Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

[tanj]

Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

A 2020 election integrity probe in Wisconsin reported findings Tuesday that a nonprofit group funded by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg committed election bribery when it targeted $8.8 million in get-out-the-vote funds to five heavily Democratic jurisdictions.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have attached the report that the story is referring to.

this is what happens when there are real investigations into serious accusations and issues aren't dismissed off hand as conspiracy...

an impressive list of keywords here: bribery, impermissible, partisan, obstruction, collusion, ethics violation, unlawful, violated, evasion,
and, last but not least, the phrase "Non-citizens voted unimpeded"

from the table of contents:
"Chapter 1: The Center for Tech and Civic Life’s $8,800,000 Zuckerberg Plan Grant with
the Cities of Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha and Green Bay (the Zuckerberg 5
Cities) Facially Violates Wisconsin Law Prohibiting Election Bribery.

Chapter 2: The Motive for These Grants Was Impermissible and Partisan Get Out the
Vote Efforts (GOTV).

Chapter 3: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside
Corporate Collusion.

Chapter 4: This Collusion and Entanglement Also Caused a Host of Questionable Actions
by the Zuckerberg Five.

Chapter 5: Corporate Legal Defense to Facilitate Obstruction Might Violate the
Wisconsin Ethics Code.

Chapter 6: Wisconsin Election Officials’ Widespread Use of Absentee Ballot Drop
Boxes Facially Violated Wisconsin Law.

Chapter 7: The Wisconsin Elections Commission (WEC) Unlawfully Directed Clerks to
Violate Rules Protecting Nursing Home Residents, Resulting in a 100% Voting Rate in
Many Nursing Homes in 2020, Including Many Ineligible Voters.

Chapter 8: WEC Also Unlawfully Encouraged Evasion of Ballot Security Measures
Related to “Indefinitely Confined” Voters at the Behest of Outside Corporations.

Chapter 9: Wards Under Guardianship Orders (and Legally Prohibited from Voting)
Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They Are Not Recorded in the
WisVote Voter Database, Even Though the Circuit Courts Have This Information.
3


Chapter 10: Non-citizens Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They
Are Not Recorded in the WisVote Voter Database, Even Though Wisconsin Law
Requires Citizenship to Vote.

Chapter 11: Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Green Bay Election Officials
May Have Violated the Federal and Wisconsin Equal Protection Clauses by Not Treating
All Voters Equal in the Same Election."

 

[madman]

still banging this drum?

 

[mrjurrs]

Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

A 2020 election integrity probe in Wisconsin reported findings Tuesday that a nonprofit group funded by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg committed election bribery when it targeted $8.8 million in get-out-the-vote funds to five heavily Democratic jurisdictions.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have attached the report that the story is referring to.

this is what happens when there are real investigations into serious accusations and issues aren't dismissed off hand as conspiracy...

an impressive list of keywords here: bribery, impermissible, partisan, obstruction, collusion, ethics violation, unlawful, violated, evasion,
and, last but not least, the phrase "Non-citizens voted unimpeded"

from the table of contents:
"Chapter 1: The Center for Tech and Civic Life’s $8,800,000 Zuckerberg Plan Grant with
the Cities of Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha and Green Bay (the Zuckerberg 5
Cities) Facially Violates Wisconsin Law Prohibiting Election Bribery.

Chapter 2: The Motive for These Grants Was Impermissible and Partisan Get Out the
Vote Efforts (GOTV).

Chapter 3: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside
Corporate Collusion.

Chapter 4: This Collusion and Entanglement Also Caused a Host of Questionable Actions
by the Zuckerberg Five.

Chapter 5: Corporate Legal Defense to Facilitate Obstruction Might Violate the
Wisconsin Ethics Code.

Chapter 6: Wisconsin Election Officials’ Widespread Use of Absentee Ballot Drop
Boxes Facially Violated Wisconsin Law.

Chapter 7: The Wisconsin Elections Commission (WEC) Unlawfully Directed Clerks to
Violate Rules Protecting Nursing Home Residents, Resulting in a 100% Voting Rate in
Many Nursing Homes in 2020, Including Many Ineligible Voters.

