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Eisenhower Explains About General Lee (1957)

You cannot change history. There was a civil war. It was prepared by a decision to secede and the attack on Fort Sumter was the opening shot. The USA was not about to stand by and just watch half the country break away.

You are being simplistic to equate political disagreement with a bloody war. Donald Trump and his profane tweets, his racism and ineptitude has brought criticism but that is not the same as war.

he's a Lincoln hater and Trump lover.



need to hear anything else?
 
he's a Lincoln hater and Trump lover.



need to hear anything else?

They are both nominal Republican presidents which goes to show how radically the GOP has changed in recent times.
 
Many people (including me) like IKE.

I was a teenager in the 1950s. It was the last peaceful decade in our country's history.

If you don't count the Korean war that is..I did not see my father until I was nearly 2 years old because of that war.
 
Donald Trump does the attacking. The rest of us have to defend ourselves against his divisiveness, keeping children in cages, repatriating the fathers of American schoolchildren to Central America, paramilitary goons gassing peaceful demonstrators in American streets, and seeing the death toll from Covid-19 mount.

On particular issues, I do support your commentary. On Trump, it is attack, attack and more. Trump has not attacked you ever. Keeping Children in Obama's children's cages you mean and he does not allow that since it happened and it came out.What is a paramilitary in the face of the goons that were gassed? Trump is not a doctor. I do not blame him at all over CV19. In fact when he has made suggestions, he gets attacked again.
 
This is a good article about Lee in The Atlantic.

By a super hard core Democrat supporter. Read all of his hard core Democrat supporting articles.

Here: All Stories by Adam Serwer - The Atlantic

I have been to former slave holding properties, including Mt. Vernon and Monticello and believe me, there were preserved slave quarters there.

None at all at the estate at Gen. Lees former estate at Arlington, VA.

If Lee was this vicious slave owner, why were the places to keep slaves not there?

Why use a devoted Trump hater as your source in the Atlantic?
 
They are both nominal Republican presidents which goes to show how radically the GOP has changed in recent times.

Caught in the lights does not mention why I come out as a Lincoln hater and why I like what Trump does so much.

Abe as the president gets excused all the time for his full scale invasion of VA. That was the true commencement of an actual war. Had Abe quit when he was defeated at Manassas, I could forgive him due to by that time, not 630,000 deaths but only a smaller number of deaths.

Abe ordered troops into VA to ... well kill the residents living there. Sure history says Abe figured he would kill them fast and they would quit. Sure, quit 4 years later. I count the deaths caused by Abe and those caused by Trump in a complete different way. Trump has not created a huge army to kill off Americans, Abe did.

Abes defenders act like the bloody battles at Manassas two times did not happen at all. Abe hurled thousands of men to die at the hands of Lee and those dead man did not fight over slaves, they fought because they were ordered to fight by Abe Lincoln.

The South Was Right, the Historians Are Wrong: Taking the Antislavery Origins of the Civil War Seriously

There were two separate and not connected issues. Issue 1 is secession. Secession clearly was over slavery. Secession did not mean the South was at war, it meant it did not trust the feds at all in the same way Democrats do not trust Trump and wage war against him and lie claiming it is Trump attacking them. Trump must defend the presidency.

Issue 2 is why Abe invaded VA. Were it about Sumter, one can at least think of a forgiveness had Abe commenced his war on that site. But he went after a distant state with the force of a madman.
 
They are both nominal Republican presidents which goes to show how radically the GOP has changed in recent times.

More from historians.
Lincoln said
We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government must be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices…f we surrender, it is the end of [the Republican Party] and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum. A year will not pass, till we shall have to take Cuba as a condition upon which they will stay in the Union.

Many historians have concluded that if the North was not motivated by any substantial antislavery convictions, then the Civil War cannot be justified morally. Why fight a war the purpose of which was only to restore the Union if emancipation was only an accidental byproduct?

In his remarkable new book, Freedom National: The Destruction of Slavery in the United States, 1861-1865, James Oakes argues that the historians who deny the antislavery origins of the war are mistaken. He contends that from the outset, Republicans had slavery in their sights. Southerners understood that the antislavery threat to the South was real. Accordingly, secession was not an hysterical overreaction to Lincoln’s election but an understandable response to the fact that an antislavery majority in the North had elected an antislavery President.
The South Was Right, the Historians Are Wrong: Taking the Antislavery Origins of the Civil War Seriously
 
he's a Lincoln hater and Trump lover.



need to hear anything else?

