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Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria

Abbazorkzog

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^ Another progressive Democrat's war mongering message.
Nobody wants war with Turkey, but it sure as hell seems like Turkey wants war with everyone. First they sabre-rattle with the Russians, shooting down one of their warplanes.
THEN they start threatening Saudi Arabia.
Threatening to knock Greece into the ****ing sea.
(And Erdogan's done this several times).
Oh, and they've been committing ethnocide against the Kurds since at least 1978,
on top of their likely responsibility in the Armenian ****ing genocide.
 

CaughtInThe

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^ Another progressive Democrat's war mongering message.
That's not a bad way to try to weasel out of your own culpability regarding the Kurds (and their families) who will now die.

A whole lot of people better start praying that there is no hell.
 

Airyaman

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I get the feeling Turkey will not strike the Kurds. Congress will pass veto proof legislation to place crippling sanctions on them if they even kill one Kurd.
 

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Erdogan says Turkey to launch 'air and ground' operation in Syria

Erdogan's goal here is to ethnically cleanse the northern Syrian 'Rojava' homeland of the Kurds, America's best ally in Syria for the past four years.

These ethnic Kurds will be either killed or forcibly removed and replaced with Sunni Syrian refugees from Idlib province where Russian bombing has leveled most cities and towns.

The YPG/YPJ Kurdish militia's bore the brunt of the fighting on the ground against ISIS and AQ in Syria.



U.S. Starts Troop Pullout From Turkey's Border In Northeastern Syria

Trump is betraying an ally and doing his part to allow the ethnic cleansing of Rojava by his dictator friend Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Islamist AK Party.

It's a sad day for America.
It just proves to anybody that this US government is totally untrustworthy when it comes to allies. The Kurds are being stabbed in the back by Donald Trump after all they have done to fight ISIS, it is totally disgusting to hand over the reigns of any region of Syria to one of the most despicable despotic rulers of that region.
 

Oozlefinch

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It just proves to anybody that this US government is totally untrustworthy when it comes to allies. The Kurds are being stabbed in the back by Donald Trump after all they have done to fight ISIS, it is totally disgusting to hand over the reigns of any region of Syria to one of the most despicable despotic rulers of that region.
Once again.

The PKK is a terrorist group. NATO says it is a terrorist group. Turkey says it is a terrorist group. Even the US says it is a terrorist group.

The PKK is no more typical of Kurdish fighters than the Taliban was typical of Mujahedeen. Yes, they were part of a movement, but one that even most of the other members of that group oppose and condemn.

Yet people still refuse to do any kind of research, and defend that group because others with a political agenda are not giving them the facts and they are being led by their noses like sheep.

Please people, spend at least 5 minutes researching the facts. Do not just accept something because somebody tells you how to believe.

I even encourage people to check on things I say. Become informed individuals, research and decide things based on facts, not because "So and So" on "XYZ TV network" told you so.

Then contemplate on what you learn. When somebody substitutes something like "PKK" and "Kurds" and trying to combine them all together, there is an agenda at play.
 

Peter King

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Rep. Kinzinger on Trump's Syria withdrawal: 'We certainly have not won the war against ISIS'

Before Trump’s withdrawal announcement, the administration demanded that the SDF remove defensive barriers, leaving the SDF vulnerable to an impending Turkish intervention. And they did so.


USAF Lieutenant Colonel Adam Kinzinger



I don't agree with Rep. Kinzinger on everything, but he is spot-on here.

I'm beginning to get the notion that Trump wants to leave the US and the world in as bad a shape as possible for his Democrat successor.

Related: Trump Syria withdrawal decision immoral and short-sighted | Military Times
His final F you to America.....
 

gulfman

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With Thanksgiving only a month away it might be best to get your holiday turkey now.
 

beerftw

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Once again.

The PKK is a terrorist group. NATO says it is a terrorist group. Turkey says it is a terrorist group. Even the US says it is a terrorist group.

The PKK is no more typical of Kurdish fighters than the Taliban was typical of Mujahedeen. Yes, they were part of a movement, but one that even most of the other members of that group oppose and condemn.

Yet people still refuse to do any kind of research, and defend that group because others with a political agenda are not giving them the facts and they are being led by their noses like sheep.

Please people, spend at least 5 minutes researching the facts. Do not just accept something because somebody tells you how to believe.

I even encourage people to check on things I say. Become informed individuals, research and decide things based on facts, not because "So and So" on "XYZ TV network" told you so.

Then contemplate on what you learn. When somebody substitutes something like "PKK" and "Kurds" and trying to combine them all together, there is an agenda at play.
The pkk are internationally recognized as terrorists, I think what sane people are scared of is turkey views kurds as lesser citizens and might try ethnic cleansing or genocide, something turkey has done before especially at the end of the ottoman empire when they went bat**** insane or at the beginning of turkey with ataturk.

