and Umeå Universitet, Sweden. These servers are available as a round-robin as The Linux Kernel Archives, ftp.eu.kernel.org, and rsync.eu.kernel.org.

May 20, 2007: New servers! We have received two new DL380 G5 servers from Hewlett-Packard. These servers are dual quad-core Xeon E5335 servers with 16 GB RAM per server, and 15000 RPM SAS disks.

# Feb 4, 2006: Hewlett-Packard has been kind enough to replace our internal master server with a brand new ProLiant DL385 with a dual-core Opteron 275 and 4 GB of RAM. Once again, huge thanks to HP!
# Sep 30, 2005: By popular demand, there is now a kernel.org FAQ.

#
# Apr 9, 2005: We have put two new external servers, graciously donated by Hewlett-Packard into full production use.

Could it be that as a result they have HP plastered all over Linux.com?

Linux.com :: Sponsor Solutions

Open Source and Linux from HP

From nine consecutive years of Linux market leadership to countless sponsorships, IT contributions, and innovative programs to support the open source community, HP is the advisor you can trust with proven solutions you can value.

Learn more now about open source and Linux from HP, including our latest HP BladeSystem c-Class - the innovative, adaptive infrastructure in a 17" box.

Wow. I guess you can't make any money from being free and you actually need money to pay for people to keep working.

Sorry, this misunderstanding was actually my fault.. I meant, they avoid the companies who do things the wrong way, but still end up with the product..

ROFL - How can you avoid a company and yet keep downloading their product? What a complete idiot. "Yeah I'll avoid Adobe by downloading Photoshop". Do avoiding a company by not paying for their product but still using it is stealing? Yeah I'll avoid Interscope but I'll download their music anyway.

In most societies of the past, people killed other people to get by..

Uh huh and "killing" was illegal back then and it still is today. Thanks for proving why you're a French buffoon who should never do more then make French fries at a McDonalds in Belgium.

 

[Hatuey]

The Linux Kernel Archives

Aug 17, 2007: We have been recognized by the IRS as a 501(c)3 nonprofit corporation.

Adding yeah...Linux is a product. Even though they make absolutely no money from their corporation. Linux is a product. Hahahahahahaha what an idiot.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Oh, I have put a few minutes of thought into the subject, and from everything that I've seen in this thread, you're rationalizing why you are allowed to reap the rewards of everybody else's labor and creativity without compensating them for it.

"Cd's are the product but the audio files are not - I'm allowed to take them."

"The canvas is the product, but the painting on it is only the concept - I'm allowed to take it."

Actually I haven't made any such rationalization. Also, your logic kind of falls apart because one can't "take the music" without the audio file or "take the art" without taking the painting.

 

[Adrian]

Actually I haven't made any such rationalization. Also, your logic kind of falls apart because one can't "take the music" without the audio file or "take the art" without taking the painting.

My logic is fine, you're just trying to twist and move the goal posts (or at least change the subject). This isn't about taking concepts but about taking products. I never even said that one can take the "music" or the "art." That was all you.

 

[Hatuey]

My logic is fine, you're just trying to twist and move the goal posts (or at least change the subject). This isn't about taking concepts but about taking products. I never even said that one can take the "music" or the "art." That was all you.

