Kanstantine
Banned
- Joined
- May 28, 2013
- Messages
- 891
- Reaction score
- 153
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
The banner of the slide on Drudge Report was TS/SI/ORCON/NOFORN. So... yeah.
He may have had understandable or honorable intentions. That doesn't make the act itself right.
:shrug: yes. Government is force, it is coercion, it is the use of the threat of violence against your neighbor to force him (and you) to live together somewhat peaceably. All goverment power is thus subject to the possibility of incredible abuse against the people. Think about it: the government of the US has more and better weapons than anyone else on the planet and you are worried about them intercepting your pizza order?
The way we protect ourselves is through the balance of power, the use of checks and balances, the setting of faction against faction. That is how we keep government from being used to abuse us. Many of us often disagree with the particulars of decisions reached in compromises between those factions, and so we have regular elections to allow ourselves to change the mix.
Are you against civil disobedience in all cases?
.......no. I wouldn't say that I am capable at this point of providing final judgement on the program or snowden. I would point out that a critical part of civil disobedience is that you be willing to experience the punishment for your actions because of your beliefs in the higher moral truth of your cause. Snowden appears unwilling to do so.
Let's make one thing perfectly damn clear: the government has no ****ing business spying on the international cellphone calls of Americans who are under no suspicion of criminal or terrorist activity.
This wasn't civil disobedience, this was tantamount to treason.
That is a good point. I’ll give him a little slack, though, since he actually outed himself. He may be staying outside our jurisdiction so he can ensure his side of the story is heard. Or there may be some ulterior motive. We’ll have to see how it plays out.
This wasn't civil disobedience, this was tantamount to treason.
Man i cant believe you call yourself a "libertarian" then...
Read more @: Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance | World news | guardian.co.uk
And he is out. The man who revealed this **** storm. A hero and a great man that was not afraid to tell the truth and reveal something he thought was wrong. Whistle blowing is not a crime! [/FONT][/COLOR]
This wasn't civil disobedience, this was tantamount to treason.
This wasn't civil disobedience, this was tantamount to treason.
He has destroyed collection programs that have saved lives in the past, and would likely have otherwise saved lives in the future. The American People did not grant Edward Snowden authority to make life or death decisions on their behalf - they granted that to their government instead.
Whistle-blowing is revealing illegal acts. It's not about revealing top-secret information.
I read cpwill’s post as possibly indicating since the government sanctioned the program it was wrong to go against their will. I had doubts cpwill believed that in all cases which is why I asked him about civil disobedience.
I agree this wasn’t civil disobedience since he signed a nondisclosure agreement and voluntarily put himself in a position of having to keep secrets. But I also don’t consider it treason. On the surface it seems to me he did this out of loyalty to the Constitution and constitutional principles. I refuse to see someone who acts out of devotion to the Constitution as a traitor. A criminal, maybe, but not a traitor.
Once again, that is based on what I know so far. It is always possible we could learn something about this person and his actions that cast everything in a new light.
I don't question his motives, I do question the lives he has endangered.
As those of us on the right keep having to point out: "libertarian" =/= "anti-government". it only seems that way to those who support boundless government, because they are less well suited to appreciate arguments for authority within defined limits. that's why you get all those silly "somalia should be your paradise" strawman arguments, where limited government is confused with anarchy.
He has destroyed collection programs that have saved lives in the past, and would likely have otherwise saved lives in the future. The American People did not grant Edward Snowden authority to make life or death decisions on their behalf - they granted that to their government instead.
Mr. Snowden is an American hero, in every sense of the word.
He has put his entire life, career, and future in jeapordy, because he felt our freedom and Constitution was being violated.
We should all strive to have even 10% of his courage.
I treasure both. Therefore..... what?
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