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Ethanol, Solar, What Other Mistakes? (1 Viewer)

"This industry is expanding too fast for the subsidies to keep up" is not an argument suggesting solar panels are a mistake.
 
CalGun said:
States argue for cutting off solar subsidies | Fox News

Our tax dollars hard at work
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Interesting how people always want to conclude that the alternative sources are the mistake in any way possible.

Does anyone realize how fossil fuels became the standard, to what cost of the taxpayers, and for what reason, as well as the benefits and results? No one seems to question this - it's as if the dominating sources are seen as a standard component with little heed given to the many issues that come with it.
 
I agree. Take the training wheels off, and let these stand on their own merit.
 
Deuce said:
"This industry is expanding too fast for the subsidies to keep up" is not an argument suggesting solar panels are a mistake.
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'


How many solar cells ya got?

And, seems to me the problem with Solar is storing the energy, batteries cost a lot and don't seem to last very long. Are they environmentally friendly? What about the amount of silver needed to make the solar cells, is there a sufficient supply to assure all in China have solar, or is it just for us?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
'


How many solar cells ya got?

And, seems to me the problem with Solar is storing the energy, batteries cost a lot and don't seem to last very long. Are they environmentally friendly? What about the amount of silver needed to make the solar cells, is there a sufficient supply to assure all in China have solar, or is it just for us?
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The rapidly plummeting price of solar cells would be an indicator that the materials are not currently in short supply.

My electricity comes from a nuclear plant.
 
Deuce said:
The rapidly plummeting price of solar cells would be an indicator that the materials are not currently in short supply.

My electricity comes from a nuclear plant.
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Not necessarily. Could mean lots of things, one of which might be that if nobody is buying at the price you are selling, best lower the price to sell as many as you can before nobody is buying at all...then it could be that you see another competitor, or a more efficient form of energy is coming in the future and you revert back to the previous answer. But you could be right. Are they selling tons of them are they?

And why not answer the questions about the batteries and long term availability...
 
It had been a while sine I had looked at Solar prices, WOW has the price dropped.
SolarEdge Solar Power System - 24 Astronergy Solar Panels
So this system costs just under $10K and produces 814 kwh per month.
Assuming a electric price of 12c per kwh that would save about $100 per month, and
be in payback mode in 100 months (likely 10 years when you count the installation).
Still not too bad.
No wonder Solyndra went out of business, they based their profits on a cost of goods
sold of $600 for a 200 watt panel, The bulk pricing in now a 250 watt panel for $212.
So the Solyndra panels would cost 3 X the current price to just make.
 
longview said:
It had been a while sine I had looked at Solar prices, WOW has the price dropped.
SolarEdge Solar Power System - 24 Astronergy Solar Panels
So this system costs just under $10K and produces 814 kwh per month.
Assuming a electric price of 12c per kwh that would save about $100 per month, and
be in payback mode in 100 months (likely 10 years when you count the installation).
Still not too bad.
No wonder Solyndra went out of business, they based their profits on a cost of goods
sold of $600 for a 200 watt panel, The bulk pricing in now a 250 watt panel for $212.
So the Solyndra panels would cost 3 X the current price to just make.
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Under what conditions does it produce that level of energy?

How would it fare where I live, north of the 45th parallel?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Under what conditions does it produce that level of energy?

How would it fare where I live, north of the 45th parallel?
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Their ad said based on 5 hours of sun per day,
but the kit has 25 panels at 250 watts each.
So if you know the average good sun hours per month, you should be able
to get a rough order of magnitude number, for your area.
 
longview said:
Their ad said based on 5 hours of sun per day,
but the kit has 25 panels at 250 watts each.
So if you know the average good sun hours per month, you should be able
to get a rough order of magnitude number, for your area.
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LOL...

Grey skies much of the winter, when i need electricity. Still, the summer AC would be a benifit. It just doesn't pan out cost wise for many areas.

I see solar the best choice for hot regions, for cooling in the daytime when the power infrastructure is stressed already. maybe some day it will be more cost effective for those of us in light latitudes.
 
clownboy said:
Try hydro, it kicks solar's ass. :mrgreen:
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And it wouldn't be as expensive here is we didn't sell so much to California.

Worse yet, they get green credits for it!
 
Lord of Planar said:
And it wouldn't be as expensive here is we didn't sell so much to California.

Worse yet, they get green credits for it!
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I have heard the Pacific Northwest has really low electric rates,
Here in Texas, Mine is running about .12 per Kwh, and taxed to death beyond that.
The benefit here would be the double dipping of the power and then the shade from the panels.
 
longview said:
I have heard the Pacific Northwest has really low electric rates,
Here in Texas, Mine is running about .12 per Kwh, and taxed to death beyond that.
The benefit here would be the double dipping of the power and then the shade from the panels.
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With tax, mine is about $0.10. It's still more than we used to pay vs. cost of living since they upgraded the Pacific DC intertie.
 
If curious, my rate is $0.06778 for the first 1,000 kwh. $0.075 per kwh after that. Transmission charges are $0.00235 per and Distribution charges $0.03116 per. After credits and adjustments, it's $0.09312 for the first 1,000 kwh and $0.10965 after that. Portland taxes are 1.5%, County tax a minus 0.15% (strange), and a public purpose charge of 3%. There is a base $9 per month charge. A recent biggest winter bill this last winter was $112.62 for 1,047 kwh. I have electric heat and an electric water heater. No natural gas.

Solar has to get pretty cheap to be worth investing in here.
 
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Gaugingcatenate said:
Not necessarily. Could mean lots of things, one of which might be that if nobody is buying at the price you are selling, best lower the price to sell as many as you can before nobody is buying at all...then it could be that you see another competitor, or a more efficient form of energy is coming in the future and you revert back to the previous answer. But you could be right. Are they selling tons of them are they?

And why not answer the questions about the batteries and long term availability...
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Well when you'd like to post some evidence for any of your theories, let me know.
 
I don't really see how states lose money by giving tax breaks on solar panels. If you don't buy them at all they don't get the tax money that they don't get anyway if they are given a tax break. Are they saying they are losing money by not getting taxes on solar panels that you likely won't buy without the tax breaks? Seems like some wacky math to me.
 
Deuce said:
Well when you'd like to post some evidence for any of your theories, let me know.
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I ll let you look up what you want on silver, its uses, increased demand for same, you probably do not invest anyhow. Think its also safe to say solar panel prices are coming from oversupply and innovation, sales have adjusted a bit, tapering into decline with the end of subsidies, lots of companies out or going out of the business, declaring bankruptcy...

Batteries, expensive as stated previously. When will solar batteries become economical? | SOLARENERGYSTORAGE There is, of course, hope for the future. Solar Batteries, Which Can Store Power Unlike Panels, Could Dramatically Alter Home Energy Use

Solar Suppliers Head for First Demand Drop as Subsidy Cut - Bloomberg

Report: 180 Solar Panel Makers Will Disappear By 2015 - Forbes

Solar power: A painful eclipse | The Economist

The Year In Solar Power: Prices Crash, Sales Soar, Industry Restructures, Saudis Leap In, CSP Suffers | ThinkProgress

have at it, have fun.
 
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