Chapter 8: WEC Also Unlawfully Encouraged Evasion of Ballot Security Measures
Related to “Indefinitely Confined” Voters at the Behest of Outside Corporations.

Chapter 9: Wards Under Guardianship Orders (and Legally Prohibited from Voting)
Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They Are Not Recorded in the
WisVote Voter Database, Even Though the Circuit Courts Have This Information.
3


Chapter 10: Non-citizens Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They
Are Not Recorded in the WisVote Voter Database, Even Though Wisconsin Law
Requires Citizenship to Vote.

Chapter 11: Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Green Bay Election Officials
May Have Violated the Federal and Wisconsin Equal Protection Clauses by Not Treating
All Voters Equal in the Same Election."

Not nearly as clear cut as you represent. This is my favorite line from below...
"The emails from conspiracy theorist Lindell were sent to Michael Gableman, the lawyer running the investigation, the same month that Gableman attended Lindell’s “cyber symposium” in South Dakota."

ENTITY: WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL​

RECORDS REQUEST TO WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL SEEKING ADDITIONAL WORK PRODUCTS FROM ELECTIONS INVESTIGATION
February 1, 2022
Records request to the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel seeking additional records produced during the Legislature's investigation of the November 2020 election.

RECORDS REQUEST TO WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL SEEKING ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATIONS REGARDING ELECTIONS INVESTIGATION
February 1, 2022
Records request to the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel seeking additional communications regarding the Legislature's investigation of the November 2020 election.

WISCONSIN JUDGE ORDERS GABLEMAN TO PROVIDE COURT WITH ELECTION INVESTIGATION RECORDS WITHIN 10 DAYS
January 21, 2022
On Friday, a Wisconsin judge ordered the attorney running Wisconsin’s partisan investigation of the 2020 election to turn over to the court sealed copies of records related to the inquiry.

DOCUMENTS FROM WISCONSIN ELECTION INVESTIGATION REVEAL CONTACT WITH MIKE LINDELL, OTHER PARTISAN ACTIVISTS
December 6, 2021
The emails from conspiracy theorist Lindell were sent to Michael Gableman, the lawyer running the investigation, the same month that Gableman attended Lindell’s “cyber symposium” in South Dakota.

https://www.americanoversight.org/entity/wisconsin-office-of-special-counsel

 

[Torus34]

It should be noted that while the attempt to sway elections by the passage of voting laws in a number of states are aimed at controlling the individual vote cast by the individual voter, situations such as that suggested in the OP are due to partisan/party interference, not by individual voters.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

 

[Liberal7360]

Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

A 2020 election integrity probe in Wisconsin reported findings Tuesday that a nonprofit group funded by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg committed election bribery when it targeted $8.8 million in get-out-the-vote funds to five heavily Democratic jurisdictions.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have attached the report that the story is referring to.

this is what happens when there are real investigations into serious accusations and issues aren't dismissed off hand as conspiracy...

an impressive list of keywords here: bribery, impermissible, partisan, obstruction, collusion, ethics violation, unlawful, violated, evasion,
and, last but not least, the phrase "Non-citizens voted unimpeded"

from the table of contents:
"Chapter 1: The Center for Tech and Civic Life’s $8,800,000 Zuckerberg Plan Grant with
the Cities of Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha and Green Bay (the Zuckerberg 5
Cities) Facially Violates Wisconsin Law Prohibiting Election Bribery.

Chapter 2: The Motive for These Grants Was Impermissible and Partisan Get Out the
Vote Efforts (GOTV).

Chapter 3: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside
Corporate Collusion.

Chapter 4: This Collusion and Entanglement Also Caused a Host of Questionable Actions
by the Zuckerberg Five.

Chapter 5: Corporate Legal Defense to Facilitate Obstruction Might Violate the
Wisconsin Ethics Code.

Chapter 6: Wisconsin Election Officials’ Widespread Use of Absentee Ballot Drop
Boxes Facially Violated Wisconsin Law.

Chapter 7: The Wisconsin Elections Commission (WEC) Unlawfully Directed Clerks to
Violate Rules Protecting Nursing Home Residents, Resulting in a 100% Voting Rate in
Many Nursing Homes in 2020, Including Many Ineligible Voters.

