• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Equality's Not All It's Cracked Up To Be

LowDown

Curmudgeon
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
If equality means sending my daughters to war, I want no part of it. “In the event of a draft, sending women off to war does not present an equal opportunity to women by nature of the fact that women are physically different from men. As much as we may work to try to level the playing field between men and women, the physical differences between us as created by nature make us inherently unequal and cannot be universally overcome.”

Too bad. You women demanded equality, and you got it. If there's going to be a draft it must be equal. If we're going to go back to embracing the fundamental differences between men and women, well, then there are a lot of other changes that need to be made.

Instapundit » Blog Archive » TOO LATE, SISTER, YOU ASKED FOR IT, YOU GOT IT: If equality means sending my daughters to war, I wan?
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
27,114
Reaction score
23,863
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If anything, we need to agree that equality is not exclusively about when it is convenient to apply it. We either have equality as a standard, or we do not.
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,067
Reaction score
37,723
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Everyone is equal. But some are more equal than others.

- Animal Farm
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I will never agree to sending women to war like I will never agree to having women firefighters, but my opinion doesn't mean much. Either way, the idea of a draft just disgusts me in general.
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,067
Reaction score
37,723
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I will never agree to sending women to war like I will never agree to having women firefighters, but my opinion doesn't mean much. Either way, the idea of a draft just disgusts me in general.
Yeah I agree. **** the draft.
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,067
Reaction score
37,723
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
So, that's where the quote came from?

George Orwell?

Didn't know that!
Yes. If you read George Orwell, you'd have know that that quote was written by Animal Farm. [emoji56]
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,006
Reaction score
46,819
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yes. If you read George Orwell, you'd have know that that quote was written by Animal Farm. [emoji56]
I use that line all the time on my kids, but never knew where it came from!

Now my Dad, being an immigrant, used:

"America is a democracy, but our family is not; now do what I say"! :mrgreen:
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Yep. If you are going to have a draft you should draft women as well. Of course, you still have to meet the physical requirements of the MOS you are going into so the odds of your average woman drafted off the street actually qualifying for a combat position are very low. But then most jobs in the military aren't combat positions.

But that aside, yeah, **** the draft.
 

Mithrae

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
5,848
Reaction score
2,709
Location
Australia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Is there actually any reasonable possibility of conscription being reinstated in the foreseeable future?

Or is this just a would-be scare story against those damn women wanting to earn their own money?
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,067
Reaction score
37,723
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Is there actually any reasonable possibility of conscription being reinstated in the foreseeable future?

Or is this just a would-be scare story against those damn women wanting to earn their own money?
Huh? I don't get it.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
43,950
Reaction score
12,030
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Is there actually any reasonable possibility of conscription being reinstated in the foreseeable future?

Or is this just a would-be scare story against those damn women wanting to earn their own money?

Unless we actually go to war with, say, Russia or China, no.
 

LaylaWindu

One with the Force
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
5,435
Reaction score
1,675
Location
PA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Too bad. You women demanded equality, and you got it. If there's going to be a draft it must be equal. If we're going to go back to embracing the fundamental differences between men and women, well, then there are a lot of other changes that need to be made.

Instapundit » Blog Archive » TOO LATE, SISTER, YOU ASKED FOR IT, YOU GOT IT: If equality means sending my daughters to war, I wan?

Well I can only speak for me. As a person I'm not a fan of the draft but I get it. As a woman if the draft exist I have no problem being included. Why would I?
 

Sweden

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
2,450
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
i'll second that.

So if, sometime in the future, an impoverished USA is attacked you anti-draft people do not think young Americans, of either sex, should not be conscripted to defend their country?
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,183
Reaction score
21,596
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
So if, sometime in the future, an impoverished USA is attacked you anti-draft people do not think young Americans, of either sex, should not be conscripted to defend their country?

Is a government that temporarily enslaves its citizens worth defending?
 

Sweden

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
2,450
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Too bad. You women demanded equality, and you got it. If there's going to be a draft it must be equal. If we're going to go back to embracing the fundamental differences between men and women, well, then there are a lot of other changes that need to be made.

