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Election 2012 - Voter Fraud or Rigged Machines?

johnny_rebson

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TheNextEra

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Or Rush LImpdick just got it wrong and Obama appealed to more people than Romney. Also, you are assuming that voting fraud was on the part of the people that voted for Obama and not Romney.

But hey, we know you have sour grapes, so whatever floats your conspiracy boat.
 

ttwtt78640

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Nonsense, while some voter fraud is happening (despite the left claiming that ballot fraud is either "rare" or non-existant), it can not possibly explain enough of the margin that Obama got to make it "the" cause of his victory. By zooming in on "strange" or "unprecedented" changes in some (but very, very few) district's voting trends makes it look "possible", but stand back for a minute and reverse/revise these "anomalies" back to the 2008 levels and Obama still wins, so my feeling is that, yes, voter/election official fraud still happens but fixing the system's problems (voter ID laws, better poll monitoring systems) is a better use of one's efforts than to try to reverse history (not possible) and rant about how "infair" political life has become.
 

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Again - 12 million people *less* voted this time than in 2008.

Why is that? It had nothing to the BS white/black/Asian voting - it had everything to do with the Republican candidate. He wasn't likable. He didn't appeal to the electorate.

Any local party leader without integrity can "rig" elections. There are hundreds of consultant agencies that contract 'a winning ticket'. I am sure it happened on both sides equally. When they can buck they system - they will.

The only difference is that we are in the information age. More people are beginning to realize what is really going on.
 

Rainman05

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Because a lot of people will type really angrily and with passion in this thread nobody will read this:

I am a cat.
 

Boo Radley

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Nonsense, while some voter fraud is happening (despite the left claiming that ballot fraud is either "rare" or non-existant), it can not possibly explain enough of the margin that Obama got to make it "the" cause of his victory. By zooming in on "strange" or "unprecedented" changes in some (but very, very few) district's voting trends makes it look "possible", but stand back for a minute and reverse/revise these "anomalies" back to the 2008 levels and Obama still wins, so my feeling is that, yes, voter/election official fraud still happens but fixing the system's problems (voter ID laws, better poll monitoring systems) is a better use of one's efforts than to try to reverse history (not possible) and rant about how "infair" political life has become.
While I agree with you sentiment. Shouldn't we actual prove fraud? I mean it was a republican who put this as a voter suppression effort, not liberals alone. So, as is the custom, those claiming there is fraud have a responsibility to prove it is real and significant, and that voter ids will fix the problem they prove.
 

ttwtt78640

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While I agree with you sentiment. Shouldn't we actual prove fraud? I mean it was a republican who put this as a voter suppression effort, not liberals alone. So, as is the custom, those claiming there is fraud have a responsibility to prove it is real and significant, and that voter ids will fix the problem they prove.
Not so fast there skippy, if you now have no way to verify who actually voted as J. Q. Public, how do you possibly prove fraud? The concept of presenting a valid, state issued, photo ID to buy alcohol/tobacco/guns/ammo or to cash a check is very widely accepted, one did not have to "prove" that fraud was widespread in order to implement these common sense protections; common sense alone dictates that without any system to positively relate actual voters to eligible voters, the idea of one man one vote is hard (if not impossible) to verify. I have yet to hear a huge cry to reverse these "discriminatory burdens" upon those that lack ID to enjoy buying alcohol/tobacco or cash their tax refund checks. If simply reciting any name/address combination of a registered voter is sufficient then one needs only that voter registraion list to vote as many times as they wish to; that is obvious to most folks.
 