Chapter 8: WEC Also Unlawfully Encouraged Evasion of Ballot Security Measures
Related to “Indefinitely Confined” Voters at the Behest of Outside Corporations.

Chapter 9: Wards Under Guardianship Orders (and Legally Prohibited from Voting)
Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They Are Not Recorded in the
WisVote Voter Database, Even Though the Circuit Courts Have This Information.
3


Chapter 10: Non-citizens Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They
Are Not Recorded in the WisVote Voter Database, Even Though Wisconsin Law
Requires Citizenship to Vote.

Chapter 11: Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Green Bay Election Officials
May Have Violated the Federal and Wisconsin Equal Protection Clauses by Not Treating
All Voters Equal in the Same Election."

Your problem is shown in the last sentence of the third paragraph of your article from the right wing washington times.

Here it is for you.

Testifying before the Wisconsin legislature Tuesday about the report, OSC lead investigator Michael Gableman told lawmakers they should “take a very hard look” at decertifying the results that showed President Biden the winner in Wisconsin, although Republicans in Madison have repeatedly rejected revisiting the results.

I read the rest of the article. It doesn't say how anyone was bribed. It doesn't say how it's illegal for a private company to fund a get out the vote project. That company can spend it's money anyway it wants with in our laws. You might want to check out the conservative Supreme Court ruling Citizens United.

The 2020 election is over.

trump lost.

Get over it.

 

[Peacenik]

The 2020 election is over. It has already been certified. Long time ago.

 

[Schism]

The 2020 election is over. It has already been certified. Long time ago.

So was the 2016 election, but Democrats are still trying to prove it was a result of Trump-Russia Collusion.

This article is from today - It’s time to confront the Trump-Putin network

 

[j brown's body]

So was the 2016 election, but Democrats are still trying to prove it was a result of Trump-Russia Collusion.

This article is from today - It’s time to confront the Trump-Putin network

We know Putin helped Trump. Its always interesting to learn more about how it happened. Don't think anyone is advocating overturning it.

 

[WIGDViking]

Green Bay, Kenosha and Racine are all very right leaning..:

 

[Schism]

We know Putin helped Trump.

Fake news.

Its always interesting to learn more about how it happened.

But not what Zuckerberg or MSM did.

Don't think anyone is advocating overturning it.

LOL! That's a bull turd right there. They screamed "IMPEACH!" the day after the election.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

A 2020 election integrity probe in Wisconsin reported findings Tuesday that a nonprofit group funded by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg committed election bribery when it targeted $8.8 million in get-out-the-vote funds to five heavily Democratic jurisdictions.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have attached the report that the story is referring to.

this is what happens when there are real investigations into serious accusations and issues aren't dismissed off hand as conspiracy...

an impressive list of keywords here: bribery, impermissible, partisan, obstruction, collusion, ethics violation, unlawful, violated, evasion,
and, last but not least, the phrase "Non-citizens voted unimpeded"

from the table of contents:
"Chapter 1: The Center for Tech and Civic Life’s $8,800,000 Zuckerberg Plan Grant with
the Cities of Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha and Green Bay (the Zuckerberg 5
Cities) Facially Violates Wisconsin Law Prohibiting Election Bribery.

Chapter 2: The Motive for These Grants Was Impermissible and Partisan Get Out the
Vote Efforts (GOTV).

Chapter 3: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside
Corporate Collusion.

Chapter 4: This Collusion and Entanglement Also Caused a Host of Questionable Actions
by the Zuckerberg Five.

Chapter 5: Corporate Legal Defense to Facilitate Obstruction Might Violate the
Wisconsin Ethics Code.

Chapter 6: Wisconsin Election Officials’ Widespread Use of Absentee Ballot Drop
Boxes Facially Violated Wisconsin Law.

Chapter 7: The Wisconsin Elections Commission (WEC) Unlawfully Directed Clerks to
Violate Rules Protecting Nursing Home Residents, Resulting in a 100% Voting Rate in
Many Nursing Homes in 2020, Including Many Ineligible Voters.

