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Empower the Chinese people?

Rexedgar said:
Sorry about the paywall; here’s another article:

‘Distrust and verify’: Pompeo urges ‘every nation’ to join U.S. in confronting China - MarketWatch

It would have made more sense to keep our allies close, instead of kicking over the hornet’s nest. Now that we ask them to stand with us.........
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Oh, I was telling you what comes next. I mean, what are we going to do next? Cluck our tongues at them?

I don't know what he expects giving the CCP a stern talking to is going to do. As Trump amply demonstrated, trying to shove them around with trade war moves is cutting off our nose to spite their face. They care a whole lot less about what they put their people through (in contrast to normal American presidents, of course. Trump is his own thing).

There's not much we can do to force their hand but a cataclysmic disentangling of economies or war.
 
Rexedgar said:
Sorry about the paywall; here’s another article:

‘Distrust and verify’: Pompeo urges ‘every nation’ to join U.S. in confronting China - MarketWatch

It would have made more sense to keep our allies close, instead of kicking over the hornet’s nest. Now that we ask them to stand with us.........
Click to expand...

Well yeah, with Trump at the helm, I think we'll be facing considerable difficulty in taking long overdue multilateral action to isolate and contain an increasingly and unacceptably belligerent and ethically depraved China, but fortunately it won't be long until there's a change in management, which should allow us to move forward with a gradual albeit inexorable severance of the West's dangerous economic integration with this evil empire.
 
This does not seem like a good idea.

The idea that the Chinese people are laboring under the unpopular Communist Party and are eager for an overthrow is foolhardy; some elements of the Chinese populace are in fact *more* nationalist and aggressive than their government, to the point where anytime the South China Sea pops up in the news you can see hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens clamoring for their government to take an even more hardline stance, to send in ships and sink any foreign vessels that trespass in "Chinese waters".
 
Jredbaron96 said:
This does not seem like a good idea.

The idea that the Chinese people are laboring under the unpopular Communist Party and are eager for an overthrow is foolhardy; some elements of the Chinese populace are in fact *more* nationalist and aggressive than their government, to the point where anytime the South China Sea pops up in the news you can see hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens clamoring for their government to take an even more hardline stance, to send in ships and sink any foreign vessels that trespass in "Chinese waters".
Click to expand...

This is flailing at it’s best.........
 
Jredbaron96 said:
This does not seem like a good idea.

The idea that the Chinese people are laboring under the unpopular Communist Party and are eager for an overthrow is foolhardy; some elements of the Chinese populace are in fact *more* nationalist and aggressive than their government, to the point where anytime the South China Sea pops up in the news you can see hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens clamoring for their government to take an even more hardline stance, to send in ships and sink any foreign vessels that trespass in "Chinese waters".
Click to expand...

I agree that the notion the Chinese people are merely waiting to be liberated is utterly foolhardy (though I don't find this is Pompeo's conclusion or assertion, so much as he is seeking assistance where he can find it), but Pompeo's broader stance that China should be isolated via collective punitive action among the West is an excellent and long overdue one. Why should we continue to support, enrich and empower a bullying Orwellian nightmare of a nation that engages in ongoing genocide when we have alternatives?
 
Surrealistik said:
I agree that the notion the Chinese people are merely waiting to be liberated is utterly foolhardy (though I don't find this is Pompeo's conclusion or assertion, so much as he is seeking assistance where he can find it), but Pompeo's broader stance that China should be isolated via collective punitive action among the West is an excellent and long overdue one. Why should we continue to support, enrich and empower a bullying Orwellian nightmare of a nation that engages in ongoing genocide when we have alternatives?
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What are the alternatives?
 
Rexedgar said:
What are the alternatives?
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The West looks to China as the world's manufacturer/sweatshop/factory. There are plenty of other locales which fulfill the same need for low cost production, to say nothing of technological solutions like automation. Granted, some would need infrastructure investment to bring them up to speed, but it's well worth it to avoid ingratiating ourselves to the world's gravest long term threat to democracy and freedom, and helping them emerge as a rival super power.
 
Surrealistik said:
I agree that the notion the Chinese people are merely waiting to be liberated is utterly foolhardy (though I don't find this is Pompeo's conclusion or assertion, so much as he is seeking assistance where he can find it), but Pompeo's broader stance that China should be isolated via collective punitive action among the West is an excellent and long overdue one.
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Were it so easy.

China is an integral part of the world economy and holds considerable sway over much of the world. The idea that we could simply isolate it and cower it into submission via collective action is a tenuous one.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Were it so easy.

China is an integral part of the world economy and holds considerable sway over much of the world. The idea that we could simply isolate it and cower it into submission via collective action is a tenuous one.
Click to expand...

It's not a tenuous one, it's the only way forward really, and one about certain to succeed if all of China's major trade partners are on board: either they change their ways, or we substantively impede and limit their economic power and gravely threaten their emerging superpower status should they choose to continue to engage in genocide, systemic oppression, foreign interference, and their sprawling host of evils. We've tried the carrot for 50 odd years to no avail; it's now time to employ the stick.

Moreover, it's a process that necessarily must be undertaken over time and by degree, not something that would happen overnight, or is some magical switch to be thrown.
 
The EU's diplomatic service has reminded China of the need to respect human rights in Hong Kong.

Hypocritical perverts, you'd better pay attention to human rights in the Donbas. It's a little closer to Europe.
 
Surrealistik said:
The West looks to China as the world's manufacturer/sweatshop/factory. There are plenty of other locales which fulfill the same need for low cost production, to say nothing of technological solutions like automation. Granted, some would need infrastructure investment to bring them up to speed, but it's well worth it to avoid ingratiating ourselves to the world's gravest long term threat to democracy and freedom, and helping them emerge as a rival super power.
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Name some of these places that are ripe for exploitation, please.
 
“China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will move the world.”― Napoleon Bonaparte
 
All we have to do is wait. I suspect in a few more years China will buy most of the USA anyway. With the so-called leadership that we presently have at the moment, could be sooner.
 
A fresh joke from China: "in the US, you can change the party in power, but you can't change the policy. In China, you can't change the party in power, but you can change the policy»
 
zyzygy said:
Name some of these places that are ripe for exploitation, please.
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Which Asian Country Will Replace China as the ‘World’s Factory’? – The Diplomat

zyzygy said:
“China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will move the world.”― Napoleon Bonaparte
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The US ignores China as the threat it so clearly will become at its own peril. Better to act now while it can still be thwarted, minimized and contained, than wait until its strength is beyond challenging.
 
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