gordontravels
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 758
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- in the middle of America
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
ILikeDubyah said:I'm not the poster you're looking for, but after reading that, I can agree with what they said.
nkgupta80 said:WWII French resistance was against a military occupation, not innocent German children running down the streets of Paris. And secondly the Nazi's were an unparalelled evil. Terrorists may be targeting the US because they believe us to be evil (and yes some of the things the we do, does foster much hate against us), but these guys blow up innocent children. They blow up for the sake of instilling fear. To compare the two is just plain ****iing retarded. Some of us really starting to lose a sense of how horrible the Nazis were.
AS THE GERMANS LOST, it's the French (among others) who wrote history. So, they are NOT labelled terrorists. IF the Gremans had won, they would have been labelled terrorists. As you stated correctly, the German invaders called the French resistance terrorists.
In Iraq, the invasion army is the US-led coalition. The Iraqi army and police are helping the invadors. If you take the situation in France during WWII, the French police was a legitimate target, as they helped the nazis. So, the fatwa condeming attacks against civilians but accepting attacks against the military and their allies is understandable.
ILikeDubyah said:(Before you read this, please know that I support this war & the USA, 110%. I'm just saying how I can see how comparing the French resistance & the Muslim Extremeists makes sense to me.)
You almost made my point, until you went the opposite way with it. In the eyes of the Muslim Extremists, the US, and ANYONE who acts or believes diffrently than themselves (other less extreme Muslims included) see us as worse than Nazis...Nazis were totally evil, but not as evil as "Satan"....what is is that the Muslim nations call the US????? "The Great Satan."
Now, the people actually orchestrating these bombings that kill innocents and out soldiers are about 1000% more crazy than the leaders that are telling them that America is the "Great Satan. Therefore, they're using "whatever means necessary" to end our "occupation" of their land.
The US blows up for the sake of installing fear as well....remember "shock & awe??? What were we doing? Dropping boquets of flowers? Think some of those bombs may have hit civilians? I believe we made Saddam afraid for his life, which is why we found him in a 3' X 5' hole...... Fear works.
Anyhow, back to the analogy at hand....The Muslim extremists are exactly like the French Resistance of WW2. They do see the US as an occupying force, and they will stop at nothing to get the "Great Satan" off of their land. I believe if there were German children in France during the war, the French would have killed them, or at lease used them as bartering chips...wouldn't put it past the french, especially since they had already been humiliated by having to surrender.
Look at it from a perspective other than your own, and the analogy makes sense....to the people commiting the attacks, The US = Nazi Germany, the US & England = the "Axis of Evil"... Saddam's fallen regime = surrendered France, and the extremists themselves = the french resistance....Lets just hope that Iran & others don't become the "Allies", or we may get into some deep doo-doo.
Please forgive all typos....wrote this in about 5 minutes.:lol:
epr64 said:I see that fair-play isn't part of Gordon's game..
1/ every question you asked WAS answered.
2/ I mainly keep myself in the today's news forum.
Of course, if lying by implying I didn't answer your questions, and doing that in a thread buried in another part of the forum, seems acceptable by you.. that's YOUR problem.
But you also seem to have a very limited capacity to read and understand arguments. Maybe that's the reason of your hit-and-run tactics.
So, for the benefit of those on this forum who CAN read and understand, I stated that, as the nazis called the french terrorists, the label would have sticked if they had won the war.
To be more precise:
Y
History:
This thread posted today 04:16 PM
My answers on Today's news:
Yesterday, 06:49 PM
Yesterday, 10:52 AM
etc.. etc..
gordontravels said:Sorry if you missed my other posts to the forum so I will say it here for you.
I served in the military so those who agree and those who disagree can do it in a free country. Protesters have every right to peacefully protest in this country and a biased media who should report instead of provide commentary unlabeled, are free to do as they wish. I fought for that. Many didn't volunteer like me or weren't drafted. They kept this country going while I was away and it was here when I came home. Everyone does their part whether they agree with one side of politics or not. That's what I fought for; their rights as well as mine.
It doesn't make any difference whether Germany won the war or not. It is only germain that they didn't. I believe you list your posts under the label of "history"? Aside from the name calling, I think australianlibertarian has some good points.
You can say "if" all you want but the Germans never would have won that war and even when they were losing, the Nazis were calling the French Resistance terrorists. It's like the kid laying in the dirt after the fight yelling, "I'll get you!" What Adolph Hitler or his minions said or didn't say is only calculated by the actual words; perverted words from a perversion of idiology. Calling someone a name doesn't make it so. Even if you want to keep citing the Nazis for their take on world history I suggest you actually do read some of what I proposed and maybe find for yourself that they were that perversion of ideals and words both. You will read what a Nazi thought of the Nazis.
