Employer Health Insurance is socialism.

[Moderate71]

If I am a single, healthy 18 year old male, my health insurance premiums should be far, far, far less than a 55 year old married guy with 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and has a kid with an expensive medical condition. He shouldn't pay 1.5 times as much as me or 2 times as much me. He should pay 20 times as much as me because he and his entire family are 20 times the health risk and cost I am. It's possible you should have to pay 100 times what I should pay if that is what the insurance company says.

Also, it is health INSURANCE, so pre-existing conditions matter. You can't total out your car and then get full coverage insurance.

We should make it illegal for employers to offer health insurance. Employers should give employees the money they are currently contributing to the combined contributions divided equally (factoring in part-time status). The employees get their own health insurance and can claim it as a tax deduction.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

"In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year. For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927."

Let's say a company where 50% of their employees are single forked out 1,631.83 per employee per month. They should have given each employee 1,631.83 a month extra and not be concerned with their health insurance in the first place. Also, we need to let people buy bare bones plans. I don't need gender re-assignment therapy. I don't a shrink. I don't need drug rehab.

Also, when you change jobs you don't need to change health insurance any more than you need to change car insurance. If you can't afford private health insurance, you get government health insurance.

 

[Beaudreaux]

You seem to not understand how insurance works, or what Socialism actually is, or how the free market employee-employer relationship works.

I wish that our schools would teach basic civics and political science, like used to be taught.

 

[Airyaman]

Don't have to read the OP...the thread title itself is false.

 

[Moderate71]

You seem to not understand how insurance works, or what Socialism actually is, or how the free market employee-employer relationship works.

I wish that our schools would teach basic civics and political science, like used to be taught.

If I don't want my employer's health insurance, can I keep my 1,600 a month and go get my own health insurance? No, I can't.

It is socializing the cost. Some people are being hurt by it.

Single person pays 103.42 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages (that's the sneak).

Family pays 474.08 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages.

Single person EFFECTIVELY pays 1,735.25 a month.

Family EFFECTIVELY pays 2,105.91 a month.

A healthy, single 18 year old pays 82% as much as a 55 year old guy with a wife and 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and a kid with permanent health problems.


My system:

The healthy, single 18 year old gets to keep the 1,631.83 a month and pays 300 a month in health insurance.

The 55 year old 300 pound family guy with 12 kids gets to keep his 1,631.83 a month and pays 7,000 a month in health insurance.

 

[Moderate71]

Anyone that wouldn't want my system is a free market hating communist.

 

[Captain America]

You seem to not understand how insurance works, or what Socialism actually is, or how the free market employee-employer relationship works.

I wish that our schools would teach basic civics and political science, like used to be taught.

Those courses got shoved aside for geography and history. We would have been better off if they kept them all.

I'm no expert on socialism but aren't our road systems socialism? Fire Departments? Police Departments? Libraries? Public schools?

If so, couldn't it be said that some of the best attributes of American society was brought about by socialism?

I think "ism" words scare people.

Civics class indeed.

 

[Moderate71]

Those courses got shoved aside for geography and history. We would have been better off if they kept them all.

I'm no expert on socialism but aren't our road systems socialism? Fire Departments? Police Departments? Libraries? Public schools?

If so, couldn't it be said that some of the best attributes of American society was brought about by socialism?

I think "ism" words scare people.

Civics class indeed.

On one hand you're arguing that Employer Health Insurance is in no way socialistic then immediately arguing about how great socialism is?

Our current system is to a large extent flattening off the costs of healthcare plain and simple. Your heart doesn't cry out for the single, healthy college guy who could be pocketing extra cash every month?

 

[UtahBill]

If I don't want my employer's health insurance, can I keep my 1,600 a month and go get my own health insurance? No, I can't.

It is socializing the cost. Some people are being hurt by it.

Single person pays 103.42 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages (that's the sneak).

Family pays 474.08 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages.

Single person EFFECTIVELY pays 1,735.25 a month.

Family EFFECTIVELY pays 2,105.91 a month.

A healthy, single 18 year old pays 82% as much as a 55 year old guy with a wife and 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and a kid with permanent health problems.


My system:

The healthy, single 18 year old gets to keep the 1,631.83 a month and pays 300 a month in health insurance.

The 55 year old 300 pound family guy with 12 kids gets to keep his 1,631.83 a month and pays 7,000 a month in health insurance.

Depends on the employer....I know that retired military people often get to keep the difference since they don't need the employers insurance.
BTW, medical insurance policies provided by employers are often owned by the employer.....

