• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Egypt's Military Gives President 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Big News could get bigger.
The Aid of the West is the only thing that keeps Egypt eating.
As I said in the 2 yr old 'Riots erupt' string, no one can make enough of them happy. Too many, too poor.
This guy won with a good plurality, but Any reason is a good one to get rid of Islamists.


ALeqM5iLvF6sktjMOIn39BQNdQ0fk7pQUg

Egyptian demonstrators gather in Cairo's landmark Tahrir Square during a protest on July 1, 2013
(AFP, Mohamed el-Shahed)

Updated July 1, 2013, 3:25 p.m. ET
Egypt Military Gives Morsi 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis - WSJ.com
Egypt's Military Gives President 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis
Defense Minister Says the Army Would Be 'Forced to Act'
By MATT BRADLEY And REEM ABDELLATIF
Video and Slideshow within

CAIRO—Thousands of protesters erupted into cheers after Egypt's military leaders warned that they would intervene if the president failed to resolve a political crisis within 48 hours, setting the stage for a military coup a day after Millions of Egyptians thronged the country's streets demanding the president's resignation.

The statement came hours after eight people were killed in Cairo as rioters ransacked the headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is President Mohammed Morsi's power base. Protesters also regrouped Monday in the capital's central Tahrir Square and in front of the president's Ittihadiya Palace for a second day of demonstrations, which appeared to be some of the largest in Egypt's history.

The headquarters of another political party, Al Wasat, was also showed being torched, allegedly by anti-government protesters, according to live footage from Egyptian satellite channel CBC. A moderate Islamist party, Al Wasat has aligned itself with the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamist parties in the past year.
[......]


This is when al-jazeera is most useful.
http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/
 
Last edited:

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Updated July 2, 2013, 4:21 p.m. ET
Clashes Turn Deadly as Egypt Showdown Looms
U.S. President Obama Calls Egyptian President to Stress Concerns
By REEM ABDELLATIF
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...0864003593342.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

Looks like they're celebrating July 4th.. but I don't think so.

OB-YB235_0702ta_P_20130702143407.jpg

Fireworks burst over Tahrir Square in Cairo on Tuesday. Shops were closed as hundreds of thousands of people
again turned out to protest against the country's Islamist president.

CAIRO—Protests in Egypt erupted in deadly clashes late Tuesday, as President Mohammed Morsi entered the final day of a military-imposed ultimatum on his rule showing no signs of reaching out to the opposition or ceding power.

Mr. Morsi's supporters and anti-government protesters clashed near Cairo University in the suburb of Giza late Tuesday, leaving at least four people dead, according to the Ministry of Health. The opposing groups traded fire of rubber bullets and pellets in Cairo's Kit Kat district, according to residents and local media.

Support continued to fall away from Mr. Morsi one day after Gen. Abdel Fattah Al Sisi, the country's defense minister and the chief of the powerful Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, told Mr. Morsi that he had 48 hours to resolve the country's political crisis or risk having the military impose its own "road map" to resolve it.

On Tuesday, two presidential spokesmen and a spokesman for Mr. Morsi's cabinet resigned, according to state-run media. That followed the late Monday resignation of Foreign Minister Mohammed Kamel Amr and several other cabinet members, according to the state news agency.

Egypt's main opposition groups, meanwhile, singled out a leader they would rally behind, Egyptian diplomat Mohamed ElBaradei."...
Oh No, Not ex IAEA head El Baradei who had no problem with Iran.
 
Last edited:

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Big News could get bigger.
The Aid of the West is the only thing that keeps Egypt eating.
As I said in the 2 yr old 'Riots erupt' string, no one can make enough of them happy. Too many, too poor.
This guy won with a good plurality, but Any reason is a good one to get rid of Islamists.


ALeqM5iLvF6sktjMOIn39BQNdQ0fk7pQUg

Egyptian demonstrators gather in Cairo's landmark Tahrir Square during a protest on July 1, 2013
(AFP, Mohamed el-Shahed)

Updated July 1, 2013, 3:25 p.m. ET
Egypt Military Gives Morsi 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis - WSJ.com
Egypt's Military Gives President 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis
Defense Minister Says the Army Would Be 'Forced to Act'
By MATT BRADLEY And REEM ABDELLATIF
Video and Slideshow within




This is when al-jazeera is most useful.
Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

This could be very good news.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh No, Not ex IAEA head El Baradei who had no problem with Iran.


The Muslim Brotherhood had few problems with Iran either. Maybe the 'moderates' are finally showing up.
 

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,858
Reaction score
10,292
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I am ambivalent toward this situation. There are benefits and drawbacks from such an outcome. The impact will depend on whom will constitute the temporary replacement government. Right now, perhaps the least risky course for the U.S. is to allow Egyptians to resolve their political differences without trying to weigh in toward either the embattled Morsi government or the military, which appears to be backed by Egypt's people.
 