OK that makes you a Lincoln Lover and a true Trump hater. And you think Abe sent massives waves of troops due to blacks?

My god man, read more books on this topic.
 
OK that makes you a Lincoln Lover and a true Trump hater. And you think Abe sent massives waves of troops due to blacks?

My god man, read more books on this topic.

^ check out this logic
 
Many people (including me) like IKE.

I was a teenager in the 1950s. It was the last peaceful decade in our country's history.

I too was a teen in the 1950s and old enough to recall the way my parents and millions of other Democrats did not want Ike as president, at all. Mom said many times that Ike was a good General and a lousy President. Mom also hated Reagan.

In the 50s, we saw live A bombs blown up on TV and we were told by teachers how to do a minimum job of self preservation.

Ike came in on the Democrats war against North Korea and my uncle left for Japan from his leave and the next time I saw his presence was in his coffin dead. Course we had a closed casket due to his decomposition in the battle field in South Korea. Mom hated war so much I did not want to serve when drafted in 1964.
 
This is short. General Eisenhower/President Eisenhower says he has the 4 photos on his wall of this nation's most important men.

See who he names as Great.

I will confess. It is Robert E. Lee.

Democrats brag they liked Eisenhower. That is the biggest sack of horse poop on this planet. I was then a Democrat and we hated Eisenhower.

But Ike defended Robert E. Lee.

What about that?



If one puts Lee into the context of his times, I agree with IKE. Back then there really wasn't a thing as an American. They were Virginians, New Yorkers, Ohioan's, Georgian's, Kentuckian's etc. T Folks back in Lee's day owed their allegiance more to their state than to the federal government. When asked where one was from, they would answer with their state.

Lee's allegiance wasn't for the Confederate government as it was for his state. Lee would have fought on whichever side Virginia decided on going. Few considered or referred to themselves as Americans back in those days, not until after the Spanish-American War did everyone begin to consider themselves American and their state secondary.

But context of the times get completely lost, especially to those on this site. That no one can do anything about. Viewing history through today's 21st Century eyes and context completely erases the reasons and the context which historical events took place.
 
I too was a teen in the 1950s and old enough to recall the way my parents and millions of other Democrats did not want Ike as president, at all. Mom said many times that Ike was a good General and a lousy President. Mom also hated Reagan.

In the 50s, we saw live A bombs blown up on TV and we were told by teachers how to do a minimum job of self preservation.

Ike came in on the Democrats war against North Korea and my uncle left for Japan from his leave and the next time I saw his presence was in his coffin dead. Course we had a closed casket due to his decomposition in the battle field in South Korea. Mom hated war so much I did not want to serve when drafted in 1964.


Regardless of what one may think of President Trump, he HAS kept his promise to keep us out of foreign wars. And that is what many ordinary Americans want.

This has infuriated some Democratic and Republican hawks who think that we should be intervening everywhere. After all, they do not go. They send the sons of mostly poor or middle-class families.

If I have interpreted your post correctly, you imply that we should let other nations fight their own battles. We should keep out. Not one American boy should have to die for our international "friends." For example, let's do sell the best weapons to Taiwan so that it can stand up to the Commies on the mainland. But I do not think a single American boy should have to die in such a battle.


Have a nice day!
 
If one puts Lee into the context of his times, I agree with IKE. Back then there really wasn't a thing as an American. They were Virginians, New Yorkers, Ohioan's, Georgian's, Kentuckian's etc. T Folks back in Lee's day owed their allegiance more to their state than to the federal government. When asked where one was from, they would answer with their state.

Lee's allegiance wasn't for the Confederate government as it was for his state. Lee would have fought on whichever side Virginia decided on going. Few considered or referred to themselves as Americans back in those days, not until after the Spanish-American War did everyone begin to consider themselves American and their state secondary.

But context of the times get completely lost, especially to those on this site. That no one can do anything about. Viewing history through today's 21st Century eyes and context completely erases the reasons and the context which historical events took place.

Well said.

This country, as you point out was more like a conglomeration of states than any particular thing we currently call a nation. As small countries, one owes his allegiance to his state.