Chapter 8: WEC Also Unlawfully Encouraged Evasion of Ballot Security Measures
Related to “Indefinitely Confined” Voters at the Behest of Outside Corporations.

Chapter 9: Wards Under Guardianship Orders (and Legally Prohibited from Voting)
Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They Are Not Recorded in the
WisVote Voter Database, Even Though the Circuit Courts Have This Information.
3


Chapter 10: Non-citizens Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They
Are Not Recorded in the WisVote Voter Database, Even Though Wisconsin Law
Requires Citizenship to Vote.

Chapter 11: Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Green Bay Election Officials
May Have Violated the Federal and Wisconsin Equal Protection Clauses by Not Treating
All Voters Equal in the Same Election."

JUst another "Fraudit".

 

[Peacenik]

So was the 2016 election, but Democrats are still trying to prove it was a result of Trump-Russia Collusion.

This article is from today - It’s time to confront the Trump-Putin network

That is whataboutism. I am not interested in he said she said about 2016. I place little value on The Guardian trying to stir up emotions and sell advertising by using a cheap shot approach to get attention. That's not news. That's just tabloid sensationalism.

This discussion is about the 2020 election. The 2020 election was not stolen. It was the most secure election in our history. Objections were heard, evidence was considered. Nothing changed the outcome. The election was properly certified. It is over. President Biden is our rightful president.

We either accept it or go into some weird fantasy world where time is frozen around this one event from our past. I'd rather deal with the current situation. Past elections are water under the bridge. Gone by, gone away. More coming down the stream.

 

[bubbabgone]

Election report finds Facebook mogul’s ‘Zuck Bucks’ broke law, swayed election outcome in Wisconsin

A 2020 election integrity probe in Wisconsin reported findings Tuesday that a nonprofit group funded by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg committed election bribery when it targeted $8.8 million in get-out-the-vote funds to five heavily Democratic jurisdictions.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have attached the report that the story is referring to.

this is what happens when there are real investigations into serious accusations and issues aren't dismissed off hand as conspiracy...

an impressive list of keywords here: bribery, impermissible, partisan, obstruction, collusion, ethics violation, unlawful, violated, evasion,
and, last but not least, the phrase "Non-citizens voted unimpeded"

from the table of contents:
"Chapter 1: The Center for Tech and Civic Life’s $8,800,000 Zuckerberg Plan Grant with
the Cities of Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha and Green Bay (the Zuckerberg 5
Cities) Facially Violates Wisconsin Law Prohibiting Election Bribery.

Chapter 2: The Motive for These Grants Was Impermissible and Partisan Get Out the
Vote Efforts (GOTV).

Chapter 3: Government Oversight Has Been Obstructed by Governmental and Outside
Corporate Collusion.

Chapter 4: This Collusion and Entanglement Also Caused a Host of Questionable Actions
by the Zuckerberg Five.

Chapter 5: Corporate Legal Defense to Facilitate Obstruction Might Violate the
Wisconsin Ethics Code.

Chapter 6: Wisconsin Election Officials’ Widespread Use of Absentee Ballot Drop
Boxes Facially Violated Wisconsin Law.

Chapter 7: The Wisconsin Elections Commission (WEC) Unlawfully Directed Clerks to
Violate Rules Protecting Nursing Home Residents, Resulting in a 100% Voting Rate in
Many Nursing Homes in 2020, Including Many Ineligible Voters.

Chapter 8: WEC Also Unlawfully Encouraged Evasion of Ballot Security Measures
Related to “Indefinitely Confined” Voters at the Behest of Outside Corporations.

Chapter 9: Wards Under Guardianship Orders (and Legally Prohibited from Voting)
Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They Are Not Recorded in the
WisVote Voter Database, Even Though the Circuit Courts Have This Information.
3


Chapter 10: Non-citizens Voted Unimpeded by Wisconsin’s Election Officials as They
Are Not Recorded in the WisVote Voter Database, Even Though Wisconsin Law
Requires Citizenship to Vote.

Chapter 11: Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Green Bay Election Officials
May Have Violated the Federal and Wisconsin Equal Protection Clauses by Not Treating
All Voters Equal in the Same Election."

