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Electoral College = No Popular Vote

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I realize is a republic and not a direct democracy, but shouldnt the people have DIRECT say in who the president is??? Are the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine who the president is incase the popular vote is the "wrong decision?" There have been cases where the electoral college voted against the popular vote such as in the 2000 election. We need to do away with it. It's an insult really.
 
I realize is a republic and not a direct democracy, but shouldnt the people have DIRECT say in who the president is??? Are the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine who the president is incase the popular vote is the "wrong decision?" There have been cases where the electoral college voted against the popular vote such as in the 2000 election. We need to do away with it. It's an insult really.

Unfortunately, the Constitution was written by the economic elite and the Constitution contains things like you mentioned that give testimony to that. The Constitution was meant to serve the economic/political elite. These people hated democracy unless it went their way. In a sense, the US has been a democratic hypocrite since day one.
 
I don't see it as a failure but rather as a genius consideration. Standard arguments for the electoral college are my embrace, so I wouldn't elaborate.
Furthermore, to me, part of the genius of a number of the men considered Founding Fathers was this debate regarding democracy or republics. I fully embrace "elitist" notions, because things can get out of hand with mass democracy just as they can with an entirely republican governmental structure. While true that with greater education and political embrace of the population helped give leverage for measures of mass democracy in American political life, I still feel that siding with the masses on every whim is ruinous.
 
:doh It's a republic and a democracy, the two are not mutually exclusive terms.
 
Unfortunately, the Constitution was written by the economic elite and the Constitution contains things like you mentioned that give testimony to that. The Constitution was meant to serve the economic/political elite. These people hated democracy unless it went their way. In a sense, the US has been a democratic hypocrite since day one.


which is why the left hates the constitution as it was written

no one who wrote the constitution wanted a democracy and the constitution guards against that malignancy
 
which is why the left hates the constitution as it was written

no one who wrote the constitution wanted a democracy and the constitution guards against that malignancy

I certainly don't hate the constitution as written.... and I don't think you will find too many from the left that advocate the repeal of all of these amendments that members of the right keep bringing up....

Moreover, I think the electoral college is one of the elements of real genius within the constitution.
 
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I certainly don't hate the constitution as written.... and I don't think you will find too many from the left that advocate the repeal of all of these amendments that members of the right keep bringing up....

yeah libs just pretend some don't exist (tenth amendment) or say stuff that no one who had any connection to the USSC would agree with (second amendment, commerce clause, general welfare etc)
 
which is why the left hates the constitution as it was written

no one who wrote the constitution wanted a democracy and the constitution guards against that malignancy

Psst. A republic is a form of democracy. It's also known as a representative democracy.
 
Elitism is a bad thing, the masses are not so ignorant and weak-minded that they can't even make the decision for their own country on who will be president. It infuriates and insults me that a bunch of old white men have to get together and make the decision for us. Why the hell should I vote if I know it might not mean anything? I say we protest this corrupt system and not vote at all. Once they see the numbers drop significantly, maybe the government will rethink this pompous and elitist decision.
 
I realize is a republic and not a direct democracy, but shouldnt the people have DIRECT say in who the president is???

No. They've demonstrated repeatedly how ignorant they can be. The electoral college exists as the final barrier between the safety of the republic and the idiots who can vote. The EC saved us from Al Gore, didn't it? Bush wasn't any great shakes, but he didn't live on the other side of the ozone layer.

Are the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine who the president is incase the popular vote is the "wrong decision?"

You better believe it. Most Americans attended a publicly funded high school, for Pete's sake. That means they for the most part can't identify the origin of the phrases "We the People", "In the Course of Human Events", and "Give me liberty or give me death". They probably can't find Isreal on a map, identify the capital of their home state, define the word "bicameral" (many will search Internet porn for that one), or define what is meant by a "republican government".

They're flimsy on economics and many believe balancing a checkbook will overload their little coke scales. Many can only say "tax the rich", and can't explain the Laffer Curve.

A majority won't be able to name the Allies and the Axis in WWII or cite the basis of the Cold War. The reasons for the War of 1812 will as obscure to many of them as the year it started. They'll believe the US stole California from Mexico.

They look upon a job as a right, not a function.

They've been trained by the public schools to be obedient to secular authority, to understand that the 1960's was an era of protest but that they should not question the government.

They're friggin' ignorant doorstops that no sane republic would allow in a polling booth.

You want to eliinate the Electoral College?

Shouldn't you eliminate the ignorance of the electorate first?
 
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Elitism is a bad thing, the masses are not so ignorant and weak-minded that they can't even make the decision for their own country on who will be president. It infuriates and insults me that a bunch of old white men have to get together and make the decision for us. Why the hell should I vote if I know it might not mean anything? I say we protest this corrupt system and not vote at all. Once they see the numbers drop significantly, maybe the government will rethink this pompous and elitist decision.

You're right.

Everything would have been soooo much better if a bunch of old black men had written the Constituiton, right? Besides, everyone knows that the Electoral College flatly refuses to admit any blacks, latinos, asians, indians, or eskimos, and hell, women just ain't allowed in the EC, they can't afford the tuition, anyway.
 
Psst. A republic is a form of democracy. It's also known as a representative democracy.

A "republic" is a form of government in which three bodies of the populace are represented, the peon, the wealthy, and the aristocracy.

In the US, the House represents the peons, and until the 17th Amendment the wealthy were correctly represented by the Senate. The aristocracy was traditionally the king, though in the Roman republic the executive became an elected Counsel, and in the US architecture the President is the executive elected by the EC.

The US ceased to be a republic with the passage of the 17th Amendment. The direct election of Senators turned the Senate into a second "house of commons", and thus the balance the former republic had was lost as both houses of congress sought to curry the favor of the masses.

Bread and circuses was the natural and expected product from that ill considered change.
 
Are the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine who the president is incase the popular vote is the "wrong decision?"

I find it amazing that the left usually wants to get rid of the Electoral College (which I don't like either BTW) because it assumes "the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine" the president (notice they don't do any other elected officials?) However, it's always the left who find "the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine" how to handle their finances, give charitably, what to eat and how to take care of their health and health needs. Of course then on the other hand the religious right (versus the general right) believe "the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine" how to live morally.
 
I realize is a republic and not a direct democracy, but shouldnt the people have DIRECT say in who the president is??? Are the masses really so incompetent that they need a small group of people to determine who the president is incase the popular vote is the "wrong decision?" There have been cases where the electoral college voted against the popular vote such as in the 2000 election. We need to do away with it. It's an insult really.

I favor the Electoral College. However, I think it should be reformed.

I think that instead of all of the electoral votes of a state going to the candidate to whoever gets the most popular votes, we should adopt the Congressional District Method.

According to this method, the electoral vote of a Congressional District will go to whichever candidate gets the most votes within that district. The two electoral votes each state gets for their Senators is given to whichever candidate gets the most votes within that state.

I think this would be a good balance between the electoral college and popular election. I'm not against popular elections because of a fear of the masses or as part of an idealization of the Constitution. Rather, I favor the electoral college for bureaucratic reasons - it's easier to handle contested elections in certain states concerning electoral votes than it is to count all the popular votes nationwide.
 
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