Boo Radley

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Not so fast there skippy, if you now have no way to verify who actually voted as J. Q. Public, how do you possibly prove fraud? The concept of presenting a valid, state issued, photo ID to buy alcohol/tobacco/guns/ammo or to cash a check is very widely accepted, one did not have to "prove" that fraud was widespread in order to implement these common sense protections; common sense alone dictates that without any system to positively relate actual voters to eligible voters, the idea of one man one vote is hard (if not impossible) to verify. I have yet to hear a huge cry to reverse these "discriminatory burdens" upon those that lack ID to enjoy buying alcohol/tobacco or cash their tax refund checks. If simply reciting any name/address combination of a registered voter is sufficient then one needs only that voter registraion list to vote as many times as they wish to; that is obvious to most folks.
Prove someone voted who wasn't suppose to. Why do you guys so often think nothing can be proven? Investigate.
 

ttwtt78640

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haymarket

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Rush Limbaugh analyzed that data thoroughly and predicted a landslide victory by Romney.
Funniest line of the day. ;):lamo:roll: The idea of Limbaugh analyzing anything thoroughly is a very hilarious concept.
 

TheNextEra

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haymarket

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Again - 12 million people *less* voted this time than in 2008.

Why is that?
3 million of those came from New York and New Jersey and could well be attributed to the SANDY storms and subsequent difficulties.
 

ttwtt78640

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Can you show that a voter ID cannot be forged? I remember the people at my polling place and one of the ladies there had trouble even seeing the drivers license I presented. What makes you think these people are going to detect false IDs?
No system is likely to be 100% infallible, but certainly an improvement over simply guessing that one is who they say that they are. Should we strike down use of ID for purchase of alcohol/tobacco, driving and tell TSA officials/bank tellers just to "trust their instincts"?
 

Boo Radley

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Kal'Stang

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Prove someone voted who wasn't suppose to. Why do you guys so often think nothing can be proven? Investigate.
It has been proven. I've posted the video a few time on this forum. I'll post it again if you want me to. But a news reporter investigated for 3 months, 3 counties in florida where around 300 people voted that was not suppose to vote. Thats 100 fradulent votes per county. There are 67 counties in Florida total. That means that if each country had the same amount, 100, that is 6,700 fraudulent votes cast in Florida alone. There's 254 counties in Texas, applying the same amount (using it as average) thats 25,400 fraudulent votes cast. So on and so forth.

And those 300 were just the ones that he had with his limited resources. Do you know why he was able to find them and yet election officials can't ever seem to find them? Because they have to follow a procedure which does not include any of the ones that the reporter used. Like Jury summons where those that are not eligible to be on a jury because they were not citizens stated that they were not citizens, even though thier voter registration said that they were.

Oh I know, the common excuse that "just because they were registered to vote doesn't mean that they did". :roll: Yeah, there is no way to know whether they voted or not, but do you not see that as a problem? They're certainly registered to vote and yet despite that you're quite willing to assume that they didn't vote. Why is that?
 

ttwtt78640

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From you first link:

His claim rates Mostly False.

And from your second link:

It is easier to determine how many names of deceased people still appear on official voter registration lists than it is to determine how many (if any) actual votes were fraudulently cast in the name of a deceased person.
So even you have "proven" that the current system of simply reciting a name/address combination of a registered voter is NOT going to hamper voter fraud. That is the basis for coming up with improvements, discovering flaws, even "potential" flaws, in a system and taking corrective action. It is not proven that stairway rails prevent all accidents, yet we accept that they are good ideas, even while most people do not use them.
 

danarhea

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Again - 12 million people *less* voted this time than in 2008.

Why is that? It had nothing to the BS white/black/Asian voting - it had everything to do with the Republican candidate. He wasn't likable. He didn't appeal to the electorate.

Any local party leader without integrity can "rig" elections. There are hundreds of consultant agencies that contract 'a winning ticket'. I am sure it happened on both sides equally. When they can buck they system - they will.

The only difference is that we are in the information age. More people are beginning to realize what is really going on.
Too bad the GOP kicked Ron Paul to the curb, and nominated a RINO instead.
 

Boo Radley

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It has been proven. I've posted the video a few time on this forum. I'll post it again if you want me to. But a news reporter investigated for 3 months, 3 counties in florida where around 300 people voted that was not suppose to vote. Thats 100 fradulent votes per county. There are 67 counties in Florida total. That means that if each country had the same amount, 100, that is 6,700 fraudulent votes cast in Florida alone. There's 254 counties in Texas, applying the same amount (using it as average) thats 25,400 fraudulent votes cast. So on and so forth.

