EU and Iran to hold nuclear talks

[Maximus Zeebra]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | EU and Iran to hold nuclear talks

Again an attempt is made. To me it seems fairly easy, they should offer ONE thing. Complete and transparent nuclear inspections in Iran will allow Iran to use nuclear power but not weapons, if Iran says no, this is the last diplomacy in the case. Its that simple, anything else is unacceptable especially considering the statements of the Iranian president about wiping Israel of the map.

There should be an ultimatum and Iran should be more than happy to accept inspection for the right to use nuclear as power production.
In all realism, Iran ruined it for themelf when their president said idiotic things about Israel, which should have been taken as an act of war.

If a neighbor told me he was going to shoot me, if he was threatening me several times about this for no reason i would certainly ask him why and tell him I would call the police or kill him myself in defense if he threatens again.

 

[BudLizard101]

If a neighbor told me he was going to shoot me, if he was threatening me several times about this for no reason i would certainly ask him why and tell him I would call the police or kill him myself in defense if he threatens again.

yes, but if Israel defends itself it'll be condemned and the police(UN) obviously isn't doing a damn thing about Iran trying to wipe out Israel.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

yes, but if Israel defends itself it'll be condemned and the police(UN) obviously isn't doing a damn thing about Iran trying to wipe out Israel.

What if Israel just do the right thing?

1. Join the EU Iran negotiations.
2. Help form the ultimatum for Iran.
3. If Iran says no, Isreal is the only country who have been threatened, thus they have the right to initiate war against Iran.
4. Not allow anyone else to get involved unless Israel is threatened by invasion by Iran.
5. Bomb Iranian nuclear facilities and military infrastructure when the UN or the EU with the support of the US(which will be easy) allows it.(because the EU was the negotiatior they should be responsible for the ultimatum and be the main backer of Israel attacking Iran from the air). Any US involvement(except symbolic backing) in such a tactic would ruin the credibility of it and further degrade US credibility.

 

[RightOfCenter]

What if Israel just do the right thing?

1. Join the EU Iran negotiations.

I think this will only hinder any ability to negotiate with Iran at all. The countries are stated rivals.

2. Help form the ultimatum for Iran.

If Israel is involved it will serve to only further antagonize Iran.

3. If Iran says no, Isreal is the only country who have been threatened, thus they have the right to initiate war against Iran.

And Israels allies will also step in.

4. Not allow anyone else to get involved unless Israel is threatened by invasion by Iran.

The rest of the world is already involved. If a state in support of terrorism acquires nuclear weapons then the entire world is in danger.

5. Bomb Iranian nuclear facilities and military infrastructure when the UN or the EU with the support of the US(which will be easy) allows it.(because the EU was the negotiatior they should be responsible for the ultimatum and be the main backer of Israel attacking Iran from the air). Any US involvement(except symbolic backing) in such a tactic would ruin the credibility of it and further degrade US credibility.

So, the US isn't negotiating with Iran? Isn't there already a thread about this, a quote from Gates, something along the lines of "Diplomacy is working with Iran?" Also if the EU and UN are supportive of an attack against Iran (which I don't see happening) then US credibility won't be touched, hell, it will be helped by the fact that we're actually cooperating with the rest of the world!

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I think this will only hinder any ability to negotiate with Iran at all. The countries are stated rivals.


If Israel is involved it will serve to only further antagonize Iran.


And Israels allies will also step in.


The rest of the world is already involved. If a state in support of terrorism acquires nuclear weapons then the entire world is in danger.



So, the US isn't negotiating with Iran? Isn't there already a thread about this, a quote from Gates, something along the lines of "Diplomacy is working with Iran?" Also if the EU and UN are supportive of an attack against Iran (which I don't see happening) then US credibility won't be touched, hell, it will be helped by the fact that we're actually cooperating with the rest of the world!

Yeah, sure, the US havent negotiated with Iran at all.. Gates is just a puppet, controlled by Dick Puppeteer.