It's funny to watch Khayembii argue that you pay $20 for a CD and not what is on the CD or that you pay for a canvas and not what is on the canvas. I wish I got paid for PNG/RAW files and not what is in them. Have you ever even heard of a $20 CD? You can go to any Wal-Mart and get a pack of 50 blank CDs/DVDs for $14-$25 bucks depending on the brand. Thats how much stores sell it for. Can you imagine how much they get it for? I'd be willing to bet you anything that stores get a box of a thousand CDs for less then $40. It's almost funny to watch people argue against companies wanting to make a profit and then with the same face steal from these companies. It's only seems to be pirates though. Have you ever seen anybody from PETA wearing a fur coat? No? I didn't think so. What about people who oppose child slavery wearing Nike or GAP? No? I didn't think so. You will however see people who are against Microsoft using MSN and Hotmail. You'll catch them with bootleg versions of Photoshop & Painter. They'll justify their theft by bringing up examples of poor Africans not being able to afford sh!t and stealing and yet they can't name a single civilization where stealing has been justified or legal. Where taking a product, item, piece of merchandise which is not yours, has been justified. There isn't a single one. Not one. Then morons like Zeebrus Idiotus will tell you how that is how old civilizations use to do it and how he's a socialist. What a retarded cvnt. I dare anybody to come up with a single society with a system of laws where taking what is not yours or what you haven't paid for has been justified. You won't find one. People who argue that they illegally download software to voice their anger are lying to themselves. You aren't interested in poor Africans or educating retarded Arabs in your banlieues. If you were France wouldn't have had riots the way they did. If illegal downloading was the answer to the lack of education and opportunity the poor Europeans faced then the problem would have been solved 5-10 years ago. But it hasn't. You pretend like you actually have a right to steal the hard work of other people without paying a dime. You are leeches to this society. Scum. Lower then scum. You are the dirt bellow my brand new Adidas shoes made in West Java by poor Indonesian kids.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

:rofl - What a silly person you are. I said no company can make money by giving away their product and you proved this by showing that Ubuntu is making a profit by letting morons like yourself buy DELL PCs and think that the OS comes free.

I dont have a dell.. I use Debian GNU/Linux which is also a free operating system, far better than Microsoft Windows Vista if I might add. I downloaded it for free from their official page. Ubuntu is also free, you can download it and install it on any PC.. Your enormous lack of knowledge about what you are talking about in this thread is making you look like a terrorist posing as a stupid American, in order to even lower the American image further.. :shock:
Download Ubuntu | Ubuntu

And yet Ubuntu makes money by letting you morons buy DELL PCs. Do you think that they could survive by letting people simply keep downloading? Where would the money for their developers come from? Who pays for the people in charge of developing software? The interface? Your complete ignorance of how a market and it's players work is truly sad. You think that a company can survive by making absolutely no profit and selling nothing. Then show this by putting a company that is clearly selling their product via proxy.

Linux distributions like Ubuntu and Debian isnt developed by a dedicated team, its developed by the public and put together by a team of experts. Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu makes money from all kind of things, but they still give away their excellent product, Ubuntu Linux.

Says the guy who thinks Windows is a company.

So you dont read my posts? Becuase I just told you I didnt believe that, its just a misunderstanding.. Now you are about to make me sink to your level and start calling you names. But not yet.. Id..

The corporation behind Microsoft? Microsoft is the corporation. You silly frenchman you've tried to justify stealing and failed miserably. Why do you continue? You're a pirate. The equivalent of scum. Hiding behind bullshit claims of education. All the while touting the mighty Euro but not being able to afford $1 songs.

I do what the laws allow me, I do what my knowledge allow me, which is apparently far more than you.

You are doing nothing but trolling her Hatuey, I do have to report you soon. I can afford many songs, but I prefer to boycot the US at the moment by not buyng US products. This boycot also includes legally pirating US products, and not using Micropoly Winlows. I prefer to use free software, linux. Only America thing I pay for is.. Haagen Daachs ice cream/ The rest I buy in European goods or find other alternatives.

And you keep ignoring that we're talking about economics. In economics a product is something that sold and bought. Why even try this game? Whats wrong? Tu ne comprend pas l'anglais? Dans l'economie un produit est un article qu'est achete et vendu par le consommateur.

Products doesnt have anything to do with economy. A product is something that is produced.

Why do you continue this semantics game when you know you're wrong? "Merchandize" is what "products" are called in retailing. Why even try this?

I am playing the game here? This is all irrelevant anyways.. :rofl

:rofl - A product in business is an item that is sold/bought. Where is the profit being made from Wikipedia? Where are the stock options? Shareholders? Obviously such a big and free non-profit business would yield billions of dollars a year. But it doesn't does it now? So where is the "product" part of it? Thanks for proving why I should never be allowed to do anything other then hand customers their coffee cups at Starbucks.