However russia iran and syria have all moved forces near the area and have warned turkey, russia supports turkeys defensive interests but opposes anything past that, syria and iran oppose it altogether, and all three nations have pretty much said ok go after the pkk but nothing more or else. Given the defense situation between russia syria and iran turkey would be pretty damn foolish to try and go after anything but the pkk unless they wanted to fight a three or four front war during their syria operations, with one actor being far more powerful than they are and nato pact not coming into play at all since turkey would have started the conflict.
 

Oozlefinch

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The pkk are internationally recognized as terrorists, I think what sane people are scared of is turkey views kurds as lesser citizens and might try ethnic cleansing or genocide, something turkey has done before especially at the end of the ottoman empire when they went bat**** insane or at the beginning of turkey with ataturk.
But other than the PKK and similar groups Turkey has actually been rather generous with the Kurds. Not allowing them to set up a separate Kurdistan, but accepting refugees and even giving support to the more moderate groups.

And Turkey has been exclusively going after the PKK and allied groups, not the other Kurdish fighters. Yet not only do we see most reporting not specify that it is the PKK they are after (calling them simply "Kurds"), but many in here actually defending the PKK. Trying to paint them as "mainstream Kurds", and completely ignoring that almost every group has recognized them as terrorists. As I said, that is like lumping the Taliban and al-Qaeda as being the same as say the Northern Alliance in 2001.

Or today, trying to combine Fatah and Hamas together as "Palestine". Both groups are indeed Palestinian, but have vastly different goals and how they are trying to achieve them.
 

Peter King

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Yeah, I was hoping the threat of sanctions would have held them back, but Trump probably gave them some assurances...
Well his attitude to the Kurds was painfully obvious when he stated that it is not like the Kurds helped us on D-Day. Which was just slightly more sane than saying why would he protect the Kurds, it was not like they helped the 13 colonies fight the British during the war of independence.

Trump is a raving lunatic and an untrustworthy partner for any country/any people or person. At the first chance he feels he can get away with it he will stab them in the back.
 

Rogue Valley

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Well his attitude to the Kurds was painfully obvious when he stated that it is not like the Kurds helped us on D-Day.


Trump is a raving lunatic and an untrustworthy partner for any country/any people or person.
Agreed. And I'll enjoy the day Trump betrays the Republicans tremendously.
 

Rogue Valley

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Turkey's Erdogan warns of flooding Europe with Syrian refugees if EU calls assault an 'invasion'

That's a swell NATO partner we have there. Yes indeedy.



Trump Is Complicit in Erdogan's Ethnic Cleansing

What Turkey's president is openly planning is the forced exchange of one ethnic population for another. That’s Ethnic Cleansing 101. And Trump rolled over to let it happen.


Kurdish women and children flee from Turkish military forces and Turkey's Islamist militia allies.

10/10/19
The Trump administration’s decision to immediately withdraw U.S. forces from the Syrian border and allow Turkish troops to invade is not merely the abandonment of the West’s Kurdish allies, but a warrant for ethnic cleansing. Trump’s mind was apparently made up after a telephone call with Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Trump’s press secretary then released a statement which read, "Turkey will soon be moving forward with its planned operation into northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and the United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial "caliphate," will no longer be in the immediate area." And with those words, the White House washed its hands of the fate of Syria’s Kurds and the future of the People’s Protection Units (YPG), the Kurdish forces who lost thousands of soldiers while fighting to defeat ISIS, the scourge of the civilized world. The rise of ISIS was made possible by Ankara’s inaction when, from 2013-14, hordes of international militants, fanatics and psychopaths, not to mention truckloads of weapons, crossed Turkey’s border into Syria, on the so-called Jihadi Highway. Why the need for a 30km "safe zone"? Turkey wants to push the YPG as far back as possible to prevent, or at least have a buffer, against an autonomous Kurdish enclave dominated by the YPG’s political arm, the Democratic Union Party. However, another reason for Turkey’s zeal for establishing a large buffer zone is so it has room to resettle millions of Arab [Sunni] Syrian refugees currently living in Turkey. What is Erdogan and his government’s answer to the YPG Kurdish forces security question and the political problem of hosting millions of Syrians? A good old dose of ethnic cleansing.

