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Edward Snowden, defector [W:139]

Edward Snowden, defector?

Hmmmmm.

Edward Snowden, hero who is defecting.


That's better.

He's not a hero; he's a traitor. Anyone who works or has worked for the NSA or for an offense contractor or even the US military is a traitor.

Snowden's explanation of his actions is bull!@#$. If he knew the NSA was malevolent, he shouldn't worked for it in the first place.
 
If my Father were still alive, he'd be surprised to learn that his 24 years of service and his disabling wounds in Korea were evidence that he was a traitor.

Are you serious? Quite a lot of traitors on this board.

Or are you just having a bad day?



He's not a hero; he's a traitor. Anyone who works or has worked for the NSA or for an offense contractor or even the US military is a traitor.

Snowden's explanation of his actions is bull!@#$. If he knew the NSA was malevolent, he shouldn't worked for it in the first place.
 
He's not a hero; he's a traitor. Anyone who works or has worked for the NSA or for an offense contractor or even the US military is a traitor.

Snowden's explanation of his actions is bull!@#$. If he knew the NSA was malevolent, he shouldn't worked for it in the first place.

You are assuming that he already knew. No one omniscient. And no, not everyone who has worked for the government is a 'traitor.' That word get thrown around too much. :roll:
 
Jürgen Trittin argues that Germany should offer Snowden Asylum

Edward Snowden deserves shelter in Germany

The man who revealed that our US and UK allies are spying on us ought to be given refuge by an EU country


-snip-

If even a few of these revelations are true, our worst Orwellian nightmares have become reality. Already trust between the EU and the US, and between the EU and its member state Britain has been violated. Both governments need to react to these accusations, clarify the activities of their secret services and, if true, stop these programmes immediately. Surveillance without suspicion to this extent constitutes a violation of the right to privacy laid down, for instance, in the international covenant on civil and political rights.

-snip-

Above all, the messenger for all this should not be blamed. Snowden blew the whistle on activities that threaten the very freedom our democracies are built on. If ever a case demonstrated why we need the protection of whistleblowers, this is it. Snowden should not have to rely on a cynical human rights violator such as Vladimir Putin. He should be given shelter in an EU country. Germany, as one of the countries targeted most by the NSA's programmes, should be among the first to offer him refuge.

Despite the fact that Angela Merkel today denied him asylum, in German law, section 22 of the residence act allows the federal government to grant a residence permit on urgent humanitarian grounds. The government can do so in order to uphold the political interests of the country. According to the law, a request for extradition – which the US might then seek – can be denied because of the political character of the criminal offence the person in question is accused of. Our laws enable us to do so, and Chancellor Merkel should act accordingly.

Edward Snowden deserves shelter in Germany | Jürgen Trittin | Comment is free | The Guardian
 
You are assuming that he already knew.

Snowden is full of !@#$. Anyone who has ever bothered to read a journal/newspaper published outside the US knows that the NSA spies on everything it can get its grubby hands on 24/7, in blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. That's why we have strong encryption; to keep organizations like the NSA out.

The only ones who don't know that are illiterate right wing bumkins (i. e. palin).

No one omniscient. And no, not everyone who has worked for the government is a 'traitor.' That word get thrown around too much. :roll:

Anyone who works for the military-industrial-complex (NSA, CIA, FBI, ATF, US military, Lockheed, Boeing) in any capacity is a traitor, no exceptions.

Either you're with the country, or with the government.
 
He's not a hero; he's a traitor. Anyone who works or has worked for the NSA or for an offense contractor or even the US military is a traitor.

Snowden's explanation of his actions is bull!@#$. If he knew the NSA was malevolent, he shouldn't worked for it in the first place.

Putting aside for the moment your assertion of who constitutes a traitor.

Are you saying that you cannot join out of ignorance, gain knowledge, regret your actions and then leave without still being a traitor?

You are not big on forgiveness are you?
 
Because he doesn't have many options. US govt took away his visa and is using economic pressures against other countries that even think about taking him in.

Heya Geoist. :2wave: This could prove interesting. After Putin offered him asylum. He wouldn't take it under the condition Putin mentioned.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, who held talks today with Putin after a gas exporters’ summit in Moscow yesterday, said he’ll consider any request from Snowden once he arrives back in Caracas after a stop tomorrow in Belarus.

Snowden’s Russian stay is becoming a “soap opera,” Maduro said in an interview with Russia’s RT television network that was also aired on Venezuelan state television.