 

[Mr. X]

Okay, seriously drop the puppeteer talk. That's just silly regardless of how you feel about the American government.

Now to the meat. Hasn't the UN already introduced sanctions? This isn't a new development and Iran's continued obstinance can only be seen as more than a bit alarming. Out of curiosity, at what point would you say enough is enough?

Iran is a country swimming on a sea of oil. They don't need nuclear energy in the first place unless you think that Ahmadinejad has watched "An Inconvenient Truth" and suddenly gone green. Are you arguing that nuclear power is something Iran needs? Perhaps we should offer them turbines and solar panels instead.

You clearly read a lot of news sources. I don't agree with your interpretation of the majority of them, but you are certainly not someone lacking access to information. Having all of that information, are you not a bit squeamish about the government in Iran? Do you think that there is more than a remote possibility that the thousands of centrifuges Iran is using that the IEAE, UN and nearly every other government says is overkill for purifying uranium for peaceful purposes, could be part of a larger, more dastardly plot?

I've asked a lot of questions here, and I won't even ask you to answer them all. Just answer this: Why do you think Ahmadinejad is risking everything over this, what he alleges to be completely peaceful, activity?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | EU and Iran to hold nuclear talks

Again an attempt is made. To me it seems fairly easy, they should offer ONE thing. Complete and transparent nuclear inspections in Iran will allow Iran to use nuclear power but not weapons, if Iran says no, this is the last diplomacy in the case. Its that simple, anything else is unacceptable especially considering the statements of the Iranian president about wiping Israel of the map.

There should be an ultimatum and Iran should be more than happy to accept inspection for the right to use nuclear as power production.
In all realism, Iran ruined it for themelf when their president said idiotic things about Israel, which should have been taken as an act of war.

If a neighbor told me he was going to shoot me, if he was threatening me several times about this for no reason i would certainly ask him why and tell him I would call the police or kill him myself in defense if he threatens again.

The Iranians have already rejected the ultimatum before the meeting ever took place:

Iran rules out enrichment suspension ahead of EU talks
04.22.07, 12:24 PM ET

TEHRAN (Thomson Financial) - Iran rejects any suspension of its sensitive uranium enrichment activities, the foreign ministry spokesman said, ahead of key talks next week with EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...fx3638613.html

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Okay, seriously drop the puppeteer talk. That's just silly regardless of how you feel about the American government.

Now to the meat. Hasn't the UN already introduced sanctions? This isn't a new development and Iran's continued obstinance can only be seen as more than a bit alarming. Out of curiosity, at what point would you say enough is enough?

Iran is a country swimming on a sea of oil. They don't need nuclear energy in the first place unless you think that Ahmadinejad has watched "An Inconvenient Truth" and suddenly gone green. Are you arguing that nuclear power is something Iran needs? Perhaps we should offer them turbines and solar panels instead.

You clearly read a lot of news sources. I don't agree with your interpretation of the majority of them, but you are certainly not someone lacking access to information. Having all of that information, are you not a bit squeamish about the government in Iran? Do you think that there is more than a remote possibility that the thousands of centrifuges Iran is using that the IEAE, UN and nearly every other government says is overkill for purifying uranium for peaceful purposes, could be part of a larger, more dastardly plot?

I've asked a lot of questions here, and I won't even ask you to answer them all. Just answer this: Why do you think Ahmadinejad is risking everything over this, what he alleges to be completely peaceful, activity?

I didnt have anything else to say, but I wanted this thread back in focus. :roll:

Personally I think the combination of what their president said about Israel and the fact they reject nuclear inspections is enough reason to set up some ultimatum.

I am sure Iran COULD develop solar energy themself, but its rather obvious to me that they want to provoke rather than cooperate.