 

[Captain America]

On one hand you're arguing that Employer Health Insurance is in no way socialistic then immediately arguing about how great socialism is?

Our current system is to a large extent flattening off the costs of healthcare plain and simple. Your heart doesn't cry out for the single, healthy college guy who could be pocketing extra cash every month?

I think you may have confused me with another poster. I am not arguing that insurance is anything.

Whereas, I do feel your pain because as a young man, I was in those same shoes. Your POV has merit.

But all of us older people were young first. With any luck, you too will be an older person someday. You pay your dues now like all the older people have done.

Trust me, you point of view will change when you get older. Until then, the best I can say is to just suck it up.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I don't like employer-sponsored health insurance, but for a completely different reason: It's a scam. Here's why:

They sell it as a benefit that the employer can provide cheaper than the employees could obtain on their own, pre-tax and all that.

Why do the insurance companies like it? Because, in order to qualify for employer-sponsored group rate, you have to be an employee. That means you have a job, a job that you go to every day, all week long (part-time employees need not apply). And if you can go to work every day, just how much healthcare do you really need (statistically speaking)? So the insurance companies are happy to provide coverage for a pool of people who are quite healthy.

And here is the kicker: If you are severely injured or come down with a severe chronic disease that keeps you from working, the first thing that happens is you lose your job. And when you lose your job, you lose your insurance coverage when you need it most. Oh sure, there is COBRA, a provision that says you can have up to 18 months coverage from your previous employer's plan, provided you can pick up the entire premium (without having a job to pay for it, of course).

The insurance is in effect as long as you are healthy. As soon as you get sick, it is out of reach. What a great scam.

 

[tres borrachos]

If I don't want my employer's health insurance, can I keep my 1,600 a month and go get my own health insurance? No, I can't.

It is socializing the cost. Some people are being hurt by it.

Single person pays 103.42 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages (that's the sneak).

Family pays 474.08 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages.

Single person EFFECTIVELY pays 1,735.25 a month.

Family EFFECTIVELY pays 2,105.91 a month.

A healthy, single 18 year old pays 82% as much as a 55 year old guy with a wife and 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and a kid with permanent health problems.


My system:

The healthy, single 18 year old gets to keep the 1,631.83 a month and pays 300 a month in health insurance.

The 55 year old 300 pound family guy with 12 kids gets to keep his 1,631.83 a month and pays 7,000 a month in health insurance.

What on Earth are you babbling about? There is no law that says you have to sign up for your employer's health insurance offerings? Benefits are optional.

 

[Ikari]

If I am a single, healthy 18 year old male, my health insurance premiums should be far, far, far less than a 55 year old married guy with 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and has a kid with an expensive medical condition. He shouldn't pay 1.5 times as much as me or 2 times as much me. He should pay 20 times as much as me because he and his entire family are 20 times the health risk and cost I am. It's possible you should have to pay 100 times what I should pay if that is what the insurance company says.

Also, it is health INSURANCE, so pre-existing conditions matter. You can't total out your car and then get full coverage insurance.

We should make it illegal for employers to offer health insurance. Employers should give employees the money they are currently contributing to the combined contributions divided equally (factoring in part-time status). The employees get their own health insurance and can claim it as a tax deduction.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

"In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year. For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927."

Let's say a company where 50% of their employees are single forked out 1,631.83 per employee per month. They should have given each employee 1,631.83 a month extra and not be concerned with their health insurance in the first place. Also, we need to let people buy bare bones plans. I don't need gender re-assignment therapy. I don't a shrink. I don't need drug rehab.

Also, when you change jobs you don't need to change health insurance any more than you need to change car insurance. If you can't afford private health insurance, you get government health insurance.

Socialism revolves around the state usurpation of the means of production. Insurance doesn't do that. Insurance is about aggregating risk over a larger population

 

[Keridan]

Interestingly, fringe benefits such as employer healhcare came about from too much government control. During the wage freeze from the Stabilization act of 1942 and Roosevelt's EO, companies had to find another way to compete for workers. Their answer was to offer things like paid vacation and employer insurance. The ACA is kinda another way for the government to double down on that mistake. The horrific consequence is that it removed the direct supply and demand from consumer and provider. It made a mess of the healthcare system nationwide and eventually world wide.

However, the overreach was not technically socialism as means of production was not seized. Pushing it much farther crosses that line, however. Which is not to claim it's evil just because it's socialism, but it does cross into the category.

Providing basic infrastructure such as roads and fire departments and other things for the common welfare that do not generally produce income are on the line if you are being severe in your interpretation. However, they are basic needs and part of what government was established to provide. They are not wealth redistribution or guarantees of equal outcome, etc.