Earlier, Maduro laughed when a reporter asked if he would bring Snowden back with him from Moscow.

“What I’m thinking about bringing back are a lot of agreements that we’re going to sign with Russia, and a lot of Russian investment in oil and gas,” he said.

Bolivia’s President Evo Morales told RT television today that his country is ready to consider Snowden’s request.

The Snowden case has shaken international relations, with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry last week warning China and Russia of “consequences” of their actions in spurning U.S. extradition requests. U.S. officials later shifted to a more conciliatory approach, and President Barack Obama said that “some useful conversations” have been held between the U.S. and Russia to resolve the issue.

The anti-secrecy group pointed to a report by the Associated Press that cited three unidentified American officials as saying the Obama administration is trying to convince Russia to expel Snowden to the U.S. or to a third country, possibly in eastern Europe, that would then hand him over to U.S. authorities. The report is evidence that “the U.S. is plotting to render Snowden via eastern Europe to the U.S.,” WikiLeaks said.

Nothing that happens to Snowden can stop the release of more information in his possession about classified U.S. programs, said Julian Assange, founder of WikiLeaks, which publishes government documents on its website.....snip~

Snowden

More than likely those useful talks Obama was mentioning, were more like apologies.
 
Putting aside for the moment your assertion of who constitutes a traitor.

Are you saying that you cannot join out of ignorance, gain knowledge, regret your actions and then leave without still being a traitor?

You are not big on forgiveness are you?

You can forgive, but only after the person confesses, is punished, and takes responsibility (i. e. compensates the victims) for his/her actions.

Snowden hasn't done any of that. He just lies to himself and everyone else about having only noble intentions when he knows damn well he deliberately joined an outfit that he now (rightly) condemns.
 
I think Snowden did all you ask.

He has confessed. He will be on the run or locked away for life - quite a punishment. His sacrifice is caused by taking responsibility.




.
You can forgive, but only after the person confesses, is punished, and takes responsibility (i. e. compensates the victims) for his/her actions.

Snowden hasn't done any of that. He just lies to himself and everyone else about having only noble intentions when he knows damn well he deliberately joined an outfit that he now (rightly) condemns.
 
Come on now.

We're talking about "The Man Who Killed bin Laden!!!" here.

Do you really think he has ANY limitations?

I think bombing Sheremetovo Airport might be a little over the line. It's not a good idea at any rate.
 
You can forgive, but only after the person confesses, is punished, and takes responsibility (i. e. compensates the victims) for his/her actions.

Snowden hasn't done any of that. He just lies to himself and everyone else about having only noble intentions when he knows damn well he deliberately joined an outfit that he now (rightly) condemns.

Your assuming he intended in the beginning to do harm. Having a quick look at his background he originally joined the military but broke two legs and so was not able to continue. He then joined NSA as a guard and eventually got the job he had because he was good at IT. It sounds like he was someone who wanted to give to his country.

Maybe in your world everyone knows everything before they begin but I have never noticed this. I would say it looked like he joined for the right reasons, wanting to help his country and it looks like he has become a whistle blower for exactly the same reason, giving up a lot personally to do this.
 
I think Snowden did all you ask.

No he hasn't. He didn't even apologize to the people of the US for helping spy on them. He just said in his last video that he was trying to do good by revealing the NSA's spying tactics--stuff we already know about.

And he has yet to be punished; he's not yet in jail.
 
Why should he be in jail and Clapper be free? At least Snowden tried, Clapper probably got a raise from the King.


No he hasn't. He didn't even apologize to the people of the US for helping spy on them. He just said in his last video that he was trying to do good by revealing the NSA's spying tactics--stuff we already know about.

And he has yet to be punished; he's not yet in jail.
 
Your assuming he intended in the beginning to do harm. Having a quick look at his background he originally joined the military

Because he was a high school dropout. FYI, the military is one of the few organization that accepts drop outs (unofficially) and pays a survivable income (barely), as opposed to working at Taco Bell and putting yourself thru college.

but broke two legs and so was not able to continue.

Duh, that's when happens when you join the military. And he apparently was too damn stupid to figure out that the government was crock of !@#$ after it failed to take care of him in spite of him having "served his country."

He then joined NSA as a guard and eventually got the job he had because he was good at IT.

TRANSLATION: having screwed up by making a dumb decision to join the military, instead of learning his lesson, he decided to work for the same institution (uncle sammy) who treated him like dirt, because it was easy to do so, as opposed to marketing his IT skills for a noble cause.