I say, lets be honest with ourself, lets do one more round of negotiation, lets give them an ultimatum after having a long discussion with them. What the ultimatum is is not THE most important thing, it could be one of many possible.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

The Iranians have already rejected the ultimatum before the meeting ever took place:

No no.. you dont understand. the ultimatum don thave to be to stop enrichment to have talk. in my opinion there are 10+ possible ultimatums to give Iran. That one you are talking about is perhaps the worst in my opinion. Iran WANTS to talk, but they dont want to stop enrichment to talk. So lets be honest and talk to them and if they dont cooperate, then lets smack them with some kind of ultimatum.

The LEAST we should expect is Iran to allow full and open inspections, as long as they dont allow that they are in violation of the NPT which they are talking about as to allowing them the right to nuclear power. yes, they have the right to nuclear power if they absolutely must and cannot go for anything else, but HELL then they should accept full inspections in return as according to the same treaty.

 

[python416]

Iran is a country swimming on a sea of oil. They don't need nuclear energy in the first place unless you think that Ahmadinejad has watched "An Inconvenient Truth" and suddenly gone green. Are you arguing that nuclear power is something Iran needs? Perhaps we should offer them turbines and solar panels instead.

Iran was "swimming on a sea of oil" when the US seeded the nuclear programme under the US installed dictator in the 1950s. Why did they need it then?

Nuclear technology is a scientific advancement that the overwhelming majority of Iranians want to their government to pursue.

There are much better ways to generate electricity than digging up and burning hydro-carbons. Nuclear is one of them. If they generate from nuclear, then they can save their oil for export. From an energy policy point of view, it is a good idea.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

No no.. you dont understand. the ultimatum don thave to be to stop enrichment to have talk. in my opinion there are 10+ possible ultimatums to give Iran. That one you are talking about is perhaps the worst in my opinion. Iran WANTS to talk, but they dont want to stop enrichment to talk. So lets be honest and talk to them and if they dont cooperate, then lets smack them with some kind of ultimatum.

The LEAST we should expect is Iran to allow full and open inspections, as long as they dont allow that they are in violation of the NPT which they are talking about as to allowing them the right to nuclear power. yes, they have the right to nuclear power if they absolutely must and cannot go for anything else, but HELL then they should accept full inspections in return as according to the same treaty.

They are the number 1 state sponsor of terrorism, they have taken British troops hostage, they threaten to wipe Israel off the map, they are flauting U.N. resoltutions, they are supporting and arming the insurgency in Iraq, they support Hezbollah and Hamas in Lebanon and Israel, they are responsible for grave human rights abuses including killing gays and women who have had sex outside of marriage, the list goes on and on and on, and while they are signatories to the non-proliferation act they did so under the Shah who was pro-western and did not threaten his neighbors, the intentions of the current regime are diametrically opposed to those of the Shah, they have proven themselves beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are not to be trusted with a nuclear capablility and the potential to produce the most destructive weapon in the history of civilization.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

They are the number 1 state sponsor of terrorism, they have taken British troops hostage, they threaten to wipe Israel off the map, they are flauting U.N. resoltutions, they are supporting and arming the insurgency in Iraq, they support Hezbollah and Hamas in Lebanon and Israel, they are responsible for grave human rights abuses including killing gays and women who have had sex outside of marriage, the list goes on and on and on, and while they are signatories to the non-proliferation act they did so under the Shah who was pro-western and did not threaten his neighbors, the intentions of the current regime are diametrically opposed to those of the Shah, they have proven themselves beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are not to be trusted with a nuclear capablility and the potential to produce the most destructive weapon in the history of civilization.

I dont care about terrorism, I only care about the facts.. It is a fact that he said that about Israel. If he hadnt said that I would still be supporting inspections against nuclear technology(power) in Iran.

Well, one of the most underrated crimes in the west is adultery, which is one of the crimes of the commandmends not mentioned in the western laws. I think there should be severe penalties for adultery(1 month for first offenders, 3 months for second offenders, 1 years for any offense beyond that), but less restrictive divorce laws.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I dont care about terrorism,

State sponsors of terrorism should not be allowed nuclear power that has the potential of becoming the most deadly weapon mankind has ever known, that would be a suicidal prospect on our part.