Yup. Told ya back in mid January on https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...election-claims.448854/page-7#post-1075261262

I'll try this one more time but if anyone really thinks "they are doing it for the voters and for democracy’s sake" then they are beyond reach unless they open their minds and read about what happened in the last election in Wisconsin, PA, and GA. The kind of fraud I mentioned doesn't lend itself to being uncovered through recounts.
Start here to hopefully get your attention and maybe inspire more research but I'm not expecting any results ... https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/zuckerberg-election-spending-was-orchestrated-to-influence-2020-vote/ and
https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/how-mark-zuckerberg-helped-dems-sway-the-2020-election/
And if you read the Post pieces, keep in mind that while the Zuck Bucks were offered to all, they were disproportionally distributed to Ds. Something like 4 to 1, with "getting the right people into the right places holding the right positions to make the most opportune decisions. " a priority using private D activist organizations for assistance and personnel.

 

[tanj]

Not nearly as clear cut as you represent. This is my favorite line from below...
"The emails from conspiracy theorist Lindell were sent to Michael Gableman, the lawyer running the investigation, the same month that Gableman attended Lindell’s “cyber symposium” in South Dakota."

ENTITY: WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL​

RECORDS REQUEST TO WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL SEEKING ADDITIONAL WORK PRODUCTS FROM ELECTIONS INVESTIGATION
February 1, 2022
Records request to the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel seeking additional records produced during the Legislature's investigation of the November 2020 election.

RECORDS REQUEST TO WISCONSIN OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL SEEKING ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATIONS REGARDING ELECTIONS INVESTIGATION
February 1, 2022
Records request to the Wisconsin Office of Special Counsel seeking additional communications regarding the Legislature's investigation of the November 2020 election.

WISCONSIN JUDGE ORDERS GABLEMAN TO PROVIDE COURT WITH ELECTION INVESTIGATION RECORDS WITHIN 10 DAYS
January 21, 2022
On Friday, a Wisconsin judge ordered the attorney running Wisconsin’s partisan investigation of the 2020 election to turn over to the court sealed copies of records related to the inquiry.

DOCUMENTS FROM WISCONSIN ELECTION INVESTIGATION REVEAL CONTACT WITH MIKE LINDELL, OTHER PARTISAN ACTIVISTS
December 6, 2021
The emails from conspiracy theorist Lindell were sent to Michael Gableman, the lawyer running the investigation, the same month that Gableman attended Lindell’s “cyber symposium” in South Dakota.

https://www.americanoversight.org/entity/wisconsin-office-of-special-counsel

so, sort of guilt by association?
how do any of those emails affect the actual investigation? seems to me they are simply investigating the investigation while it is ongoing.

how long is this going to go on? if there is nothing to see, and if nothing dodgy happened in the election then why do people work so hard and so long trying to prevent anyone from looking into it?

the aspersions cast by these info requests do not speak in the least to the preliminary findings of the investigation.

 

[tanj]

Your problem is shown in the last sentence of the third paragraph of your article from the right wing washington times.

Here it is for you.

Testifying before the Wisconsin legislature Tuesday about the report, OSC lead investigator Michael Gableman told lawmakers they should “take a very hard look” at decertifying the results that showed President Biden the winner in Wisconsin, although Republicans in Madison have repeatedly rejected revisiting the results.

I read the rest of the article. It doesn't say how anyone was bribed. It doesn't say how it's illegal for a private company to fund a get out the vote project. That company can spend it's money anyway it wants with in our laws. You might want to check out the conservative Supreme Court ruling Citizens United.

The 2020 election is over.

trump lost.

Get over it.

did you read the preliminary investigation report that was attached?
yes its over. yes he lost. there is no constitutional or legal mechanism to change that result. but that is no reason that proper investigation should not take place, as is happening.
if actions are determined to be illegal, at the very least they should not be allowed to happen again.
the amount of energy being poured into preventing such investigation is staggering considering how many swear there was nothing at all wrong with that election.

 

[tanj]

JUst another "Fraudit".

then there's nothing to worry about, right? why try so hard to prevent investigation?