I Agree, it would be a nice responsibility for you to hand customers their coffee.

Hahhahaha it's funny to watch you squirm. You provided examples of 1. A company who makes a profit by letting idiots like yourself buy their product even though they're getting a free OS with their computer. Then you provided another example of a non-profit company that makes absolutely no money with it's "product". They must beg their users for money so they can keep their servers running. Yeah. I think I made my point that no company can possibly survive by simply giving away something that is 100% free. You're more then welcome to tell me how this huge misdirection on your part justifies stealing.

You know nothing about the real world, and you definetely have no idea what Linux and Linux distroes are all about.

You dont even know that social-capitalism is taking over motherfu****.

Why do you continue to keep looking stupid? Linux.com is not a leechpage. Case and point their pandering to HP on their source page.

The Linux Kernel Archives

Linux.com has nothing to do with Linux..

Could it be that as a result they have HP plastered all over Linux.com?

Linux.com :: Sponsor Solutions



Wow. I guess you can't make any money from being free and you actually need money to pay for people to keep working.



ROFL - How can you avoid a company and yet keep downloading their product? What a complete idiot. "Yeah I'll avoid Adobe by downloading Photoshop". Do avoiding a company by not paying for their product but still using it is stealing? Yeah I'll avoid Interscope but I'll download their music anyway.



Uh huh and "killing" was illegal back then and it still is today. Thanks for proving why you're a French buffoon who should never do more then make French fries at a McDonalds in Belgium.

They actually dont have many McDonalds in Belgium.. They have a thing called "quick", which is a Belgian version of MCDonalds, just less silly.

Besides, Belgian favorite food is not fast food.

 

[Hatuey]

I dont have a dell.. I use Debian GNU/Linux which is also a free operating system, far better than Microsoft Windows Vista if I might add. I downloaded it for free from their official page. Ubuntu is also free, you can download it and install it on any PC.. Your enormous lack of knowledge about what you are talking about in this thread is making you look like a terrorist posing as a stupid American, in order to even lower the American image further.. :shock:
Download Ubuntu | Ubuntu

You obviously do not comprehend simple logic so I'll explain it to you in simpler. Ubuntu. Makes 0 money from their "product". Yet they have a list of other things which they make money out of : - Do you mean that goodwill and socialism isn't enough to keep funding going? I guess so. Here is the list.

https://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=16

Ubuntu Ogio Messenger Bag
New item
Ubuntu Ogio Messenger Bag
£ 54.00 Recycled Ubuntu Notepad
Recycled Ubuntu Notepad
£ 4.00
Ubuntu 1gb Flash Drive
New item
Ubuntu 1gb Flash Drive
£ 12.00 Ubuntu Ballpoint Pen
Ubuntu Ballpoint Pen
£ 0.80
Ubuntu Lanyard
Ubuntu Lanyard
£ 1.25 Ubuntu Stress Ball
Ubuntu Stress Ball
£ 2.50
Ubuntu Stickers
Ubuntu Stickers
£ 2.00 Ubuntu Drinking Mug
Ubuntu Drinking Mug
£ 3.00
Ubuntu Rucksack
Ubuntu Rucksack
£ 15.00 Ubuntu Metal Key Fob
Ubuntu Metal Key Fob
£ 2.50

Now explain to me how a company can survive by not selling a product? Oh of course they give away free Ubuntu. But free doesn't pay for much. So they sell other **** so that they can pay for their costs.

Linux distributions like Ubuntu and Debian isnt developed by a dedicated team, its developed by the public and put together by a team of experts. Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu makes money from all kind of things, but they still give away their excellent product, Ubuntu Linux.

Ummm Canonical makes money by selling Ubuntu merchandise you dumb ****. Even if Ubuntu was worth $20 they make up for it by letting idiots like yourself buy Ubuntu pens thinking you're supporting a good cause.

