• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ethnicity of arrested people to be disclosed in some circumstances

P

panic buyer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2024
Messages
769
Reaction score
745
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Im sreuggling to understand the need for this other than to appease the ectreme right wing. They should call it Elons Law.
Farage and his crew must be wanking themselves senseless.
To clarify these are people in custody not people that the police are looking for.
They would be better off regulating the tech giants than surrendering to them.

Police ordered to reveal ethnicity of suspected criminals

In a move to enhance transparency, police forces are now required to disclose more about suspects' backgrounds.
www.express.co.uk
 

Nature abhors a vacuum and the internet is even worse. We saw what happened previously, bad actors stepped in to make shit up and cause trouble.

It would be good to do something about the tech giants but you know as well as I do that ain't happening. We couldn't join Europe to do this and none of our politicians would have the guts to threaten to block them in the UK unless they behaved.

I also think at the heart of it - we may not tax these giants much but they employ people and pay some taxes so most Governments won't want to upset that little golden goose.

It stinks but that's the world we are in.
 

I'm a bit confused on what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you're afraid statistics will validate right wing narratives about minorities from the global south committing disproportionate levels of crime?

This reminds me of a great Norm bit:

 
Gozaburo said:
I'm a bit confused on what you're trying to say. Are you saying that you're afraid statistics will validate right wing narratives about minorities from the global south committing disproportionate levels of crime?
Click to expand...

It will probably just show what such statistics show in the United States: police arrest minorities at a disproportionate level, not that minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crime.
 
Bok Tuklo said:
It will probably just show what such statistics show in the United States: police arrest minorities at a disproportionate level, not that minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crime.
Click to expand...

This seems difficult to prove given that we have crimes like homicide and rape with forensic evidence.

In fact - using that argument - we could even say that potentially homicides and rapes are under reported in minority communities because either 1. American cops don't care and 2. Minorities don't trust American police
 

Also, Black people are 4 times more likely to be arrested for crimes involving marijuana than white people even though the demographics have about the same likelihood of using the drug.

I have come to believe such arrest statistics are more an indictment of policing than of the minority population. I mean, ICE isn't tackling Chad in the parking lot of a Home Depot.
 
Bok Tuklo said:
Also, Black people are 4 times more likely to be arrested for crimes involving marijuana than white people even though the demographics have about the same likelihood of using the drug.
Click to expand...

I mean I could think of a multitude of non-sinister reasons why this might be the case, but discrimination no-doubt plays a role.

Bok Tuklo said:
I have come to believe such arrest statistics are more an indictment of policing than of the minority population. I mean, ICE isn't tackling Chad in the parking lot of a Home Depot.
Click to expand...

We might never have a concrete answer since the most liberal nations don't allow for the collection of demographic data! If you ask me: scarce resources and human nature means the issue will never be resolved.
 
This thread is about the UK; arrest rates in the USA are irrelevant.
 
Yes they do lol…. Why lie?
 
bomberfox said:
Yes they do lol…. Why lie?
Click to expand...

They don't. None of the Nordic countries permit it as far as I know. Canada doesn't. Germany and France don't (although France has independent research).

The only countries that really do are some of the liberal nations in the anglosphere.

Edit: I just realized you might be confused by "demographic data". Obviously they collect demographic data, but they don't collect demographic crime data. I didn't think this distinction was needed given the subject of the thread.
 
Canada collects demographic crime data.

  • In 2020/2021, despite representing about 4% of adults in Canada, Black people accounted for 9% of the total offender population in federal corrections. (Justice Canada, 2022)
  • Black people have overall lower rates of reoffending and lower returns to custody. The majority of Black offenders (85.8%) are not re-admitted to federal custody within 5 years following the expiration of their sentence. (Correctional Service Canada, 2022)

So yeah they do collect such crime data.
 
No.. because the right wing narrative is not that they are "disproportionately" committing more crime.. it is always they are either committing the most or all crime. That is the problem... not true at all.

I have no problem listing statistics based on nationality, but not race or religion, as that is certainly irrelevant. However even with nationality only, the manipulation and lies by the right wing will continue.. It does in my own country.