Anyway, socialism can't be provided by private employers. It's a governmental structure.

 

[OscarLevant]

If I am a single, healthy 18 year old male, my health insurance premiums should be far, far, far less than a 55 year old married guy with 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and has a kid with an expensive medical condition. He shouldn't pay 1.5 times as much as me or 2 times as much me. He should pay 20 times as much as me because he and his entire family are 20 times the health risk and cost I am. It's possible you should have to pay 100 times what I should pay if that is what the insurance company says.

Also, it is health INSURANCE, so pre-existing conditions matter. You can't total out your car and then get full coverage insurance.

We should make it illegal for employers to offer health insurance. Employers should give employees the money they are currently contributing to the combined contributions divided equally (factoring in part-time status). The employees get their own health insurance and can claim it as a tax deduction.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

"In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year. For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927."

Let's say a company where 50% of their employees are single forked out 1,631.83 per employee per month. They should have given each employee 1,631.83 a month extra and not be concerned with their health insurance in the first place. Also, we need to let people buy bare bones plans. I don't need gender re-assignment therapy. I don't a shrink. I don't need drug rehab.

Also, when you change jobs you don't need to change health insurance any more than you need to change car insurance. If you can't afford private health insurance, you get government health insurance.

Republicans make policy on how they wish people should be but Democrats make policy based on how people really are. The more Humane thing to do is charge everybody the same and that way everyone can afford it. But we're not quite there yet so socialism really isn't it existence currently

 

[OscarLevant]

Those courses got shoved aside for geography and history. We would have been better off if they kept them all.

I'm no expert on socialism but aren't our road systems socialism? Fire Departments? Police Departments? Libraries? Public schools?

If so, couldn't it be said that some of the best attributes of American society was brought about by socialism?

I think "ism" words scare people.

Civics class indeed.

Great Point all free markets need socialism on those items it does better and all socialism needs free markets for those areas that free markets do better

Capitalism for individual wants and socialism for communal needs

 

[CriticalThought]

If I am a single, healthy 18 year old male, my health insurance premiums should be far, far, far less than a 55 year old married guy with 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and has a kid with an expensive medical condition. He shouldn't pay 1.5 times as much as me or 2 times as much me. He should pay 20 times as much as me because he and his entire family are 20 times the health risk and cost I am. It's possible you should have to pay 100 times what I should pay if that is what the insurance company says.

Also, it is health INSURANCE, so pre-existing conditions matter. You can't total out your car and then get full coverage insurance.

We should make it illegal for employers to offer health insurance. Employers should give employees the money they are currently contributing to the combined contributions divided equally (factoring in part-time status). The employees get their own health insurance and can claim it as a tax deduction.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

"In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year. For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927."

Let's say a company where 50% of their employees are single forked out 1,631.83 per employee per month. They should have given each employee 1,631.83 a month extra and not be concerned with their health insurance in the first place. Also, we need to let people buy bare bones plans. I don't need gender re-assignment therapy. I don't a shrink. I don't need drug rehab.

Also, when you change jobs you don't need to change health insurance any more than you need to change car insurance. If you can't afford private health insurance, you get government health insurance.

Why don't we just make health insurance illegal? The whole thing is a scam that operates the same way as outlet malls.

 

[Moderate71]

What on Earth are you babbling about? There is no law that says you have to sign up for your employer's health insurance offerings? Benefits are optional.

If a company is contributing $1,600 per employee per month and I don't participate, do I get my $1,600 in my pocket instead? Also, why are employer health plans pre-tax and health insurance payments for private individuals not income tax deductible? It is tragic what is happening to the young and healthy in this country.

How about we start an Employer sponsored gas purchase program? The company deducts $100 from each employee's check a month and spends $100 a month for each employee to purchase gas. Each employee can use that gas to fill their car to and from work. Some guy who lives 1 mile away from work is paying $100 a month and some guy who lives 100 miles away from work is also paying $100 a month. Who's getting screwed over on that one?

 

[tres borrachos]

If a company is contributing $1,600 per employee per month and I don't participate, do I get my $1,600 in my pocket instead? Also, why are employer health plans pre-tax and health insurance payments for private individuals not income tax deductible? It is tragic what is happening to the young and healthy in this country.

How about we start an Employer sponsored gas purchase program? The company deducts $100 from each employee's check a month and spends $100 a month for each employee to purchase gas. Each employee can use that gas to fill their car to and from work. Some guy who lives 1 mile away from work is paying $100 a month and some guy who lives 100 miles away from work is also paying $100 a month. Who's getting screwed over on that one?