So you dont read my posts? Becuase I just told you I didnt believe that, its just a misunderstanding.. Now you are about to make me sink to your level and start calling you names. But not yet.. Id..

Says the guy who thinks if you can't afford something it's ok to steal it.

I do what the laws allow me, I do what my knowledge allow me, which is apparently far more than you.

The law doesn't allow you to illegally download music. Game over?

You are doing nothing but trolling her Hatuey, I do have to report you soon. I can afford many songs, but I prefer to boycot the US at the moment by not buyng US products. This boycot also includes legally pirating US products, and not using Micropoly Winlows. I prefer to use free software, linux. Only America thing I pay for is.. Haagen Daachs ice cream/ The rest I buy in European goods or find other alternatives.

Says the guy who illegally downloads American music. Yes we all know. It's ok to steal U.S. music under the excuse of boycott.

Products doesnt have anything to do with economy. A product is something that is produced.

Rofl - Why do you continue? You've already been proven wrong on this :

product - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

2 a (1): something produced; especially : commodity 1 (2): something (as a service) that is marketed or sold as a commodity

I am playing the game here? This is all irrelevant anyways.. :rofl

You're irrelevant. Just like France.

You know nothing about the real world, and you definetely have no idea what Linux and Linux distroes are all about.

Linux is made by morons who haven't caught on to making money yet.

You dont even know that social-capitalism is taking over motherfu****.

In Europe. I'm still making money from my 100% Capitalist business.

Linux.com has nothing to do with Linux..

Linux.com - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is the name of a site owned by SourceForge, Inc. (formerly VA Software) and dedicated to providing news and services to the free and open source software community.

SourceForge, Inc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Founded in 1993 as VA Research, the company started as an operation in which Stanford graduate student Larry Augustin, along with partner James Vera (both Vera and Augustin were colleagues of Jerry Yang and David Filo at Stanford,[citation needed] who would go on to found Yahoo!), built and sold personal computer systems pre-installed with the Linux operating system as an alternative to much more expensive Unix workstations available at the time. At the time they started operations, they were one of the first computer vendors to offer Linux as a pre-installed operating system.[citation needed] During the initial years of operation, the business was quite profitable and grew quickly, with over $100 million in sales and a 10% profit margin in 1998[3] and was the largest vendor of pre-installed Linux computers, having approximately 20% of the Linux hardware market.

You were saying?

They actually dont have many McDonalds in Belgium.. They have a thing called "quick", which is a Belgian version of MCDonalds, just less silly.

Besides, Belgian favorite food is not fast food.

McDONALD'S

Why am I not surprised you'd be ignorant about what a product is? Why am I not even surprised that you'd talk about Europe like you've actually ever been outside your 1 bedroom apartment?

There is a McDonalds in every single region of Belgium. Considering Belgium is smaller then Rhode Island thats pretty good.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

The law doesn't allow you to illegally download music. Game over?

There is no law in my country, and no enforced laws in Europe against downloading music. Guess I am not affected then.

Says the guy who illegally downloads American music. Yes we all know. It's ok to steal U.S. music under the excuse of boycott.

For me, yes, mainly. I boycott all American products as far as I can because of your retarded foreign politics. Thats not the only reason tho, just one of 3-4 reasons. The other one being thats its much easier than buying, the third one that it would be impossible and to expensive to build up an extensive music collection by buying it, besides, it would be rather difficult as sold music is infected with Digital Rights Management.

Linux is made by morons who haven't caught on to making money yet.

GNU/Linux is made by enormously clever people, and have enormously clever users. Because they refuse to use a lousy product with a choppy release curve and unpredicted results, whose only reason they are the market leader is because of illegal cooperation with the hardware industry, and their resulting monopoly(windows) when they can offer a constantly developing and far more advanced product for free. They are sinking the company of the devil, the company that ruined the 100$ laptop project to benefit the poor, because they insisted it needed better hardware so that it could also use the Microsoft OS that was forced onto it. All of the sudden the laptop became twice as expensive.. Good thing for the poor people of Africa..