Case in point. We constantly hear that everything from a majority to a large portion of our prison population is immigrants. Now the actual facts are the following (2023 numbers).. 10826 in Danish prisons or local slammers. Of those 8678 come from Europe, and of those 7712 are Danes. So that means 2148 are non Europeans. Now statistically, that is around 20% that is "non white Muslim", which is a higher procent (relatively) than the "non white Muslim" population in Denmark.

Now the funny thing about Danish statistics, is that they are quite comprehensive and the right are highly selective .. odd no?

And yes, the "left" should hit back with actual facts, but they dont.. because they are idiots.
 
The Nordic countries do collect demographic data. They DONT collect religious or "ethnicity" statistics. HUGE difference.
 
bomberfox said:
So yeah they do collect such crime data.
Click to expand...

It seems Canada does, which is news to me.

Norway and Finland do not, although you may be able to find independent research conducted within those nations.
 
PeteEU said:
I have no problem listing statistics based on nationality, but not race or religion, as that is certainly irrelevant. However even with nationality only, the manipulation and lies by the right wing will continue.. It does in my own country.
Click to expand...

Why would a right wing racialist grant you this position? I have a hunch that people who criticize immigrants and nationalities believe in human biodiversity but are too scared to say it, so they attack these proxies.

PeteEU said:
The Nordic countries do collect demographic data. They DONT collect religious or "ethnicity" statistics. HUGE difference.
Click to expand...

As I conceded in the post you're literally quoting.
 
Gozaburo said:
It seems Canada does, which is news to me.

Norway and Finland do not, although you may be able to find independent research conducted within those nations.
Click to expand...
How do they get the data?……. Lol…
 
If the left is going to constantly push race and ethnicity, claiming transparency is needed, why reject the idea now?

Is it because all cases will be exposed instead of what the left cherry picks?
 
bomberfox said:
How do they get the data?……. Lol…
Click to expand...

The same way you would get any data. Random sampling, self reporting, etc.

The point is that unlike the United States (and apparently Canada), the government doesn't collect these statistics and annually evaluate them.
 
Gozaburo said:
Why would a right wing racialist grant you this position? I have a hunch that people who criticize immigrants and nationalities believe in human biodiversity but are too scared to say it, so they attack these proxies.
Click to expand...
Because these very same right wingers often dont have problems with Vietnamese or Thai.... also immigrants, and also sitting in Danish prisons. But the right wing has to have an enemy.. in the 1920s-40s it was the Jews, in the late 1800s in the US it was the Irish (and blacks of course) and now days it is Muslims.

Gozaburo said:
As I conceded in the post you're literally quoting.
Click to expand...
Not good enough!.. you MUST conceded AGAIN!.. yea like doooooo it... "says in Dr Evil" voice..

Has nothing to do with me not reading well today.. naw nothing at all! Damn immigrants here with their big titti.. oh that is tourists going to the beach.. nevermind!
 
These stats tell us nothing of value. Apart from anything the arrested folk havent eben faced trial.
I was arrested once but then releasee without charge. Should my stats be counted ?
 
panic buyer said:
These stats tell us nothing of value. Apart from anything the arrested folk havent eben faced trial.
I was arrested once but then releasee without charge. Should my stats be counted ?
Click to expand...

Typically when people talk about crime statistics, they're referring to obscene crimes like murder, rape, maybe even theft. Lesser crimes - like getting caught smoking a blunt in a Walmart parking lot - are usually only considered when it reaffirms that a particular demographic is already problematic in a more important statistic like murder, which is a bit more objective due to forensics.
 
So you agree these stats tell us nothing.
 
panic buyer said:
So you agree these stats tell us nothing.
Click to expand...

Well they certainly tell us something.

If a particular demographic is many times more murderous than another, even when you control for socioeconomic status, that might tell us something. If we further control for geography and generational wealth, it might tell us even more! etc. etc.
 
But we lnow black people are more likely to be arrested for anything.It doesnt tell us anything.
 
panic buyer said:
But we lnow black people are more likely to be arrested for anything.It doesnt tell us anything.
Click to expand...
Their arrest rate is similar to their crime rate. I think what scares the left if such a thing were to become reality, is they could no longer push lying narratives regarding race.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…