What are you babbling about? Your employer shares in the cost of the negotiated insurance. If you don't sign up for it, they don't pay for you. If you sign up for it, they pay for the agreed upon cost sharing.

 

[Bullseye]

If I am a single, healthy 18 year old male, my health insurance premiums should be far, far, far less than a 55 year old married guy with 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and has a kid with an expensive medical condition. He shouldn't pay 1.5 times as much as me or 2 times as much me. He should pay 20 times as much as me because he and his entire family are 20 times the health risk and cost I am. It's possible you should have to pay 100 times what I should pay if that is what the insurance company says.

Also, it is health INSURANCE, so pre-existing conditions matter. You can't total out your car and then get full coverage insurance.

We should make it illegal for employers to offer health insurance. Employers should give employees the money they are currently contributing to the combined contributions divided equally (factoring in part-time status). The employees get their own health insurance and can claim it as a tax deduction.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

"In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year. For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927."

Let's say a company where 50% of their employees are single forked out 1,631.83 per employee per month. They should have given each employee 1,631.83 a month extra and not be concerned with their health insurance in the first place. Also, we need to let people buy bare bones plans. I don't need gender re-assignment therapy. I don't a shrink. I don't need drug rehab.

Also, when you change jobs you don't need to change health insurance any more than you need to change car insurance. If you can't afford private health insurance, you get government health insurance.

Uh, just so we're clear - employer provided health insurance are group policies; I have never had to provide any health data on me, my wife or my kids.

 

[Mr Person]

No, it is not "socialism".

 

[Juggernaut74]

If a company is contributing $1,600 per employee per month and I don't participate, do I get my $1,600 in my pocket instead?

If you negotiate that as a term of your employment you do

Also, why are employer health plans pre-tax and health insurance payments for private individuals not income tax deductible?

They are. But with the AGI limitation on Medical expenses and the higher standard deduction you may not get much if any benefit. Nevertheless, out of pocket health insurance premiums ARE deductible.

It is tragic what is happening to the young and healthy in this country.

That’s the very nature of insurance. You could say the same of the careful and attentive drivers in the country.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Moderate71 seems to think that if someone does NOT sign up for employer health insurance, that the employer is still contributing the matching funds in their name.

He doesn't understand how insurance even works, either.

 

[Moderate71]

Moderate71 seems to think that if someone does NOT sign up for employer health insurance, that the employer is still contributing the matching funds in their name.

He doesn't understand how insurance even works, either.

Stop being obtuse. If I participate, they contribute $1,600 on my behalf. If I don't participate, they should contribute the $1,600 to me so I can get my own health insurance. Also, private individuals should get to deduct their health insurance payments on their taxes if employer health plans can be pre-tax.

Level the playing field.

If I'm young, healthy, and single and you're not, that is YOUR problem, not mine. If your health insurance would be $7,000 a month in the private market, too bad.

 

[Moderate71]

If you negotiate that as a term of your employment you do



They are. But with the AGI limitation on Medical expenses and the higher standard deduction you may not get much if any benefit. Nevertheless, out of pocket health insurance premiums ARE deductible.



That’s the very nature of insurance. You could say the same of the careful and attentive drivers in the country.

How about everyone on your block gets a group car insurance plan with full coverage where you all pay evenly? Your neighbor owns an extremely rare collectible sports car valued at over a million dollars and he's had 17 DWIs and 50 accidents. I bet you'd be all for it.

We don't do it like that because it is wrong. I get my car insurance and you get yours.

 

[lwf]

If I don't want my employer's health insurance, can I keep my 1,600 a month and go get my own health insurance? No, I can't.

It is socializing the cost. Some people are being hurt by it.

Single person pays 103.42 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages (that's the sneak).

Family pays 474.08 a month, except also pays 1,631.83 a month in lost wages.

Single person EFFECTIVELY pays 1,735.25 a month.

Family EFFECTIVELY pays 2,105.91 a month.

A healthy, single 18 year old pays 82% as much as a 55 year old guy with a wife and 12 kids who is 100 pounds overweight and has had 3 heart attacks and a kid with permanent health problems.


My system:

The healthy, single 18 year old gets to keep the 1,631.83 a month and pays 300 a month in health insurance.

The 55 year old 300 pound family guy with 12 kids gets to keep his 1,631.83 a month and pays 7,000 a month in health insurance.

How would the 55 year old pay for 7,000 a month health insurance on a wage of 1,631.80 a month?