In Europe. I'm still making money from my 100% Capitalist business.

Good for you, its the worlds largest market, so you better make money.:spin:

McDONALD'S

Why am I not surprised you'd be ignorant about what a product is? Why am I not even surprised that you'd talk about Europe like you've actually ever been outside your 1 bedroom apartment?

There is a McDonalds in every single region of Belgium. Considering Belgium is smaller then Rhode Island thats pretty good.

Of any western country, Belgium is the one with the fewest MCDonalds per capita :2razz:

 

[Hatuey]

There is no law in my country, and no enforced laws in Europe against downloading music. Guess I am not affected then.

LOL - What a moron.

Copyright - IGDAwiki

Copyright is protected throughout Europe via a complex web of international conventions, treaties, agreements and European Community (EC) Directives. From a geographical perspective, this discussion is limited to the protection of copyright in countries that are Member States of the European Union (EU). The EU currently comprises 15 Member States (including the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Finland and Sweden). Although Switzerland is not part of the EU (maintaining its neutrality), it has enacted national copyright law compatible with various EC copyright Directives. The EU is also preparing for the accession of 10 eastern and southern European countries (including Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic) in May 2004.

For me, yes, mainly. I boycott all American products as far as I can because of your retarded foreign politics.

Uh huh. Get back to me when France doesn't depend on America just as much as the rest of Europe does. Everything you do and use has American innovation in it. From the car you drive to the computer you use. Good luck avoiding America.

Thats not the only reason tho, just one of 3-4 reasons. The other one being thats its much easier than buying, the third one that it would be impossible and to expensive to build up an extensive music collection by buying it, besides, it would be rather difficult as sold music is infected with Digital Rights Management

Uh huh get back to me when not being able to afford something justifies stealing it.

GNU/Linux is made by enormously clever people, and have enormously clever users. Because they refuse to use a lousy product with a choppy release curve and unpredicted results, whose only reason they are the market leader is because of illegal cooperation with the hardware industry, and their resulting monopoly(windows) when they can offer a constantly developing and far more advanced product for free. They are sinking the company of the devil, the company that ruined the 100$ laptop project to benefit the poor, because they insisted it needed better hardware so that it could also use the Microsoft OS that was forced onto it. All of the sudden the laptop became twice as expensive.. Good thing for the poor people of Africa..

Cry me a river. When any of this justifies pirating you're welcome to come back.

Good for you, its the worlds largest market, so you better make money.:spin:

As opposed to you poor monkeys who steal.

Of any western country, Belgium is the one with the fewest MCDonalds per capita :2razz:

Ummm alright. You should really not make up stuff.

NationMaster - McDonalds restaurants (per capita) (most recent) by country

#25 Belgium: 0.062 per 10,000 population
#26 Czech Republic: 0.059 per 10,000 population
#27 Malaysia: 0.058 per 10,000 population
#28 Italy: 0.05 per 10,000 population
#29 Korea, South: 0.05 per 10,000 population
#30 Poland: 0.047 per 10,000 population
#31 Greece: 0.045 per 10,000 population

Still waiting for you to provide a single civilization where stealing has been justified. You can't? Oh alright.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

"Cd's are the product but the audio files are not - I'm allowed to take them."

"The canvas is the product, but the painting on it is only the concept - I'm allowed to take it."

1. Audio files are pieces of data on the CD; they are material (as in they exist objectively in the real world). Music does not. The existence of music on the CD is determined by whether or not an individual considers the audio contained on the CD to be music.

2. Paint isn't a "concept". Art, on the other hand, is, and the same reasoning as my previous point applies here as well.

This is all quite elementary, really. I don't see how someone could deny it.

 

[Travelsonic]

LOL - What a moron.

Copyright - IGDAwiki

That doesn't make downloading music in of itself illegal.

It makes redistribution of copyrighted works without permission of the copyright holder (<-sticking point) illegal, which is not the same in of itself as the term is continually termed.