Elders Scroll V: Skyrim

[Your Star]

Ah, I can't wait, it's going to tide me over till Mass Effect 3.

 

[Your Star]

No doubt, FAllout 1 & 2 were better than Fallout 3, by far. I absolutely loved Fallout 2. Was pleasantly surprised by Fallout 3. I didn't love it, but didn't hate it either. It was meh overall. I only played it once. I've played Baldurs Gate 2 over two dozen times, Gothic 3 at least six times, Morrowind more than a dozen, and Oblivion about 6. I get USE out of the games I do buy, but I'm hella picky.

I'm sorry Di, but are you on drugs? Next to ME1 & 2 Fallout 3 was the best game I've ever played.

 

[Enola]

This thread motivated me to plug in my PS2 and Castlevania.

 

[DiAnna]

Geez, YS, you haven't even played Dragon Age 2 yet... it's awesome!!

I'm going to get Skyrim right off the bat. I have concerns that my old machine may not play it, but I'm still gonna buy it and hope I live long enough to get a machine that WILL play it! :mrgreen:

 

[Your Star]

Geez, YS, you haven't even played Dragon Age 2 yet... it's awesome!!

I'm going to get Skyrim right off the bat. I have concerns that my old machine may not play it, but I'm still gonna buy it and hope I live long enough to get a machine that WILL play it! :mrgreen:

I have DA 2, I just want to beat Awakening before I get too in to it.And I forgot about DA when making that little list, haha. And I'm probably going to get it as a gift, all my money has to gone to school. And that's the good thing about the consoles, I know it's going to work on my system :mrgreen:

 

[DiAnna]

I'm sorry Di, but are you on drugs? Next to ME1 & 2 Fallout 3 was the best game I've ever played.

Did you ever play the originals? I lost my RPG virginity on old school isometric games, and loved them. The story in Fallout 2 was great. You gathered great companions that were hilarious, it had wicked humor (FO 3 lacked that), and still allowed you to wander the wilderness at your leisure doing quests and exploring. Fallout 3 was a good game, it just didn't have the Fallout "Flavor" of the originals. It lacked the humor, the occasional absurdity, and gave a story that was as bleak and depressing as the landscape.

That's just my opinion, however.

 

[Your Star]

Did you ever play the originals? I lost my RPG virginity on old school isometric games, and loved them. The story in Fallout 2 was great. You gathered great companions that were hilarious, it had wicked humor (FO 3 lacked that), and still allowed you to wander the wilderness at your leisure doing quests and exploring. Fallout 3 was a good game, it just didn't have the Fallout "Flavor" of the originals. It lacked the humor, the occasional absurdity, and gave a story that was as bleak and depressing as the landscape.

That's just my opinion, however.

Fallout 3 was my first ever RPG, coming out of the vault and seeing DC come into focus was one of the best moments ever. Everything about FO3 was perfect IMO, except the ending, which they fixed so it's all good. And how can you not like Charon, or the nice super mutant companions? I haven't played the other games, but I doubt they could live up, especially since they are so old, and they way games are developed now are vastly different.

 

[Redress]

I'm sorry Di, but are you on drugs? Next to ME1 & 2 Fallout 3 was the best game I've ever played.

That is insane. Fallout 1 and 2 and Tactics all are much better games than ME1 or 2 or Fallout 3. Morrowind was much better than the Fallout games. Daggerfall blew Morrowind away. And some of the classics(Wiz, M & M, Gold Box games) are even better as RPGs go. They simply do not make RPGs with the depth of gameplay and the level of options and difficulty that they used to. Same is true for MMOs and strategy games.

 

[Your Star]

That is insane. Fallout 1 and 2 and Tactics all are much better games than ME1 or 2 or Fallout 3. Morrowind was much better than the Fallout games. Daggerfall blew Morrowind away. And some of the classics(Wiz, M & M, Gold Box games) are even better as RPGs go. They simply do not make RPGs with the depth of gameplay and the level of options and difficulty that they used to. Same is true for MMOs and strategy games.

RPG's are much better today IMO. Just because a game doesn't have a myriad of convoluted menus doesn't mean that the game isn't deep, or challenging.

 

[digsbe]

I think there are elements to appreciate it both older RPGs and newer RPGs. I personally found Morrowind to be better than Oblivion.