 

[tanj]

Yup. Told ya back in mid January on https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...election-claims.448854/page-7#post-1075261262

this is why there is such an effort to shout down, discredit or prevent actual investigation.

 

[tanj]

It should be noted that while the attempt to sway elections by the passage of voting laws in a number of states are aimed at controlling the individual vote cast by the individual voter, situations such as that suggested in the OP are due to partisan/party interference, not by individual voters.

Regards, stay safe 'n well 'n remember the Big 5.

sounds right, but what is the importance of that distinction?
a big problem in that election were changes to election laws done in an unconstitutional manner outside of the state's legislatures.
actions by individuals would be relatively miniscule in effect, whereas actions by corporations and government would have a much greater opportunity to have an effect.

 

[tanj]

The 2020 election is over. It has already been certified. Long time ago.

that doesn't mean that any funny business ahead of or during the election gets to pass without notice.
if laws were broken, and it seems that they were in this case, then should they not be handled appropriately so that the same does not happen again?
protecting the integrity of the vote IS protecting democracy.

I don't believe that anyone in any of these investigations truly believes that the findings will be allowed to change the person in office.
that ship has sailed and we have no process in place for correcting it.

 

[Peacenik]

that doesn't mean that any funny business ahead of or during the election gets to pass without notice.
if laws were broken, and it seems that they were in this case, then should they not be handled appropriately so that the same does not happen again?
protecting the integrity of the vote IS protecting democracy.

I don't believe that anyone in any of these investigations truly believes that the findings will be allowed to change the person in office.
that ship has sailed and we have no process in place for correcting it.

I agree. If there were any irregularities, and that is certainly possible if not probable, they didn't amount to enough to make any difference in the outcome. There is fraud and attempted cheating in every election. There is always somebody who thinks the ends justify the means and is so sure their candidate is right for the office that they will go outside the law. Happens every time. But to what degree?

And of course that should always be sought out and corrected where possible. What is wrong is when that is done in a partisan way.

What the Republican party is now doing is trying to rig future elections so they win all the time. That is destroying our democracy. They never cared about mail-in voting as long as it was more Republicans doing it than Democrats. Oh, but as soon as the pandemic made it a health risk to stand in line and Democrats took to voting by mail, NOW Republicans want to place all kinds of restrictions on it. That is ridiculous.

The American people are losing faith in our election system, but the two parties have different reasons. Trump supporters simply refuse to believe that he could lose, have this blind faith that he is SUPPOSED to win. They are setting about finding any way they can make that happen in 2024. Democrats see that they have won the popular vote every time, but their candidate doesn't always win the electoral college. It's hard for them to understand why the winner of the popular vote should not be the election winner.

If we had the popular vote deciding who wins the election, there never would have been a violent attack on the capitol.

 

[mrjurrs]

so, sort of guilt by association?
how do any of those emails affect the actual investigation? seems to me they are simply investigating the investigation while it is ongoing.

how long is this going to go on? if there is nothing to see, and if nothing dodgy happened in the election then why do people work so hard and so long trying to prevent anyone from looking into it?

the aspersions cast by these info requests do not speak in the least to the preliminary findings of the investigation.

They speak to the people running the investigation. Who released the preliminary findings? The people running the investigation.

Do you believe that President Biden won a fair election in 11.20 with no statistically significant voter fraud?

 

[Torus34]

sounds right, but what is the importance of that distinction?
a big problem in that election were changes to election laws done in an unconstitutional manner outside of the state's legislatures.
actions by individuals would be relatively miniscule in effect, whereas actions by corporations and government would have a much greater opportunity to have an effect.

Hi, tanj!

You answered your own question.

The distinction suggests that all of the new laws about voter registration are essentially meaningless as bulwarks against attempts to 'steal' an election.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[coyote505]

I agree. If there were any irregularities, and that is certainly possible if not probable, they didn't amount to enough to make any difference in the outcome. There is fraud and attempted cheating in every election. There is always somebody who thinks the ends justify the means and is so sure their candidate is right for the office that they will go outside the law. Happens every time. But to what degree?

And of course that should always be sought out and corrected where possible. What is wrong is when that is done in a partisan way.