Instapundit » Blog Archive » TOO LATE, SISTER, YOU ASKED FOR IT, YOU GOT IT: If equality means sending my daughters to war, I wan?

Of course a men only draft is no longer possible. Any potential draftee need only do a Jenner and declare himself to have transitioned to a woman. The purveyors of high-heeled shoes would make a killing.
 

Sweden

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
2,450
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Is a government that temporarily enslaves its citizens worth defending?

I thought Britain in 1940 was worth defending but at 4 I was too young to be drafted. In 1952 I thought the freedom of S Korea was worth fighting for but at 16 I was already in the Royal Navy and so could not be drafted.
 

Mithrae

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
5,848
Reaction score
2,709
Location
Australia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Huh? I don't get it.

The not-so-subtle undertone of the OP looks very much to be "Oh look, women don't really want equality if they don't want to go into front line combat."
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
77,064
Reaction score
61,926
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So if, sometime in the future, an impoverished USA is attacked you anti-draft people do not think young Americans, of either sex, should not be conscripted to defend their country?

there are certain narrow, desperate situations in which i could begin to support a temporary draft. however, as it stands, i'm glad that we have an all volunteer military, and i am for keeping it that way.
 

LowDown

Curmudgeon
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
The not-so-subtle undertone of the OP looks very much to be "Oh look, women don't really want equality if they don't want to go into front line combat."

Equality means equality of responsibilities as well as privileges.

To those who say **** the draft, I say, What a cop out! I don't recall any draft in the US ever being about a war that we wanted to fight. It was about wars that were thrust upon us. When the draft in WWII was implemented it was because we were fighting for our very survival. In Vietnam we were in the middle of the Cold War, struggling against a rival superpower that was trying to cut us off from allies and resources and kill us.
 

LowDown

Curmudgeon
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Of course a men only draft is no longer possible. Any potential draftee need only do a Jenner and declare himself to have transitioned to a woman. The purveyors of high-heeled shoes would make a killing.

No problem. On induction people get a buzz cut and green fatigues to wear. They all end up looking the same.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
27,114
Reaction score
23,863
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Is there actually any reasonable possibility of conscription being reinstated in the foreseeable future?

Or is this just a would-be scare story against those damn women wanting to earn their own money?

We have two very separate issues that become a problem when used together.

Conscription has always been a Constitutional question, and there is just as much case law allowing it as various filings against it. But I would say that because of so many bouts of draft / conscription in our history it is likely to be seen again. All it is going to take is the scope of some conflict warranting forcing people into the military. I do suspect though that when/if it ever does happen there will be challenge on more grounds than just "conscientious objection" to the conflict in question.

Our other issue is equality between men and women in terms of whatever opportunity (perhaps better said as lack of whatever restriction.) That is a large area of discussion as we are talking about more than women serving in the military on the front lines or women making the same pay as men for a given job title / function. We are also talking about dealing with a mentality of applying equality when it is convenient to do so but then arguably applying unequal standards in other regards. I do not necessarily agree with this point of view, but it has been argued that because women are more likely to be sexually and/or physically assaulted than men our laws and response ends up focused (for lack of a better way to say it) on that reality. Perhaps to the point that when violence does happen to a man it is diminished in some way (arguable.)

There is a bigger issue at hand though when it comes to men and women in the military. Sure, there are plenty of nations where women already have front line roles but there are also plenty of nations (prone to conflict and/or our involvement) where there are clear barriers established between the roles of a man and woman. Our progressive attitude in this area is not a bullet proof vest against various nations where it is plausible for treatment in warfare to not be equal no matter our intentions.

My point is these are big subjects worthy of real discussion, that is often diminished in conversations like this.
 

Sweden

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
2,450
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
there are certain narrow, desperate situations in which i could begin to support a temporary draft. however, as it stands, i'm glad that we have an all volunteer military, and i am for keeping it that way.

As it it stands so am I. In Sweden all the military are volunteers, all 32 of them. Ok, I exaggerate, there are a few more than that - but far too few to even put up even some token defense of the country.
 
Top Bottom