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
63,475
Reaction score
30,680
Location
New Mexico
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Big News could get bigger.
The Aid of the West is the only thing that keeps Egypt eating.
As I said in the 2 yr old 'Riots erupt' string, no one can make enough of them happy. Too many, too poor.
This guy won with a good plurality, but Any reason is a good one to get rid of Islamists.


ALeqM5iLvF6sktjMOIn39BQNdQ0fk7pQUg

Egyptian demonstrators gather in Cairo's landmark Tahrir Square during a protest on July 1, 2013
(AFP, Mohamed el-Shahed)

Updated July 1, 2013, 3:25 p.m. ET
Egypt Military Gives Morsi 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis - WSJ.com
Egypt's Military Gives President 48 Hours to Resolve Crisis
Defense Minister Says the Army Would Be 'Forced to Act'
By MATT BRADLEY And REEM ABDELLATIF
Video and Slideshow within




This is when al-jazeera is most useful.
Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

It's pretty damn crazy.

  • The military ousted Mubarak.
  • Then they held elections where the Muslim Brotherhood did a lot of groundwork and won the rushed election
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass for a bit
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass again
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Morsi tries to turn a rather secular state into more of a forced Islamic state
  • The general public revolots
  • Now the military say's "fix this revolt or we are stepping in to force you to step down"
  • The Muslim Brotherhood has responded by saying, "If you try to force Morsi out it will be war on Egypt"


So basically what we have now in Egypt is:

The general public & the Egypt military vs Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

This could get ugly and fast.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's pretty damn crazy.

  • The military ousted Mubarak.
  • Then they held elections where the Muslim Brotherhood did a lot of groundwork and won the rushed election
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass for a bit
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass again
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Morsi tries to turn a rather secular state into more of a forced Islamic state
  • The general public revolots
  • Now the military say's "fix this revolt or we are stepping in to force you to step down"
  • The Muslim Brotherhood has responded by saying, "If you try to force Morsi out it will be war on Egypt"


So basically what we have now in Egypt is:

The general public & the Egypt military vs Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

This could get ugly and fast.

This happened some time during that time line also.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/w...ted-states-aid-to-egypt-is-restored.html?_r=0

Pressure builds to nix gift of tanks, F-16s to Egypt | Fox News

Egyptian Muslims murdering Christians with impunity - International - Catholic Online

U.S. gift of F-16 fighters headed to Egypt, despite Morsi's harsh rhetoric | Fox News
 

Grand Mal

Question authority
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
37,860
Reaction score
19,979
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
It's pretty damn crazy.

  • The military ousted Mubarak.
  • Then they held elections where the Muslim Brotherhood did a lot of groundwork and won the rushed election
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass for a bit
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Then Morsi kissed the military's ass again
  • Then Morsi backed out on the military
  • Morsi tries to turn a rather secular state into more of a forced Islamic state
  • The general public revolots
  • Now the military say's "fix this revolt or we are stepping in to force you to step down"
  • The Muslim Brotherhood has responded by saying, "If you try to force Morsi out it will be war on Egypt"


So basically what we have now in Egypt is:

The general public & the Egypt military vs Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

This could get ugly and fast.

This is the 'Arab Spring' that so many evangelists of democracy were crowing about. It was the same when the Shah was deposed and when the dust settles in Iraq and in Syria there'll be Islamic governments there, too.
Best thing that could happen for Egyptians is if the army sets up another dictator.
 

GPS_Flex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
2,726
Reaction score
648
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This is the 'Arab Spring' that so many evangelists of democracy were crowing about. It was the same when the Shah was deposed and when the dust settles in Iraq and in Syria there'll be Islamic governments there, too.
Best thing that could happen for Egyptians is if the army sets up another dictator.
I appreciate your comments and agree that a dictator might be better for Egypt as well as the US. It would be preferable in this instance, if a secular leader were eventually elected to lead Egypt (just my opinion).

By hastily forcing a constitutional referendum through without any input or participation from his legislative opposition, and by preventing the supreme constitutional court from reviewing the referendum process, his legitimacy, democratically elected or not, has been invalidated. He has broken his social contract with the people who elected them and they have a natural right to remove him from power by whatever means required.

This is how the social contract works. He quickly stacked the deck to consummate his power over elections so I expect his removal will require further violence and perhaps a civil war. Democracy isn't the end all be all so many idiots seem to think it is.

Separation of powers and checks and balances are what make the difference when it comes to preventing potential civil wars. I understand that we had a civil war even though we had those in place but that war was fueled by the slavery issue, so I admit there are exceptions to every rule.
 
Last edited:

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This is the 'Arab Spring' that so many evangelists of democracy were crowing about. It was the same when the Shah was deposed and when the dust settles in Iraq and in Syria there'll be Islamic governments there, too.
Best thing that could happen for Egyptians is if the army sets up another dictator.

Maybe another benign dictator, like Mubarak, may be necessary until the area is prepared for genuine democracy.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Democracy isn't the end all be all so many idiots seem to think it is. Separation of powers and checks and balances are what make the difference when it comes to preventing potential civil wars. I understand that we had a civil war even though we had those in place but that war was fueled by the slavery issue, so I admit there are exceptions to every rule.