But even today, where I used to live in CA, I was an outcast republican. Here in Idaho I am welcome as a Republican. Some things have not changed.
 
Regardless of what one may think of President Trump, he HAS kept his promise to keep us out of foreign wars. And that is what many ordinary Americans want.

This has infuriated some Democratic and Republican hawks who think that we should be intervening everywhere. After all, they do not go. They send the sons of mostly poor or middle-class families.

If I have interpreted your post correctly, you imply that we should let other nations fight their own battles. We should keep out. Not one American boy should have to die for our international "friends." For example, let's do sell the best weapons to Taiwan so that it can stand up to the Commies on the mainland. But I do not think a single American boy should have to die in such a battle.


Have a nice day!

You read me correctly.

When I served in the then Kennedy Army, I was open to my First Sgt who I worked directly for in his office. I said to him, Seems funny that we are here in Germany supposedly fighting for freedom for the Germans when we in the Army have no such freedom for ourselves. It hit him the wrong way, of course.
 
If one puts Lee into the context of his times, I agree with IKE. Back then there really wasn't a thing as an American. They were Virginians, New Yorkers, Ohioan's, Georgian's, Kentuckian's etc. T Folks back in Lee's day owed their allegiance more to their state than to the federal government. When asked where one was from, they would answer with their state.

Lee's allegiance wasn't for the Confederate government as it was for his state. Lee would have fought on whichever side Virginia decided on going. Few considered or referred to themselves as Americans back in those days, not until after the Spanish-American War did everyone begin to consider themselves American and their state secondary.

But context of the times get completely lost, especially to those on this site. That no one can do anything about. Viewing history through today's 21st Century eyes and context completely erases the reasons and the context which historical events took place.

I disagree. Lee didn't fight for the state of Virginia in the Mexican-American War.

He knew very well that fighting under the CSA flag was treasonous.
 
Wait one minute.

The powerful fort was hit by what today is called ineffective cannon balls. In fact, Abe attacked the fort and spent most of the war trying to ruin Sumter and the Confederates only spent 34 hrs I believe and nobody was harmed. Abe went to war over a very stout building is all it was.

The worst was next. Abe invaded VA with thousands of his troops who got beaten badly. But Abe is who started the combat phase, not Robert Lee. Lee defended his country but he was not the opening commanding General.Bingo, you called it correct only blame Abe for those massive losses.

i assure you had Abe refused to Invade, the worst that could be said is he refused to invade.

Of course Eisenhower was no Trump. Trump was attacked prior to him taking office and Democrats waged a hell of a war on him from the start. Democrats have done what you accused the South of doing, attacking a lawful president. The Trump Pence Government has achieved many hundreds of good things for our own country.

Incorrect in so many ways....

Sumter was attacked by the Confederacy who had already started the shooting prior to Lincoln's presidency. The lack of deaths is due to orders to not expose the troops to plunging fire from Confederate batteries. Not that the Confederates didn't try.

As to the "invasion". It was not the first shots fired on land. And it was solely to recover FEDERAL property and bases illegally taken by the Confederacy. As has been proven to you time and again. It was the South that amassed troops intent on blocking the Federals. Had there been no resistance there would not have been a battle.
 
Incorrect in so many ways....

Sumter was attacked by the Confederacy who had already started the shooting prior to Lincoln's presidency. The lack of deaths is due to orders to not expose the troops to plunging fire from Confederate batteries. Not that the Confederates didn't try.

As to the "invasion". It was not the first shots fired on land. And it was solely to recover FEDERAL property and bases illegally taken by the Confederacy. As has been proven to you time and again. It was the South that amassed troops intent on blocking the Federals. Had there been no resistance there would not have been a battle.

You will say and do anything to justify Lincolns invasions.
 
This is short. General Eisenhower/President Eisenhower says he has the 4 photos on his wall of this nation's most important men.

See who he names as Great.

I will confess. It is Robert E. Lee.

Democrats brag they liked Eisenhower. That is the biggest sack of horse poop on this planet. I was then a Democrat and we hated Eisenhower.

But Ike defended Robert E. Lee.

What about that?



Not surprising, coming from a man who opposed Brown v Board.
 
