• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Eric Holders speech to the NAACP --

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
"Trayvon's death caused me to have a conversation with my own son..."

I think his speech was admirable. He said his father had a conversation with him on how to act if he was stopped by the police...he never thought he'd have to have that conversation with his own son. I can appreciate that.

It also crosses my mind, however, that every father may need to have that conversation with their son. *shrug*

He also mentioned that, in his life, he'd been stopped twice by the cops -- once as a teenager and once as a Federal prosecutor! Both times his car was searched.

Tommy Boy's car was searched by cops last year, too. He's not black.)

He's against SYG grounds outside the home.

*shrug* Let a jury decide. Oh, wait! They did! Oh, wait! And, of course, Zimmerman's trial had absolutely NOTHING to do with SYG laws.

All in all, he's suggesting real, honest and difficult dialogue on how to counter the stereotypes that exist in our country re race.

I can certainly support that.

Very little (seconds) time was spent about the DOJ investigation. I hope that's a good sign.

(Fox didn't broadcast the whole speech . . . but I'm thinking it captured the most important points.)

Anyone hear anything more?
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Also heard a black attorney after the speech say that if Florida didn't have a SYG law, Zimmerman would have had to retreat. What an ignoramus. Keep idiots like this off the air. Cross her off your list!!
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
On the Monday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black women's sorority and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

On the Tuesday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black audience at the NCAAP convention and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

Nothing like the leader of the Department of Justice, the highest legal office in the land, using his pulpit to foment racial discord on behalf of this administration.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Also heard a black attorney after the speech say that if Florida didn't have a SYG law, Zimmerman would have had to retreat. What an ignoramus. Keep idiots like this off the air. Cross her off your list!!

I live in a no retreat state and to be honest, my reading of the stand your ground law Florida has is more broad than I would want it to be. Juries here tend not to be too fixated on the no retreat part though and it becomes more of a subjective totality of the circumstances test in practice. I read Florida's law as being I could be walking down the street from a park carrying a baseball bat and someone could blow me away and get off, and even more likely so if I were black.
 

polgara

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
20,215
Reaction score
17,786
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
On the Monday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black women's sorority and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

On the Tuesday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black audience at the NCAAP convention and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

Nothing like the leader of the Department of Justice, the highest legal office in the land, using his pulpit to foment racial discord on behalf of this administration.

Good afternoon, CJ! :2wave:

This is outrageous! Zimmerman was judged by a jury of his peers, in accordance with the law, and they found him not guilty! Holder may have his own opinion, but to make a mockery of the process because he doesn't agree is certainly making him look petty and childish! And he represents this country as the Attorney General? :thumbdown:
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Good afternoon, CJ! :2wave:

This is outrageous! Zimmerman was judged by a jury of his peers, in accordance with the law, and they found him not guilty! Holder may have his own opinion, but to make a mockery of the process because he doesn't agree is certainly making him look petty and childish! And he represents this country as the Attorney General? :thumbdown:

Good evening Lady P - are you back home now, enjoying the humidity?
 

AlabamaPaul

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
8,834
Reaction score
2,812
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I live in a no retreat state and to be honest, my reading of the stand your ground law Florida has is more broad than I would want it to be. Juries here tend not to be too fixated on the no retreat part though and it becomes more of a subjective totality of the circumstances test in practice. I read Florida's law as being I could be walking down the street from a park carrying a baseball bat and someone could blow me away and get off, and even more likely so if I were black.

Florida SYG laws were not used in this case...
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
61,877
Reaction score
34,056
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
On the Monday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black women's sorority and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

On the Tuesday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black audience at the NCAAP convention and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

Nothing like the leader of the Department of Justice, the highest legal office in the land, using his pulpit to foment racial discord on behalf of this administration.

It's not as if Holder hasn't cherry-picked before.
 

Verax

Disappointed in Trump
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
12,240
Reaction score
4,519
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
On the Monday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black women's sorority and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

On the Tuesday after the verdict, Holder speaks to an all black audience at the NCAAP convention and gives the impression that he disagrees with the verdict and the laws of the state of Florida.

Nothing like the leader of the Department of Justice, the highest legal office in the land, using his pulpit to foment racial discord on behalf of this administration.

So because he disagrees with the laws that means he is "fomenting racial discord"? Is he not allowed an opinion?
 

polgara

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
20,215
Reaction score
17,786
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Good evening Lady P - are you back home now, enjoying the humidity?

CJ, I can't seem to escape the heat and humidity...had it big-time in Texas, and came home today for more of the same! :eek:
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
So because he disagrees with the laws that means he is "fomenting racial discord"? Is he not allowed an opinion?

He can hold a press conference, in the DOJ offices, if he chooses. To go specifically to two 100% black institutions within days of a controversial verdict and speak against both Florida law and the outcome of the trial is, in my view, very bad judgement on behalf of the top law official in the country, the whole country by the way, not just the 15% or so who happen to be African American.

Holder's speeches the past two days are as biased and inappropriate in this matter as President Obama's comment that if he'd had a son, he would look like Trayvon.

If you don't see it, I can't help you.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
CJ, I can't seem to escape the heat and humidity...had it big-time in Texas, and came home today for more of the same! :eek:

Supposed to last until the weekend, then dryer, cooler air is on the way.

Glad to hear you're home - now I'll stop before we get yelled at!!
 

Verax

Disappointed in Trump
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
12,240
Reaction score
4,519
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
He can hold a press conference, in the DOJ offices, if he chooses. To go specifically to two 100% black institutions within days of a controversial verdict and speak against both Florida law and the outcome of the trial is, in my view, very bad judgement on behalf of the top law official in the country, the whole country by the way, not just the 15% or so who happen to be African American.