Democracy is more than simply electing someone to office. It also has to include a Bill Of Rights similar to the conditions you describe, where everyone enjoys their freedoms.

Democracy was threatened in the US because of slavery, and millions died as a result. Democracy is now disappearing in Egypt, it seems, because, in part, Muslims are murdering Christians. Decent people everywhere will eventually fight against these injustices against others in their midst and it seems a good thing that it is happening in Egypt sooner rather than later.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
CNN is reporting that a military coup is under way in Egypt
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,670
Reaction score
20,653
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Via tweet ABC news is reporting that Morsi is under house arrest.
 
Last edited:

jmotivator

No longer monitoring
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
27,115
Reaction score
13,518
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
I have to admit, I was skeptical of this happening after the MB took power. For a very long time now the greatest force of moderate westernization in Egypt has been it's military. The US and its allies trained and educated the Egyptian top brass for years. As such the more moderate groups in Egypt have always trusted the military more than anyone in keeping the peace and preserving the more open and tolerant Egyptian society that is so rare in that region.

But when the MB won power and Morsi began replacing military leaders I figured it was all over. I underestimated the Egyptian military. Morsi tried to change Egypt to a Theocracy with all the finesse and patience of a teenage boy on prom night. Thank goodness he did, too, because it was a shock to the system and thank God the Egyptian people and the military have now responded.

There is some hope.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Via tweet ABC news is reporting that Morsi is under house arrest.

It's being reported that members of the Muslim Brotherhood are being arrested as well. surely some very positive news, if its true.
 

Erod

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,357
Reaction score
8,099
Location
North Texas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
What a tremendous day this is. Hopefully, this will serve as an example, and other countries will get rid of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is just a front and a money launderer for Islamic terrorists.
 

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Best for this story I think:
Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

Hate Islamists, but Don't know how they can so quickly get rid of legitimately and solid-majority elected Govt.
US might also be blamed sometime in the future for military coup. "July 4th Revolution"?
Wholesale resignations of Morsi appointees.
 
Last edited:

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Best for this story I think:
Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

Hate Islamists, but Don't know how they can so quickly get rid of legitimately and solid-majority elected Govt.
US might also be blamed sometime in the future for military coup. "July 4th Revolution"?
Wholesale resignations of Morsi appointees.

Solidly elected doesn't mean that much if the winners have no economic sense and human rights are being ignored.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,670
Reaction score
20,653
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Marines poised for mission in Egypt

A contingent of the Marines' new fast reaction force for rescue missions in Africa has been moved to Sigonella, Italy, for possible action in Egypt.

"This is certainly one of the possibilities of the (task force)," Marine Capt. Eric Flanagan, a spokesman based at the Pentagon, said in an email. "The unit is always on standby with a short tether."

With Egypt teetering on anarchy, the 500-member Marine unit could be called on to swoop in and help secure the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
 

mbig

onomatopoeic
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
10,350
Reaction score
4,989
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
MB/supporters insist a Military coup.
But not a simple one... as it appears the Military is putting together a New 'Transitional Civilian Coalition' rather than ruling itself.
[opposition] El Baradei, Heads of Coptic Church and of Al Azhar Reportedly to be in group making statement in next hour.
To be followed by New elections. (Presidential and Parliamentary)
Morsi missing/incommunicado.

Watching: Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

EDITS:
Military head al-Sisi statement:
Their "Roadmap" includes:
Suspension of Constitution, Early Elections, 'Charter of Ethics' including Free Press.
Chief Justice to run Transitional Govt.
 
Last edited:

L0neW0lf

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
343
Location
Jordan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Another one bites the dust.
 

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
63,475
Reaction score
30,680
Location
New Mexico
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
This is the 'Arab Spring' that so many evangelists of democracy were crowing about. It was the same when the Shah was deposed and when the dust settles in Iraq and in Syria there'll be Islamic governments there, too.
Best thing that could happen for Egyptians is if the army sets up another dictator.

awesome. then we are backing an oppressive dictator that makes the people resent us even more. what you are suggesting is us, iran , the shah and ayatolla khomeni all over again. taking the more westernized middle east countries and making them more militant than ever. I'll opt out of that path. they need to elect their way out of it. let them feel the sting of their electoral mistakes and grow from it.


now let's just sit back and wait for the extremely obvious joke that lazy minds will repeat ad nauseum based on my last sentence there.
 

Grand Mal

Question authority
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
37,860
Reaction score
19,979
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
awesome. then we are backing an oppressive dictator that makes the people resent us even more. what you are suggesting is us, iran , the shah and ayatolla khomeni all over again. taking the more westernized middle east countries and making them more militant than ever. I'll opt out of that path. they need to elect their way out of it. let them feel the sting of their electoral mistakes and grow from it.


now let's just sit back and wait for the extremely obvious joke that lazy minds will repeat ad nauseum based on my last sentence there.

Leave 'em be. No management needed.
 
Top Bottom