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Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

CriticalThought

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WASHINGTON — A Defense Department study group has found that the United States could lift its ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military with little risk to current war efforts, The Washington Post reported Thursday.

"More than 70 percent of respondents to a survey sent to active-duty and reserve troops over the summer said the effect of repealing the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy would be positive, mixed or nonexistent," the online Post report said, citing two unnamed sources familiar with the document, due to be delivered to President Barack Obama on December 1.

"The survey results led the report's authors to conclude that objections to openly gay colleagues would drop once troops were able to live and serve alongside them," the Post reported.
AFP: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

As some of you may have recalled, Marine General John Amos, the new top Marine commander, argued that any changes could hurt the Marine corps’ effectiveness. He cited that 95% of Marines were worried about the repeal of the ban against openly gay soldier based on show of hands at open town hall style meetings

To recap, the DADT policy has been found...

-By a federal court to be unconstitutional in how it is enforced
-By a federal court to endanger national security as a resulting of losing vital units
-To be opposed by 70-80% of Americans
-To be irrelevant to most troops

Furthermore, the December lame duck session of Congress will likely be the last chance that the policy will be repealed despite all these overwhelming factors against it. Once Republicans take control of the House next year, it will be at least another 2 years before the policy can be repealed. Republicans have an enormous incentive to make sure this policy is not repealed because it would likely mean that Obama would lose many of his gay constituents and financial backers and would find himself considerably worse off come 2012. It also speaks of the mountain gay rights activists have to climb when they cannot get such a policy repealed despite having a Democratically controlled Presidency and Congress for 2 years.
 

Deuce

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To recap, the DADT policy has been found...

-By a federal court to be unconstitutional in how it is enforced
-By a federal court to endanger national security as a resulting of losing vital units
-To be opposed by 70-80% of Americans
-To be irrelevant to most troops
Also opposed by the Secretary of Defense and (supposedly) the Commander-in-Chief, so we can add that to your list and come up with the conclusion:
Why the **** are we still talking about this? Just do it already?

Where are all the conservatives with the "will of the people" remarks? The people want it. The troops don't care. Their commanders want it. The only people who DON'T want it are the idiots in congress!
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Also opposed by the Secretary of Defense and (supposedly) the Commander-in-Chief, so we can add that to your list and come up with the conclusion:
Why the **** are we still talking about this? Just do it already?

Where are all the conservatives with the "will of the people" remarks? The people want it. The troops don't care. Their commanders want it. The only people who DON'T want it are the idiots in congress!


well up until recently weren't they mostly democrats? :confused:
 

winston53660

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Damn activists judges!!!!!

Oh wait wrong thread........:bolt
 

OscarB63

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Damn activists judges!!!!!

Oh wait wrong thread........:bolt
well, with people on both sides of the aisle starting 2-3 threads a day on the issue...it's easy to get them confused.
 

Wiseone

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Whoever said that Republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots?
90% of the liberals you talk to :shrug:
But Deuce didn't say it. So really you're insulting him for something he never said at all. He said "the idiots in Congress" and you assume he was talking just about Republicans AND assumed he was Democrat and then accused him of being a hypocrite on those two assumptions.

I can't make it any clearer.
 

OscarB63

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But Deuce didn't say it. So really you're insulting him for something he never said at all. He said "the idiots in Congress" and you assume he was talking just about Republicans AND assumed he was Democrat and then accused him of being a hypocrite on those two assumptions.

I can't make it any clearer.
get your panties in a wad and randomly accuse people of crap they haven't done much? I never said Duece said anything. I said 90% of liberals will say that republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots.

I never said Duece was a liberal
I never said that, if he was a liberal, he was in the 90%

Deuce is a big boy, he doesn't need you to fight his non-existant battles for him :2bigcry:
 

zimmer

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It's Veteran's Day, and I want to put out a Thank You to all those who served.
You've freed hundreds of millions of people from tyranny, and kept us safe.

Thank You, and God Bless You and your families.

.
 

MSgt

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AFP: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

As some of you may have recalled, Marine General John Amos, the new top Marine commander, argued that any changes could hurt the Marine corps’ effectiveness. He cited that 95% of Marines were worried about the repeal of the ban against openly gay soldier based on show of hands at open town hall style meetings

To recap, the DADT policy has been found...