To be honest what I miss are the good turn based RPGs with good animations

 

[Your Star]

I think there are elements to appreciate it both older RPGs and newer RPGs. I personally found Morrowind to be better than Oblivion.

To be honest what I miss are the good turn based RPGs with good animations

Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal to turn based games(I love me some Dragon Age), but it always seemed to me that the reason turn based combat came about was because the tech wasn't there to make the actual combat any good, and now that it is there, it just seems less necessary. And I can't help but get over the feeling that they could have made a real time combat system that would be more visceral, and fun, that's just me though. Also the fact that people claim that a game isn't an RPG when it doesn't have TBC is laughable to me.

 

[digsbe]

Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal to turn based games(I love me some Dragon Age), but it always seemed to me that the reason turn based combat came about was because the tech wasn't there to make the actual combat any good, and now that it is there, it just seems less necessary. And I can't help but get over the feeling that they could have made a real time combat system that would be more visceral, and fun, that's just me though. Also the fact that people claim that a game isn't an RPG when it doesn't have TBC is laughable to me.

I think you have a valid point. And I also agree that it's laughable when people want to state that non TBC games aren't "real" RPGs. I mainly like turn based games for strategy reasons. I enjoy RTC but TBC is my favorite. One thing I really love about newer RPGs is how game worlds have expanded and character customization has become more important and meaningful.

How do you feel about the quick travel option in Oblivion and Skyrim? Personally I dislike it. I enjoyed having to pay to take a boat or strider in Morrowind to get from place to place, it made the game feel more "real."

 

[Your Star]

I think you have a valid point. And I also agree that it's laughable when people want to state that non TBC games aren't "real" RPGs. I mainly like turn based games for strategy reasons. I enjoy RTC but TBC is my favorite. One thing I really love about newer RPGs is how game worlds have expanded and character customization has become more important and meaningful.

How do you feel about the quick travel option in Oblivion and Skyrim? Personally I dislike it. I enjoyed having to pay to take a boat or strider in Morrowind to get from place to place, it made the game feel more "real."

Quick travel is practical, with maps as big in these type of games it is good to be able to skip through the more mundane things, and get to the good stuff, and you can always not use it, so it is totally the players choice. It's just good game design.

And I agree, I really love the direction alot of new RPG's are going, especially a series like Mass Effect, being able to create your own unique storyline within this world, being able to go through a story arc with one character over a trilogy of games, it's simply amazing.

 

[Redress]

RPG's are much better today IMO. Just because a game doesn't have a myriad of convoluted menus doesn't mean that the game isn't deep, or challenging.

Deep is not a myriad of convoluted menus, it is about having a myriad of options. It is about having a ton of decisions.

 

[the_recruit]

I think you have a valid point. And I also agree that it's laughable when people want to state that non TBC games aren't "real" RPGs. I mainly like turn based games for strategy reasons. I enjoy RTC but TBC is my favorite. One thing I really love about newer RPGs is how game worlds have expanded and character customization has become more important and meaningful.

How do you feel about the quick travel option in Oblivion and Skyrim? Personally I dislike it. I enjoyed having to pay to take a boat or strider in Morrowind to get from place to place, it made the game feel more "real."

First of all, I don't see what's enjoyable about that. The first time you see a stider, yeah, it's neat. But having to do it over and over and over and over again, the magic wears off.

Second of all, you don't HAVE to fast travel anywhere in Oblivion. You can walk the whole damn way if you want. But, I'm sure you'll agree, that's not fun. Sure, it's fun to take a stroll every now and then and look for dungeons to loot, but it's just annoying when you're at the top of the map and you need to go all the way to the bottom to collect the reward for a quest. So the game developers decided to add the option of fast-traveling to those players who'd like to use it. I certainly don't see how that's a problem.

 

[Your Star]

Deep is not a myriad of convoluted menus, it is about having a myriad of options. It is about having a ton of decisions.

And you have a TON of decisions to make in games like Mass Effect 1 & 2, Fallout 3, New Vegas, Dragon Age:Origins, and 2, Final Fantasy, etc. To say that games today aren't deep is just false.

 

[DiAnna]

That is insane. Fallout 1 and 2 and Tactics all are much better games than ME1 or 2 or Fallout 3. Morrowind was much better than the Fallout games. Daggerfall blew Morrowind away. And some of the classics(Wiz, M & M, Gold Box games) are even better as RPGs go. They simply do not make RPGs with the depth of gameplay and the level of options and difficulty that they used to. Same is true for MMOs and strategy games.