This is short. General Eisenhower/President Eisenhower says he has the 4 photos on his wall of this nation's most important men.

See who he names as Great.

I will confess. It is Robert E. Lee.

Democrats brag they liked Eisenhower. That is the biggest sack of horse poop on this planet. I was then a Democrat and we hated Eisenhower.

But Ike defended Robert E. Lee.

What about that?



The tax rate under Eisenhower are considered by his party to be socialist today. Democrats find them agreeable.
 
I disagree. Lee didn't fight for the state of Virginia in the Mexican-American War.

He knew very well that fighting under the CSA flag was treasonous.

Okay, Lee went with his state whichever way it went. With loyalty to their home state as high as it was back then, if Ohio had went with the south, so too would have Grant. The Mexican-American War was a great training ground for all of those generals who fought in the Civil War.

You have to remember, prior to the civil war the U.S. standing army or active duty army was 12,000 men in 1840, which increased to 44,000 in 1847 the start of the Mexican-American war. The federal government still relied on state militia and volunteers. By 1850 the active duty army was back down to 11,000 and only 16,000 in 1860.

The federal government held little sway over the states back then. It wasn't this huge all powerful conglomeration that it is today. I suppose I don't understand the hate spewed forth towards those who participated in the a war 160 years ago. That wasn't there 20 years ago. Perhaps it has to do with our polarized society we live in today. Also the refusal to place events and happenings of history in their proper context of the times they occurred.

It's pretty simple with Lee, he was more loyal to his home state of Virginia as most folks were more loyal to their home state back then than to the U.S. government or the nation. And yes, Lee knew he was fighting for the CSA, but that was the side chosen by his home state. One also should remember, Lee was in charge of the Army of Virginia, not the CSA army.
 
On particular issues, I do support your commentary. On Trump, it is attack, attack and more. Trump has not attacked you ever. Keeping Children in Obama's children's cages you mean and he does not allow that since it happened and it came out.What is a paramilitary in the face of the goons that were gassed? Trump is not a doctor. I do not blame him at all over CV19. In fact when he has made suggestions, he gets attacked again.

I'm not a doctor either but I believe Donald Trump did great harm when he minimized the risk of Covid-19 and failed to declare a national emergency to tackle the threat as happened in other countries. In one sense it is good that Donald Trump cannot make medical decisions such as putting lights inside people's lungs but he could have written one of his Executive Orders initiating a federal response led by the best scientific advice. Instead he abdicated all responsibility to governors. That was a mistake and a major lack of leadership. It should be clear that the man is not up to the job.
 
By a super hard core Democrat supporter. Read all of his hard core Democrat supporting articles.

Here: All Stories by Adam Serwer - The Atlantic

I have been to former slave holding properties, including Mt. Vernon and Monticello and believe me, there were preserved slave quarters there.

None at all at the estate at Gen. Lees former estate at Arlington, VA.

If Lee was this vicious slave owner, why were the places to keep slaves not there?

Why use a devoted Trump hater as your source in the Atlantic?
It is not good enough to attempt to dismiss an article because of how the author votes. I never heard Americans react this way in the past. You need to say what was wrong with the article and cite instances of inaccuracies with sources.
 
I'm not a doctor either but I believe Donald Trump did great harm when he minimized the risk of Covid-19 and failed to declare a national emergency to tackle the threat as happened in other countries. In one sense it is good that Donald Trump cannot make medical decisions such as putting lights inside people's lungs but he could have written one of his Executive Orders initiating a federal response led by the best scientific advice. Instead he abdicated all responsibility to governors. That was a mistake and a major lack of leadership. It should be clear that the man is not up to the job.

Jean S, frankly I do not know why but I gave you full credit as if you understood how the US government works in real life.

Trump was himself misled by China. Trump did not minimize a known risk, he did not know the actual risk. Do you right now understand the full risk? i doubt you do or you would not say about Trump what you say.

Other countries do not have our system. We have states. Write that down. The USA itself does not have the authority you speak as if it does.

Lights into their lungs? The man is no doctor and all he was trying to learn is about the disease so he asked doctors about his suggestions. Good presidents do that Jean S.

Governors lead states. That is why they get called Governors. i do not read you complaining about Gov. Cuomo who issued orders leading to the deaths of thousands of victims. Why is that Jean S?
 
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