-By a federal court to be unconstitutional in how it is enforced
-By a federal court to endanger national security as a resulting of losing vital units
-To be opposed by 70-80% of Americans
-To be irrelevant to most troops

Furthermore, the December lame duck session of Congress will likely be the last chance that the policy will be repealed despite all these overwhelming factors against it. Once Republicans take control of the House next year, it will be at least another 2 years before the policy can be repealed. Republicans have an enormous incentive to make sure this policy is not repealed because it would likely mean that Obama would lose many of his gay constituents and financial backers and would find himself considerably worse off come 2012. It also speaks of the mountain gay rights activists have to climb when they cannot get such a policy repealed despite having a Democratically controlled Presidency and Congress for 2 years.
First of all, the Marines will speak for the Marines. "Most troops" is deceiving when we use non-troop Air Men to pump up the numbers. If they cared to show the numbers as reflective of the individual branches then we would see a greater truth between the actual "troop" branches and the rest. A substantial number of soldiers and Marines were deployed during these questionaires and are not a part of this percentage. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of actual troops. Therefore, it being irrelevent to "most" troops is deceiving. It is actually a lie and highly reflective of mostly reservists, National Guardsmen, Coast Guard, and Air Men. It is only irrelevent for 70-80 percent of those who are largely not a part of the deployed and deploying forces. Second of all, let's look at some interesting consecutive notes here....

1) DADT has been a burden upon the Marine Corps and the Army. And yes, as always, I can back this up. The numbers show sharp increase in court martials and administration seperations the year DADT began. The numbers steadily grew in all 4 branches over the years. After a while it became obvious that most "gays" voicing their sexual prefernece weren't gay and were usinjg DADT for a quick back to civilian life. However, post 9-11, the Marine Corps and the Army saw drastic drops in these numbers and they have stayed low ever since. Only the Air Force has an extreme amount of numbers forced out. The fact here is that the Marine Corps and the Army no longer wished to allow DADT to dwindle numbers on the eve of deployments and such. The Air Force have still not figured out where they fit into this war so they could afford to continue the DADT game. Since 9/11, the Marine Corps and Army have been largely looking the other way despite Washington's approval of DADT.

2) President Obama requests the Pentagon conduct studies on how to impliment gays serving openly in the military. Not "if" they could serve, but "how to impliment" the inevitable.

3) A federal judge declares DADT unconstitutional after a long suit.

4) The Air Force immediately declares that they are through with DADT.

5) In short time, the Pentagon issues an order to suspend DADT.

6) BUT...... The Secretary of Defense immediately issues a later order to the Pentagon to continue DADT because that is the "law of the land." President Obama's step backwards is probably due to his need to continue keeping the military support and wants to end the policy with the military after the study is concluded next month. Another possibility is that he wishes for complete credit for ending DADT and allowing gays to serve openly and therefore ordered the military to "continue" heeding DADT until more convenient to the administration.


The conclusion here is that the military is largely through pandering to DADT. It is Washington that is proving to be the brick wall. Another conclusion, given the numbers and the military actions, is that DADT was always more a Washington policy and less a military one.
 
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MKULTRABOY

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I said 90% of liberals will say that republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots.
You're Implying their counterparts are otherwise?
Also... untrue anyways.
 

OscarB63

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You're Implying their counterparts are otherwise?
I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
90% on either side of the aisle will claim that "the other guys" are idiots.
 

MSgt

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I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
Because people are always on the defense around here and they need their drama. People also find more pleasure in creating argument on the non-issues rather than display their absolute ineptness at the issues at hands. You can't talk about how up in the clouds Liberals are without also declaring that Conservatives have problems too. You can't talk about Islam without either declaring Christianity as imperfect or that most Muslims are good people. You can't talk about how stupid a politician on the Right is without choosing a politician on the Left to pick on too.

Conversations and discussions always seem to get trumped by senseless argument, bickering, and jack-assery.
 

MKULTRABOY

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I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
90% on either side of the aisle will claim that "the other guys" are idiots.
Still probably untrue, however.
 

Boo Radley

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90% of the liberals you talk to :shrug:
And few republicans see them selves as idiots either. Is it a surprise that idiots on both side don't see themselves?

:coffeepap
 

Wiseone

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Ok then lets drop it, and get back to the actual topic.
 

OscarB63

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Is it a surprise that idiots on both side don't see themselves?

:coffeepap
that's the best part about being an idiot. the self-absorbed cluelessness
 

OscarB63

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So true. ;) Now let's hope we're not one. :lol:
well, there are plenty of "experts" running around here that will surely tell us if we are :thumbs:
 

The Prof

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CriticalThought

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For all those gunning the Democrats, I would like to point out that the House actually passed legislation repealing DADT. It was the Senate that shot it down with a 56 and 43 vote with 60 needed to win. That means even if every Democrat had voted for it, it would have still failed because the Republicans unanimously voted against it.
 
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