OMG, you loved Wizardry and Might & Magic too?? Ahhh... great times.

 

[Redress]

And you have a TON of decisions to make in games like Mass Effect 1 & 2, Fallout 3, New Vegas, Dragon Age:Origins, and 2, Final Fantasy, etc. To say that games today aren't deep is just false.

I think you simply do not have the background to compare. The older games where on a whole other plane of strategic and tactical complexity.

 

[Redress]

OMG, you loved Wizardry and Might & Magic too?? Ahhh... great times.

Wiz 7 is probably the best all time RPG ever. Not enough games have other forces actually active in the game world, who by their actions can change gameplay. Don't get to a map soon enough, well you will have to find out what NPC beat you to it.

 

[Your Star]

I think you simply do not have the background to compare. The older games where on a whole other plane of strategic and tactical complexity.

And I think you are simply nostalgic for the older games. Today's games are just as complex, if not more so.

 

[stsburns]

to OP:

Still playing Oblivion! Every time I play it I always find a new a new dungeon or quest to do!

 

[spud_meister]

And I think you are simply nostalgic for the older games. Today's games are just as complex, if not more so.

I think Redress has a point though, as RPG's have increased in popularity, the makers have tried to appeal to a wider base. Just look at the difference in plot/main quest between Morrowind and Oblivion. In Morrowind you have to find out why you're in Morrowind, earn the trust of the natives, then gather the tools and kill the bad guy, and they built up an entire culture for you to immerse yourself in (when I first got it, I'd play Morrowind for hours and hours), in Oblivion, you skip straight to gather stuff and kill the bad guy. The playability of Oblivion comes not from the main quest, as it does in Morrowind, but from the explorability of the world.

 

[DiAnna]

And I think you are simply nostalgic for the older games. Today's games are just as complex, if not more so.

Actually, they're not. In the old games, the rules were so complex that Baldur's Gate 2, for example, came with a 100+ page instruction manual. Don't get me wrong, I love today's games as well... but I love them because they aren't that complicated and my mage can fling fireballs until the bad guys are dead instead of flinging the two she had memorized, then having to find someplace to sleep before she could fling two more. Also, I miss adventuring with a crew of companions. I loved it when I had five other peeps in the group who could balance the needs of the team.

Todays games have been simplified to appeal to a broader market and make more money. Which is fine by me.

 

[DiAnna]

I think Redress has a point though, as RPG's have increased in popularity, the makers have tried to appeal to a wider base. Just look at the difference in plot/main quest between Morrowind and Oblivion. In Morrowind you have to find out why you're in Morrowind, earn the trust of the natives, then gather the tools and kill the bad guy, and they built up an entire culture for you to immerse yourself in (when I first got it, I'd play Morrowind for hours and hours), in Oblivion, you skip straight to gather stuff and kill the bad guy. The playability of Oblivion comes not from the main quest, as it does in Morrowind, but from the explorability of the world.

Absolutely right. The main quest in Oblivion sucks. I complete it first, before my character has even reached level 8. Then I can spend the rest of my time exploring, doing quests, marching up the ladder in my guilds, and becoming arena grand champion! :mrgreen:

 

[Mach]

And I think you are simply nostalgic for the older games. Today's games are just as complex, if not more so.

After finishing Fallout New Vegas, I'm starting to come around on some games. New Vegas is a fairly solid game once I got going.
They still haven't figured out the concept of a "Power curve", or "nice weapon models for FPS", but their de-emphasis of the horror of VATs and the incredible non-linearity/depth is really in a good place on that game. And there are a lot of whacky/funny items/plots, no denying it.
There are however to undeniable trends in PC gaming that parallel other industries:

1. big budget games being churned out with similar look/feel and lack innovation
2. Adaptation to console gaming loses the PC feel

I think Redress, we should consider playing on one step higher than "normal" gameplay for most games. Some of it could just be the dumbing down effect, like fallout, where you basically walk through the entire game and never have to think tactics only because just randomly hitting things results in long-term success. Ultima, Bards Tale, Wizardry, I recall a lot of saving and restarting of those games. I have very little of that in new games, it's mostly only a save/restart when the game glitches or I accidentally get NPCs as enemies, or I went the wrong way and don't want to trudge back the other way..

I mean, fallout takes so long to play, but some of the early weapons you get are really all you need to complete the entire game. What fun is that?