The UN fears that a Turkish incursion into Syria would lead to the mass displacement of the region’s Kurds, which would in effect open up space for Turkey’s plan to resettle two million Syrian refugees in this "safe zone" and perhaps another one million in territory beyond. However, the vast majority of Syrian refugees in Turkey are Sunni Arabs and not originally from the area of the planned resettlement, which is mainly Kurdish. In other words, what’s being planned is the forced exchange of one ethnic population for another. That’s Ethnic Cleansing 101. And nobody can plead ignorance. This is exactly what happened last year when Turkish backed forces invaded Afrin. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled while Turkey, by its own admission, Arab Syrian refugees into the area, as many as 300,000. If implemented, Erdogan’s ethnic cleansing campaign in Syria is sure to be remembered alongside Saddam Hussein’s genocidal al-Anfal campaign in Iraq, and Hafez Assad’s Arab resettlement policies and Baathist denials of Kurdish rights, not to mention Turkey’s attempts to demographically reengineer Kurdish regions during the 1920s and 1930s and the brutal nature of Turkey’s war with the PKK. It will also be remembered that the White House was complicit.
That some people on this board agree with and support Erdogan's brutal ethnic-cleansing of the Syrian Kurds (our close Syrian ally for the past four years) is shameful.

The Kurds have suffered ~11,000 dead in their fight to the death with ISIS. 109 more died yesterday from Turkish guns.

American betrayers - a pox on your house.


A Syrian Kurd town in flames after a Turkish air attack.
 

Abbazorkzog

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What astounds me is people who claim to be against endless regime-change war, and then turn around and endorse a brutal dictator's campaign of anschluss.
 

beerftw

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But other than the PKK and similar groups Turkey has actually been rather generous with the Kurds. Not allowing them to set up a separate Kurdistan, but accepting refugees and even giving support to the more moderate groups.

And Turkey has been exclusively going after the PKK and allied groups, not the other Kurdish fighters. Yet not only do we see most reporting not specify that it is the PKK they are after (calling them simply "Kurds"), but many in here actually defending the PKK. Trying to paint them as "mainstream Kurds", and completely ignoring that almost every group has recognized them as terrorists. As I said, that is like lumping the Taliban and al-Qaeda as being the same as say the Northern Alliance in 2001.

Or today, trying to combine Fatah and Hamas together as "Palestine". Both groups are indeed Palestinian, but have vastly different goals and how they are trying to achieve them.
Turkey in general has treated the kurds worse than the other 3 nations, but to be fair that ill treatment did not start with erdogan, it has been ongoing since ataturk in trying to unite turkey and trying to punish minorities who would not abandon their ways for the turks. Things like banning their language, banning mentioning them in schools, banning even mentioning kurds for a long time, as for quite a while it was illegal to identify as a kurd or even call someone a kurd as at the time their law specified that kurds were officially mountain turks.



Now when it comes to the pkk you are right in that people are trying to lump all the groups together, they did it with the kurds, they did it with palestine, they did it in syria by trying to lump every group including isis and hts in the opposition category, it is nothing more than a strategy to cover up the most brutal aspects of armed opposition by lumping them with the general populace in order to confuse people into thinking a humanitarian crisis is going on when in reality the intended target was either terrorists or armed combatents but ofcourse telling the truth does not further other nations causes nor make good news headlines.
 

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Turkey in general has treated the kurds worse than the other 3 nations, but to be fair that ill treatment did not start with erdogan, it has been ongoing since ataturk in trying to unite turkey and trying to punish minorities who would not abandon their ways for the turks. Things like banning their language, banning mentioning them in schools, banning even mentioning kurds for a long time, as for quite a while it was illegal to identify as a kurd or even call someone a kurd as at the time their law specified that kurds were officially mountain turks.
That was nothing unusual at all in that era. Japan also did the exact same thing in nations they had annexed, including Okinawa. And to a lesser extent Korea.

Take over an area, and try to get the population to identify as members of the new rulers. And hopefully within a few generations they actually will be exactly that.

However, like the Jews, the Kurds have been amazingly resistant to assimilation. And like with the Armenians, there are a lot of old hatreds that causes many to actively resist that kind of assimilation.

Which is why I am glad I am an "American". We really do not have a "nationality" as most in the world recognize it. We are a conglomerate of people around the world, who within the last 240 or so years have come to identify with an essentially made-up nationality. That has no real connection to any single country or even Continent. Your ancestors could come from anywhere in the world, and you can be an "American".
 

Rogue Valley

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The Trump administration has joined with Russia in vetoing a UN Security Council resolution condemning his dictator friend Erdogan’s ethnic cleansing operation in Syria.

Trump and Putin against the other permanent UNSC members plus against the [former] US ally Syrian Kurds. Let that sink in.
 

Abbazorkzog

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The Trump administration has joined with Russia in vetoing a UN Security Council resolution condemning his dictator friend Erdogan’s ethnic cleansing operation in Syria.

Trump and Putin against the other permanent UNSC members plus against the [former] US ally Syrian Kurds. Let that sink in.
This is a sad day. The UN has been hijacked by personality cultists...
 
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