What the Republican party is now doing is trying to rig future elections so they win all the time. That is destroying our democracy. They never cared about mail-in voting as long as it was more Republicans doing it than Democrats. Oh, but as soon as the pandemic made it a health risk to stand in line and Democrats took to voting by mail, NOW Republicans want to place all kinds of restrictions on it. That is ridiculous.

The American people are losing faith in our election system, but the two parties have different reasons. Trump supporters simply refuse to believe that he could lose, have this blind faith that he is SUPPOSED to win. They are setting about finding any way they can make that happen in 2024. Democrats see that they have won the popular vote every time, but their candidate doesn't always win the electoral college. It's hard for them to understand why the winner of the popular vote should not be the election winner.

If we had the popular vote deciding who wins the election, there never would have been a violent attack on the capitol.

The last time a President was elected while totally ignoring a major section of the country to the extent Hillary did was 1860. We saw how that worked out. If the Electoral College makes that more difficult, that is a Feature, not a Bug!

Is it not trying to rig future elections when you try to pass "Voting Rights" legislation which allows felons to vote, even before they have completed their sentences, as NM Democrats tried to this year? It seems unlikely that felons are a legitimate interest group in the eyes of most Americans. But they are highly likely to like liberal positions, like soft sentencing, and be pretty reliable Democrat voters.

Is it not trying to rig future elections when you push for 16 year old voting rights, at the same time you insist that minors should not own guns, or be held fully accountable for their crimes, because their brains have not sufficiently matured?

 

[Schism]

That is whataboutism. I am not interested in he said she said about 2016. I place little value on The Guardian trying to stir up emotions and sell advertising by using a cheap shot approach to get attention. That's not news. That's just tabloid sensationalism.

This discussion is about the 2020 election. The 2020 election was not stolen. It was the most secure election in our history. Objections were heard, evidence was considered. Nothing changed the outcome. The election was properly certified. It is over. President Biden is our rightful president.

We either accept it or go into some weird fantasy world where time is frozen around this one event from our past. I'd rather deal with the current situation. Past elections are water under the bridge. Gone by, gone away. More coming down the stream.

Of course, you don't want to look at anything except your political hate.

 

[Peacenik]

The last time a President was elected while totally ignoring a major section of the country to the extent Hillary did was 1860. We saw how that worked out. If the Electoral College makes that more difficult, that is a Feature, not a Bug!

Is it not trying to rig future elections when you try to pass "Voting Rights" legislation which allows felons to vote, even before they have completed their sentences, as NM Democrats tried to this year? It seems unlikely that felons are a legitimate interest group in the eyes of most Americans. But they are highly likely to like liberal positions, like soft sentencing, and be pretty reliable Democrat voters.

Is it not trying to rig future elections when you push for 16 year old voting rights, at the same time you insist that minors should not own guns, or be held fully accountable for their crimes, because their brains have not sufficiently matured?

Those are all good arguments, but I still disagree.

Al Gore won the popular vote. We would have been far better off with Al Gore as president. We would have taken Climate Change more seriously and become a world leader on doing so. Would have happened back when the difference would have been more ahead of the destructive curve. Then we would not be in this pickle of having such terrible and extensive wildfires and hurricanes, and not be facing such dire predictions of sea level rise and mass immigration. Woulda, shoulda.

Money can't be so important that we destroy our own habitat in lust over it. That is an example of having priorities mixed up.

The only reason felons might swing Democratic is because most of them are black. It is a national shame that we still have institutionalized racism that imprisons blacks at a far greater rate than whites. For the same crime, blacks are more likely to be arrested, and if arrested, more likely to be charged. And if charged, blacks are more likely to be charged with more, and more serious crimes. That's if they make it past the school-to-prison pipeline set up to incarcerate them for life if they don't get wise very quickly as youngsters. The discriminatory system is in place and waiting for them before they even begin school.

Felons should be allowed to vote after they have served their time and win parole. If they violate parole, they lose their voting rights as well. That would provide extra incentive to avoid lawbreaking.

I don't know if I agree on letting 16yo's vote. I had not heard much about that. That is an age where people can certainly be very well informed and opinionated, but they can also be very immature and irresponsible. Tough call.