I only care about the facts.. It is a fact that he said that about Israel. If he hadnt said that I would still be supporting inspections against nuclear technology(power) in Iran.

No comprehende.

Well, one of the most underrated crimes in the west is adultery, which is one of the crimes of the commandmends not mentioned in the western laws. I think there should be severe penalties for adultery(1 month for first offenders, 3 months for second offenders, 1 years for any offense beyond that), but less restrictive divorce laws.

I'm not really sure what your point is, but in Iran they define adultery as sex outside of marriage and rape without 4 witnesses, the penalty is death.

 

[PeteEU]

State sponsors of terrorism should not be allowed nuclear power that has the potential of becoming the most deadly weapon mankind has ever known, that would be a suicidal prospect on our part.

Well if you belive that, then the US has no right to nukes as they too are a state sponsor of terrorism. Yes they are, as they have not handed over and even protected a wanted terrorist. Only difference is that the person in question was a former CIA agent and the countries wanting him for terror, are on the "enemy" list of the US. But he is still a wanted terrorist and hence the US supports terrorists.

 

[Red_Dave]

BBC NEWS | Middle East | EU and Iran to hold nuclear talks

Again an attempt is made. To me it seems fairly easy, they should offer ONE thing. Complete and transparent nuclear inspections in Iran will allow Iran to use nuclear power but not weapons, if Iran says no, this is the last diplomacy in the case. Its that simple, anything else is unacceptable especially considering the statements of the Iranian president about wiping Israel of the map.

There should be an ultimatum and Iran should be more than happy to accept inspection for the right to use nuclear as power production.
In all realism, Iran ruined it for themelf when their president said idiotic things about Israel, which should have been taken as an act of war.

If a neighbor told me he was going to shoot me, if he was threatening me several times about this for no reason i would certainly ask him why and tell him I would call the police or kill him myself in defense if he threatens again.

Your forgetting that the specific type of depleted uranium Iran is useing cannot be used for nuclear power.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well if you belive that, then the US has no right to nukes as they too are a state sponsor of terrorism. Yes they are, as they have not handed over and even protected a wanted terrorist.

According to Castro. Why would we extradite someone who we know has no chance of recieving a fair trial?

Only difference is that the person in question was a former CIA agent and the countries wanting him for terror, are on the "enemy" list of the US. But he is still a wanted terrorist and hence the US supports terrorists.

See you're taking Castro's story at face value.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Your forgetting that the specific type of depleted uranium Iran is useing cannot be used for nuclear power.

Wrong, Iran is producing enriched uranium hence their refusal to suspend enrichment and their announcement that they will build 50,000 additional centrifuges to produce said enriched uranium:

Iran rules out enrichment suspension ahead of EU talks
04.22.07, 12:24 PM ET

TEHRAN (Thomson Financial) - Iran rejects any suspension of its sensitive uranium enrichment activities, the foreign ministry spokesman said, ahead of key talks next week with EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana.

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...fx3638613.html

Iran Aims for 50,000 Centrifuges at Nuclear Plant (Update3)

By Ladane Nasseri and Marc Wolfensberger

April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Iran said it is aiming to install 50,000 centrifuges to enrich uranium as part of its nuclear program, a day after defying the United Nations with an announcement that the work has reached an industrial scale.

Iran's aim is not only ``to install 3,000 centrifuges at its Natanz nuclear facility but is has planned for 50,000 centrifuges,'' the head of the country's Atomic Energy Organization, Gholam Reza Aghazadeh, was quoted as saying by the official Islamic Republic News Agency.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said yesterday that Iran has begun enriching uranium on an industrial scale.

About 1,500 centrifuges spinning non-stop for a year would be needed to produce the 28 kilograms (62 pounds) of 90 percent- enriched uranium needed for a bomb, nuclear physicist David Albright of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington said in June.

Ahmadinejad's announcement yesterday didn't include details of how much uranium Iran has enriched.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Iran does not intend to use lightwater reactors.