El Chapo says the border is NOT where drugs come from

[ataraxia]

The trial of the Mexican cartel kingpin El Chapo is giving the US a lot of insight into how these Mexican cartels operate. They are learning about channels of entry, distribution networks, etc...

The last place these drugs come from, it turns out, is the border. And even when they do, walls are "no problema".

"Trump’s continued insistence on securing the southern border with a wall seems to disregard the economic forces driving the drug trade and diminish Mexican cartels’ innovative distribution strategies.

A high-tech border fence constructed in Arizona long before Trump’s inauguration has proven virtually useless in stopping drugs from crossing into the U.S.: Mexican smugglers just use a catapult to fling hundred-pound bales of marijuana over to the American side.

“We’ve got the best fence money can buy,” former DEA chief Michael Brown said to The New York Times in 2012, “and they counter us with a 2,500-year-old technology.”

Then there’s the other ancient technology perfected by Guzmán: the tunnel.

Officials have discovered about 180 cleverly disguised illicit passages under the U.S.-Mexico border. Many, like the one Guzmán used to escape prison, are equipped with electricity, ventilation and elevators.

Trump has admitted that anyone could use “a rope” to climb over his wall, but believes that more border guards and drone technology would prevent infiltration. "
El Chapo trial shows why a wall won't stop drugs from crossing the US-Mexico border

 

[Skeptic Bob]

We have known this for a long time. A wall MIGHT put a dent in illegal immigration, but it will have virtually zero effect on drug trafficking. When the right claims it will they risk casting doubt on rest of their claims about the wall.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Don't matter, idiots don't care about the facts, just what Fox news tells them to think

 

[Eriech]

El Chapo paid the Mexican President 150 million. How much did he pay Obama, Pelosi and Schumer to maintain an open border?

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[ataraxia]

Yeah. I am starting to think this wall is more of importance to Trump and his supporters as a monument, a symbol more than anything of any practical use- a monument to fear and bigotry.

As far as symbols and monuments, we once used to build welcoming statues dedicated to liberty and freedom, welcoming the poor and desperate seeking refuge from foreign lands. Now we want to build symbols and monuments to fear and hatred.

 

[ataraxia]

El Chapo paid the Mexican President 150 million. How much did he pay Obama, Pelosi and Schumer to maintain an open border?

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Probably not as much as Putin pays Trump.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

El Chapo paid the Mexican President 150 million. How much did he pay Obama, Pelosi and Schumer to maintain an open border?

 

[Felis Leo]

The trial of the Mexican cartel kingpin El Chapo is giving the US a lot of insight into how these Mexican cartels operate. They are learning about channels of entry, distribution networks, etc...

The last place these drugs come from, it turns out, is the border. And even when they do, walls are "no problema".

Why would you take this drug kingpin at his word? Let us leave aside the fact that we know right now that most of the illegal drugs our government has interdicted have come through legal ports of entry (I would argue that this is because those legal point of entry are actually guarded). But if you were the head of a major cartel with family members who run it alongside you, why would you give away all the ways and means your organization uses to smuggle drugs across the border into the United States? What is the incentive to tell the truth?

I have no doubt that El Chap knows that building stronger border security, including a border wall, is an issue of major contention within the United States and is dividing American society. If smuggling drugs across unguarded sections of the border is indeed one way he gets drugs into the United States, why on Earth would he give that away and say "Oh, yeah, a well-guarded border wall would probably hurt a lot of my drug trafficking operations."?

 

[ataraxia]

Why would you take a drug kingpin at his word? Let us leave aside the fact that we know right now that most of the illegal drugs our government has interdicted have come through legal ports of entry. But if you were the head of a major cartel with family members who run it alongside you, why would you give away all the ways and means your organization uses to smuggle drugs across the border into the United States? What is the incentive to tell the truth?

I have no doubt that El Chap knows that building stronger border security, including a border wall, is an issue of major contention within the United States and is dividing American society. If smuggling drugs across unguarded sections of the border is indeed one way he gets drugs into the United States, why would he give that away and say "Oh, yeah, a well-guarded border wall would probably hurt a lot of my drug trafficking operations."?

Because this has also been the impression of everyone else working on the border. They have built over 140 air-conditioned and ventilated tunnels under the AZ part of the wall over the years. It's easy and cheap. This was supposedly the most technologically advanced wall building they could do. Why would building more wall thwart them now?

 

[Helix]

Yeah. I am starting to think this wall is more of importance to Trump and his supporters as a monument, a symbol more than anything of any practical use- a monument to fear and bigotry.

As far as symbols and monuments, we once used to build welcoming statues dedicated to liberty and freedom, welcoming the poor and desperate seeking refuge from foreign lands. Now we want to build symbols and monuments to fear and hatred.

If it gets built somehow, it will be fun to tear down once Trumpists are no longer in charge. I would recommend using public employee union labor to do it just for some extra lols.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Why would you take this drug kingpin at his word? Let us leave aside the fact that we know right now that most of the illegal drugs our government has interdicted have come through legal ports of entry (I would argue that this is because those legal point of entry are actually guarded). But if you were the head of a major cartel with family members who run it alongside you, why would you give away all the ways and means your organization uses to smuggle drugs across the border into the United States? What is the incentive to tell the truth?