Holder's speeches the past two days are as biased and inappropriate in this matter as President Obama's comment that if he'd had a son, he would look like Trayvon.

If you don't see it, I can't help you.

Your perspective is really different than mine so I'm having trouble understanding what kind of thought process is going on here.

First off you have some kind of aversion to him attending "100% black institutions" as though this is offensive? I don't understand.

Second you don't think he should be allowed to have an opinion on a controversial verdict? Again I just find this bizarre. He isn't allowed an opinion because he is an official?

Third his speeches are "biased"? Again you don't think he should be allowed an opinion? Should you be allowed an opinion? Isn't everything you say "biased"? When I use the word bias / biased... to me it is when a person is ignoring the truth or reality because they want to believe something else. Generally you use the word bias when somebody is being unreasonable. How is it unreasonable for him to state what he thinks?
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Florida SYG laws were not used in this case...

The juror who gave the Anderson Copper interview specifically referenced it when she was talking about Zimmerman. As soon as I saw her say that, I knew the left would have a poot storm about it and look, Rev. Al, Eric Holders and others are ranting about SYG today.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Your perspective is really different than mine so I'm having trouble understanding what kind of thought process is going on here.

First off you have some kind of aversion to him attending "100% black institutions" as though this is offensive? I don't understand.

Second you don't think he should be allowed to have an opinion on a controversial verdict? Again I just find this bizarre. He isn't allowed an opinion because he is an official?

Third his speeches are "biased"? Again you don't think he should be allowed an opinion? Should you be allowed an opinion? Isn't everything you say "biased"? When I use the word bias / biased... to me it is when a person is ignoring the truth or reality because they want to believe something else. Generally you use the word bias when somebody is being unreasonable. How is it unreasonable for him to state what he thinks?

I'm not going to get into an endless back and forth with you on this - I think my opinions on the matter have been stated clearly and you can agree or disagree, as you choose.

If you can't see the difference between me or any other anonymous person on DP expressing an opinion and the Attorney General of the US expressing an opinion, I can't help you.

You might want to do some research on people in positions of power and/or influence expressing their personal opinions on matters of public issue, particularly when those issues are related to their power/influence, and see how they were treated and how those opinions were received.
 

Verax

Disappointed in Trump
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
12,240
Reaction score
4,519
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I'm not going to get into an endless back and forth with you on this - I think my opinions on the matter have been stated clearly and you can agree or disagree, as you choose.

If you can't see the difference between me or any other anonymous person on DP expressing an opinion and the Attorney General of the US expressing an opinion, I can't help you.

You might want to do some research on people in positions of power and/or influence expressing their personal opinions on matters of public issue, particularly when those issues are related to their power/influence, and see how they were treated and how those opinions were received.

Wouldn't personal opinions on an issue related to their job be a professional opinion?

To be honest I think you're just finding things to complain about because you disagree with their position.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,703
Reaction score
20,419
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Wouldn't personal opinions on an issue related to their job be a professional opinion?

To be honest I think you're just finding things to complain about because you disagree with their position.

No, actually, that would describe Holder.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I live in a no retreat state and to be honest, my reading of the stand your ground law Florida has is more broad than I would want it to be. Juries here tend not to be too fixated on the no retreat part though and it becomes more of a subjective totality of the circumstances test in practice. I read Florida's law as being I could be walking down the street from a park carrying a baseball bat and someone could blow me away and get off, and even more likely so if I were black.

Interesting take, Fisher. If it's so easy, tell me why Zimmerman didn't use that defense.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Interesting take, Fisher. If it's so easy, tell me why Zimmerman didn't use that defense.

I am not sure what you are talking about but no retreat is not easier, it is harder, which is the way it should be. Despite all the complaining about Zimmerman never should have been charged, every case of a shooting in my city goes to a grand jury and with police shootings they have a special prosecutor and a special grand jury review it. The cops never get charged and everybody else always does. I am aware of no self-defense cases in my area not involving police that did not result in a trial.
 

Woodman909

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
1,285
Reaction score
565
Location
Southwest AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Good afternoon, CJ! :2wave:

This is outrageous! Zimmerman was judged by a jury of his peers, in accordance with the law, and they found him not guilty! Holder may have his own opinion, but to make a mockery of the process because he doesn't agree is certainly making him look petty and childish! And he represents this country as the Attorney General? :thumbdown:

This should be of no surprise to anyone. This administration is known for choosing which laws they will care to uphold.
 

MACS-24

OPO extraordinaire
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,665
Reaction score
1,322
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
LoL, I feel like I'm talking to a little kid.

Pot calling the kettle black . . . In holder's position and on official business (which he was) he is totally wrong to inject his opinion. He's the AG for christ sake.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I am not sure what you are talking about but no retreat is not easier, it is harder, which is the way it should be. Despite all the complaining about Zimmerman never should have been charged, every case of a shooting in my city goes to a grand jury and with police shootings they have a special prosecutor and a special grand jury review it. The cops never get charged and everybody else always does. I am aware of no self-defense cases in my area not involving police that did not result in a trial.

I got the idea you thought it was "easy" because you said this:

I read Florida's law as being I could be walking down the street from a park carrying a baseball bat and someone could blow me away and get off, and even more likely so if I were black.
 

Verax

Disappointed in Trump
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
12,240
Reaction score
4,519
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Pot calling the kettle black . . . In holder's position and on official business (which he was) he is totally wrong to inject his opinion. He's the AG for christ sake.

The AG is not allowed to comment about law? Interesting.
 
Top Bottom