Elephants and Mirrors (1 Viewer)

[ngdawg]

WASHINGTON -- If you're Happy and you know it, pat your head.

That, in a peanut shell, is how a 34-year-old female Asian elephant in the Bronx Zoo showed researchers that pachyderms can recognize themselves in a mirror -- complex behavior observed in only a few other species.
The test results suggest elephants -- or at least Happy -- are self-aware. The ability to distinguish oneself from others had been shown only in humans, chimpanzees and, to a limited extent, dolphins.

That self-recognition may underlie the social complexity seen in elephants, and could be linked to the empathy and altruism that the big-brained animals have been known to display, said researcher Diana Reiss, of the Wildlife Conservation Society, which manages the Bronx Zoo.

In a 2005 experiment, Happy faced her reflection in an 8-by-8-foot mirror and repeatedly used her trunk to touch an "X" painted above her eye. The elephant could not have seen the mark except in her reflection. Furthermore, Happy ignored a similar mark, made on the opposite side of her head in paint of an identical smell and texture, that was invisible unless seen under black light.

"It seems to verify for us she definitely recognized herself in the mirror," said Joshua Plotnik, one of the researchers behind the study. Details appear this week on the Web site of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

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I love stories like this! Humans have this collective attitude that they are the only ones who exhibit self-awareness and therefore are rightfully superior to all other beings. In the past, studies were done on dolphins, who demonstrated a level of self-awareness and, of course, other primates who have done so(Dolphins and primates have also demonstrated the ability to use abstract thought to think independently and communicate on a certain level with humans based on that abstract. Studies are being done with parrots for the same thing). Of course, this doesn't stop the egoism of humans and, since we have the brains to invent and use tools, it may be rightfully so. On the other hand, it's a thought that perhaps so do these mammals, they just don't need to. Still, it knocks us down a peg or two to know that there are more commonalities we share with the 'lesser' mammals.

 

[faithful_servant]

Complete Article
I love stories like this! Humans have this collective attitude that they are the only ones who exhibit self-awareness and therefore are rightfully superior to all other beings. In the past, studies were done on dolphins, who demonstrated a level of self-awareness and, of course, other primates who have done so(Dolphins and primates have also demonstrated the ability to use abstract thought to think independently and communicate on a certain level with humans based on that abstract. Studies are being done with parrots for the same thing). Of course, this doesn't stop the egoism of humans and, since we have the brains to invent and use tools, it may be rightfully so. On the other hand, it's a thought that perhaps so do these mammals, they just don't need to. Still, it knocks us down a peg or two to know that there are more commonalities we share with the 'lesser' mammals.

Nice. Take an article about an elephant and use it to express your self-hate at being a Homo sapien.

 

[ngdawg]

Nice. Take an article about an elephant and use it to express your self-hate at being a Homo sapien.

WTF? Do you often arrive at totally weird conclusions or is this something new for you to try?
I happen to find it fascinating that an entirely different species once again proves to have self awareness and that research is finding others to be capable of abstract thought, two characteristics that were once thought to be exclusively human. Get a grip...:roll:

 

[teacher]

ngdawg, the square peg and the round hole and a WHOLE bunch of confusion.

If they were so smart they'd be wearing bulletproof vests and not swallowing shiney hooks.

Now bake them troops some cookies dawg.

 

[Dezaad]

Nice. Take an article about an elephant and use it to express your self-hate at being a Homo sapien.

Are you sure that it isn't that you just feel threatened somehow when people talk about other self aware species?

There was another article I read a while back where Elephants had intentionally killed a human. The interesting thing though was that the Elephants buried him (after their fashion), and did their "stand around the grave and 'mourn' him routine" that they do when they mourn other Elephants. Even more interesting was that the article pointed out that they have never been observed to 'honor' any other species with their burial ritual in this way. Fascinating. I want to know them.

I do agree though that humans have a tremendous odd tendency toward self-hatred. The Muslim and Christian religions are certainly excercises in self-loathing. A mild reference to human arrogance is nothing compared to the way believers of those systems treat humankind.

 

[Rhapsody1447]

Show me a study done by an elephant on human self-awareness. Hah

 

[Dezaad]

Show me a study done by an elephant on human self-awareness. Hah

He he.
:lol:

They can't type with those unwieldy paws or whatever they're called. Otherwise, I'm sure they would! :mrgreen:

 

[ngdawg]

Are you sure that it isn't that you just feel threatened somehow when people talk about other self aware species?

There was another article I read a while back where Elephants had intentionally killed a human. The interesting thing though was that the Elephants buried him (after their fashion), and did their "stand around the grave and 'mourn' him routine" that they do when they mourn other Elephants. Even more interesting was that the article pointed out that they have never been observed to 'honor' any other species with their burial ritual in this way. Fascinating. I want to know them.

I do agree though that humans have a tremendous odd tendency toward self-hatred. The Muslim and Christian religions are certainly excercises in self-loathing. A mild reference to human arrogance is nothing compared to the way believers of those systems treat humankind.

I don't see them as self-loathing, unless you call extreme arrogance just a ploy to disguise self-loathing...
I do think, however, that 'dumb animals' is more and more proving to be a misnomer is several instances and that it's really humans who are sometimes the truly dumb ones, just by virtue of this arrogance. "well, we don't know what they're thinking, so they must be dumb because they won't tell us"...:roll: We treat the handicapped the same way.

 

[teacher]

Show me a study done by an elephant on human self-awareness. Hah

Classic.
I see we think alike in this.

 

[Moot]

.... Studies are being done with parrots for the same thing).

I have a parrot and she still thinks her reflection in the mirror is another parrot. She'll even lunge at herself or show off depending on her mood.

My sister lives on a farm and they had a turkey that fell in love with its own reflection in the shiny bumper of a car and do the mating ritual. It was hysterical.

Birds in general are pretty smart though and I would never assume them to be dumb or unaware. They just have a different kind of an awareness and different priorities, thats all.

Here's a funny true story about Mike the headless chicken....
http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org/story.html