I have no doubt that El Chap knows that building stronger border security, including a border wall, is an issue of major contention within the United States and is dividing American society. If smuggling drugs across unguarded sections of the border is indeed one way he gets drugs into the United States, why on Earth would he give that away and say "Oh, yeah, a well-guarded border wall would probably hurt a lot of my drug trafficking operations."?

Hey uh... you know, even with a wall and no tunnels, you can just throw the drugs over the wall, right?

 

[PoS]

Look at it this way, if Mexico stopped importing drugs to the US, half of America will run across the border and become illegals in Mexico...

 

[Felis Leo]

Hey uh... you know, even with a wall and no tunnels, you can just throw the drugs over the wall, right?

Hence why I would argue for a well-patrolled and guarded border barriers (whether they take the form of a wall or fence). I am not, as some might argue, arguing for an unguarded barrier that people can dig under from a relatively close distance or throw drugs over without being spotted.

 

[azgreg]

Hey uh... you know, even with a wall and no tunnels, you can just throw the drugs over the wall, right?

They have found drug catapults attached to the fence here in Arizona.

 

[Kal'Stang]

The trial of the Mexican cartel kingpin El Chapo is giving the US a lot of insight into how these Mexican cartels operate. They are learning about channels of entry, distribution networks, etc...

The last place these drugs come from, it turns out, is the border. And even when they do, walls are "no problema".

So...we're listening to a guy that has a vested interest in keeping the border as insecure as possible? If El Chappo says that a border wall is "no problema" then its probably a safe bet that it actually is a "problema".

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Hence why I would argue for a well-patrolled and guarded border barriers (whether they take the form of a wall or fence). I am not, as some might argue, arguing for an unguarded barrier that people can dig under from a relatively close distance or throw drugs over without being spotted.

If it's so well guarded that no one could throw a package over the wall without being seen, why would we need the wall at all?

So...we're listening to a guy that has a vested interest in keeping the border as insecure as possible? If El Chappo says that a border wall is "no problema" then its probably a safe bet that it actually is a "problema".

Ah yes, the opposite of what any cartel member says is automatically true! If you've got some kind of evidence that any substantial percentage of drugs are being physically carried across the border where there are gaps in the wall, present it.

 

[Eriech]

View attachment 67248631

Logical question; I know logic is frowned on here.


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[armycowboy]

Yeah. I am starting to think this wall is more of importance to Trump and his supporters as a monument, a symbol more than anything of any practical use- a monument to fear and bigotry.

As far as symbols and monuments, we once used to build welcoming statues dedicated to liberty and freedom, welcoming the poor and desperate seeking refuge from foreign lands. Now we want to build symbols and monuments to fear and hatred.

^ This X1000

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Logical question; I know logic is frowned on here.


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Maybe in Trump zombie World. Not here.

 

[Felis Leo]

If it's so well guarded that no one could throw a package over the wall without being seen, why would we need the wall at all?

Good question, RabidAlpaca. A wall, or really, any extended fortification/barrier forces the illegal entrant to concentrate their efforts at breaking through at a specific point. Let us pretend for the sake of argument that ALL the border walls and fences across the border, including the existing ones were taken down. It would require far, far, far more border patrol agents to guard those now barrier-free stretches to interdict any illegal aliens. With a barrier, some measure of effort is required to getting through them, whether you are talking about climbing equipment, or tunneling under, or simply breaking through the barrier itself. In other words, it forces illegal entrants to concentrate their efforts at getting through specific points, and thus they can be better-intercepted at those specific points. When there is no barrier, illegal entrants can come from anywhere there is no guard patrol.

 

[trouble13]

Look at it this way, if Mexico stopped importing drugs to the US, half of America will run across the border and become illegals in Mexico...

That might not be a bad thing

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[Myview]

The trial of the Mexican cartel kingpin El Chapo is giving the US a lot of insight into how these Mexican cartels operate. They are learning about channels of entry, distribution networks, etc...

The last place these drugs come from, it turns out, is the border. And even when they do, walls are "no problema".

I didn't want a wall to begin with. The more I see and hear about what a drug king pin has to say and what people and towns say who are on the border the more senseless a huge expensive whatever is. We don't even know what to call it.

 

[azgreg]

If it's so well guarded that no one could throw a package over the wall without being seen, why would we need the wall at all?



Ah yes, the opposite of what any cartel member says is automatically true! If you've got some kind of evidence that any substantial percentage of drugs are being physically carried across the border where there are gaps in the wall, present it.

The DEA agrees with El Chapo

 

[Moon]

We have known this for a long time. A wall MIGHT put a dent in illegal immigration, but it will have virtually zero effect on drug trafficking. When the right claims it will they risk casting doubt on rest of their claims about the wall.

Regardless of what Trump says, the primary reason for a physical barrier is to make illegal entry into the US more difficult and give Border Patrol a better opportunity to apprehend the illegals.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Regardless of what Trump says, the primary reason for a physical barrier is to make illegal entry into the US more difficult and give Border Patrol a better opportunity to apprehend the illegals.

They need to stick to that talking point then.

It is like when people in favor of legalizing marijuana exaggerate the benefits. It hurts the cause.