Kinda like a prostitute who goes back to her pimp.

It sounds like he was someone who wanted to give to his country.

Sounds like he was a loser who aimed for the lowest thing he could get that gave him the biggest paycheck.

Maybe in your world everyone knows everything before they begin

Grown ups are supposed to. Only small kids are exempt.

but I have never noticed this. I would say it looked like he joined for the right reasons, wanting to help his country and it looks like he has become a whistle blower for exactly the same reason, giving up a lot personally to do this.

That's only the reason he says he's doing it. We don't know his actual motive.

But what is known is that real heroes NEVER work for dishonorable institutions, even if they pay big $$. They say "no way, Jose" and walk away, and aim for something else.

Snowden was NOT one of those people. He was a coward who jumped at the first thing that came his way, and now is paying the price for it, but IMHO, not a big enough price.
 
If my Father were still alive, he'd be surprised to learn that his 24 years of service and his disabling wounds in Korea were evidence that he was a traitor.

My rule only applies to the modern world, not the world 50 years ago. At that time, the US government and its people were somewhat unified. No longer.
 
I'm sorry but I can't view todays soldiers as traitors. I view them as brave men, often manipulated to do things that are questionable.


My rule only applies to the modern world, not the world 50 years ago. At that time, the US government and its people were somewhat unified. No longer.
 
I'm sorry but I can't view todays soldiers as traitors. I view them as brave men, often manipulated to do things that are questionable.

Doesn't matter if they were manipulated. They're still responsible for all their wrongdoings.
 
Snowden is full of !@#$. Anyone who has ever bothered to read a journal/newspaper published outside the US knows that the NSA spies on everything it can get its grubby hands on 24/7, in blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. That's why we have strong encryption; to keep organizations like the NSA out.

The only ones who don't know that are illiterate right wing bumkins (i. e. palin).



Anyone who works for the military-industrial-complex (NSA, CIA, FBI, ATF, US military, Lockheed, Boeing) in any capacity is a traitor, no exceptions.

Either you're with the country, or with the government.

I may agree with you if he was still with the NSA, but he isn't. He realized the NSA's policies were bad for the country and he left, giving up a pretty good life. So tell me, how exactly is he a traitor in the present tense.
 
Doesn't matter if they were manipulated. They're still responsible for all their wrongdoings.

And he quit and exposed what he believed was wrong. Get off the pedestal.
 
My rule only applies to the modern world, not the world 50 years ago. At that time, the US government and its people were somewhat unified. No longer.

What does 'unification' have to do with it?
 
And he quit and exposed what he believed was wrong. Get off the pedestal.

He did NOT expose anything, really, because all the stuff he accused the NSA of doing is already known by anyone who bothers to read international newspapers.

He quit, but only after he spied on all of us, and did not apologize for his part in the spying. He just dishonestly casts himself as a hero for blowing the whistle on a malevolent organization, even though he was part of that organization.

Do we let former Nazi officials off simply for condemning their past employer. No way. We punish them (after they've been proven guilty in court beyond a reasonable doubt), and rightfully so.

It's good that he quit and that he condemns his former employer, but when a person does something wrong, even as part of an organization he/she she now rejects, he should be punished for it.
 
Update: ;)

Bolivian leader's plane rerouted on Snowden fear.....

64906b151b607616360f6a7067009355.jpg


The plane carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales home from Russia was rerouted to Austria on Tuesday after France and Portugal refused to let it cross their airspace because of suspicions that NSA leaker Edward Snowden was on board, the country's foreign minister said.

Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca denied that Snowden was on the plane, which landed in Vienna, and said France and Portugal would have to explain why they canceled authorization for the plane.

"We don't know who invented this lie. We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales," Choquehuanca said from Vienna, where the plane landed.

Morales said in an interview with Russia Today television that Bolivia would be willing to consider granting asylum to Snowden.

Snowden, who recently turned 30, withdrew a bid for asylum in Russia when he learned the terms Moscow had set out, according to Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov. Putin said on Monday that Russia was ready to shelter Snowden as long as he stopped leaking U.S. secrets.

At the same time, Putin said he had no plans to turn over Snowden to the United States.....snip~

Bolivian leader's plane rerouted on Snowden fear
Associated Press – 33 mins ago <<<<< More Here.


Looks Like Putin just gave us a finger.....the Middle One! :shock:
 
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