And those 300 were just the ones that he had with his limited resources. Do you know why he was able to find them and yet election officials can't ever seem to find them? Because they have to follow a procedure which does not include any of the ones that the reporter used. Like Jury summons where those that are not eligible to be on a jury because they were not citizens stated that they were not citizens, even though thier voter registration said that they were.

Oh I know, the common excuse that "just because they were registered to vote doesn't mean that they did". :roll: Yeah, there is no way to know whether they voted or not, but do you not see that as a problem? They're certainly registered to vote and yet despite that you're quite willing to assume that they didn't vote. Why is that?
It is true that you have to show they voted. There is a difference between registration fraud and voter fraud.
 

Boo Radley

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So even you have "proven" that the current system of simply reciting a name/address combination of a registered voter is NOT going to hamper voter fraud. That is the basis for coming up with improvements, discovering flaws, even "potential" flaws, in a system and taking corrective action. It is not proven that stairway rails prevent all accidents, yet we accept that they are good ideas, even while most people do not use them.
There is probably good evidence concerning stair rails (ask your home insurance agent). Again, you have to it happens, is a significant problem and that your solution will fix it. The burden is on your side.
 

Mithros

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Rush Limbaugh analyzed that data thoroughly and predicted a landslide victory by Romney.

Republicans will win in a landslide says Rush and Morris - St. Petersburg Political Buzz | Examiner.com


Was it voter fraud that turned the election the other way?

Voter Fraud Charges Begin in Ohio


Or did Obama rig the voting machines?

Did Obama Rig the Voting Machines?
How sadly predictable. As I said a few months ago when the polls were the conspiracy du jour among the conservative entertainment machine.

Step 1: Assume Everyone thinks like you.
Step 2: Apply stupidity to polls to make them agree with Step 1.
Step 3: Go to election day confidently predicting victory because of Step 2:
Step 4: After you lose on election day, assume fraud because of Step 3:.

That said, there was a lot more fraud this election than in previous elections. Granted it was mostly done by the GOP, but it was substantially more.
 

ttwtt78640

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There is probably good evidence concerning stair rails (ask your home insurance agent). Again, you have to it happens, is a significant problem and that your solution will fix it. The burden is on your side.
Wrong. Name one instance where a bottle of water or shampoo was used to hamper an airline flight.
 
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i agree!!!!! theres lots of proof that obama stole the election if people just use there brains instead of worshipping brack hussein obama what kind of a name is that any way???? did everyone forget about acorn and jeremiah wright and the black panthers??? this country needs to kcik obama out and reelect an american!!!!! and obama lies every single day about being a chrisitan and then he goes and makes abortion easier to get....jeeez this country is so screwed!!!!!!
 

Dwight

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So even you have "proven" that the current system of simply reciting a name/address combination of a registered voter is NOT going to hamper voter fraud. That is the basis for coming up with improvements, discovering flaws, even "potential" flaws, in a system and taking corrective action. It is not proven that stairway rails prevent all accidents, yet we accept that they are good ideas, even while most people do not use them.
Cost/benefit analysis! Right now voter id as a method of voting fraud detection says very poor return.
 

AdamT

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i agree!!!!! theres lots of proof that obama stole the election if people just use there brains instead of worshipping brack hussein obama what kind of a name is that any way???? did everyone forget about acorn and jeremiah wright and the black panthers??? this country needs to kcik obama out and reelect an american!!!!! and obama lies every single day about being a chrisitan and then he goes and makes abortion easier to get....jeeez this country is so screwed!!!!!!
Oh boy....
 

Dwight

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Wrong. Name one instance where a bottle of water or shampoo was used to hamper an airline flight.
TSA’s problems is not something you really want to hitch your wagon to, is it? :D
 
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