Yes. Read. :duel
gordontravels said:You leave out something important. In 1948 the U.N. created Palestine as a home for Jews and Arabs. The Arabs attacked the Jews as soon as the British left. We support both an Arab and Jewish state to be lived in in peace and democracy. There is where the Muslim Fundamentalists come in.
According to the Fundamentalists, Jews and those of he west, in particular Christians must come to Islam or be put to the sword. So say we weren't in Iraq or even Europe of South Korea. Do you think al Quaida would not be a terrorist organization carrying out their perverted definition of Islam?
Wake up, they use the weapon of terror not because they want us out of a country but because they are Islamic Fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is there regardless of military matters and since it is a extremeist position of the Islamic Fundamentalists they will seek martyrdom. Spain pulled out of Iraq because their new government said they would after Spain was bombed. That was what al Quaida said had to happen. Spain did pull out and has suffered bombings since.
Fundamentalism in Islam is the enemy whether there is war in Iraq or not. :duel
ILikeDubyah said:Yes, The Nazis were calling the French resistance terrorists, much as we're calling the Muslim Extremists terrorists....it's all point of view....
gordontravels said:To equate this country, it's leadership or it's people with the Nazis or to associate this country, it's leadership or citizens like me who do call the Islamic Fundamentalists terrorists as doing the same as the Nazis did is pure ignorance and is all I need to know. If it's all a point of view then I am proud not to share it.
The only thing I see that the Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists and the Nazis have in common is that they indescriminately murder children and civilians. Now I suppose you will say I did in war for my country what my country is doing now but that would just add to the ignorance. Your "much as" comment is deplorable.
By the way, if the Nazis had taken over the world you might not have been here to argue your "point of view". They murdered millions just because they were of a different race. Not too hard to murder your folks if they got out of line. :duel
.nkgupta80 said:people sometimes don't like hearing different points of views objectively. I understand what ILikeDubyah is saying. In the terrorist's point of view, we are the Nazis and they are like the french resistance.
ILikeDubyah said:Yes, The Nazis were calling the French resistance terrorists, much as we're calling the Muslim Extremists terrorists....it's all point of view....
gordontravels said:You begin your post with "Yes". Now you say it's just a point of view you understand. I don't understand it at all because it has no basis in fact or history. I only read what you say. Pitiful. Don't worry about my breathing. After being shot 3 times I still breathe fine. Just play your word game - I say - I didn't say - and then just write it off to someone else reading it.
The Nazis were an aberation on the body of history. I don't think you understand that. The Islamic Fundamentalist is an aberation on the body of history. I don't think you understand that.
I've said before. If we never went to war against Osama, the Taliban or Saddam we would still be a target of Islamic Fundamentalists. It's not because of the war so why should we care if we kill them there. :duel
A bit of information could help you in here.gordontravels said:
Wake up, they use the weapon of terror not because they want us out of a country but because they are Islamic Fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is there regardless of military matters and since it is a extremeist position of the Islamic Fundamentalists they will seek martyrdom. Spain pulled out of Iraq because their new government said they would after Spain was bombed. That was what al Quaida said had to happen. Spain did pull out and has suffered bombings since.
:duel
ILikeDubyah said:I'm not playing word games, you're just reading and interpreting things the wrong way.
You call the Nazis & the Islamic Extremists aberrations on the body of history....What about Attila the Hunn & the Mongolian hordes (World Domination), What about Alexander the Great (World Domination), and the Romans (World Domination), or Colonial Americans (Fighting for what they believe is right) for that matter....There have always been groups people bent on total world domination at any cost, and people bent on defending what they believe is right, no matter what the cost. So, to say that the Nazis (World Domination) or Muslims (Defending what THEY believe is right) are outside of the expected course of history is, again, not looking at things objectivly.
I did begin my post with "Yes", because the Germans DID see the French resistance as terrorists. The tone and meaning of that post were lost in translation from spoken word to typeset. I NEVER once said that I agree with the P.O.V, and if you Take a look at an excerpt (below) from one of my original posts, you'll see that:
(Before you read this, please know that I support this war & the USA, 110%. I'm just saying how I can see how comparing the French resistance & the Muslim Extremeists makes sense to me.)
I said that it makes sense, NOT that I agree with it.
I'm not playing word games, you're just reading and interpreting things the wrong way.
On a totally different note, How were you shot & which war were you in? (Not to be mean, but even if you were in a war, it has no bearing on this debate either...Just because you may have been, doesn't mean you have all the answers....Look at Kerry & McCain....totally clueless about most things.)
nkgupta80 said:all he's doin is lookin in the eyes of the Nazis here. The Nazis officially conquered France. However there was the French resistance. That is the same as the Iraqi-Resistance. We happen to call the Iraqi-Resistance terrorism. Thus by logic French-Resistance = Iraqi Terrorism. I, however, don't see the Iraqi resistance as terrorism.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?