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Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

TheDemSocialist

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CARACAS, July 5 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro offered asylum to former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden on Friday in defiance of Washington, which is demanding his arrest for divulging details of secret U.S. spy programs.
"In the name of America's dignity ... I have decided to offer humanitarian asylum to Edward Snowden," Maduro told a military parade marking Venezuela's independence day.

"He is a young man who has told the truth, in the spirit of rebellion, about the United States spying on the whole world."


Read more @: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/05/snowden-asylum-venezuela_n_3552730.html

I hope he accepts and i hope he finds a way to get to Venezuela!
 

Slyfox696

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Not me. I hope he's brought back to the United States and put on trial. Running away and hiding is cowardly. If he feels this strongly about the wrongs the government was doing, then he should be willing to stand up and fight them.
 

Risky Thicket

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Not me. I hope he's brought back to the United States and put on trial. Running away and hiding is cowardly. If he feels this strongly about the wrongs the government was doing, then he should be willing to stand up and fight them.
Four questions for you:

Do sincerely believe that Snowdon can get an open and honest fair trial in America?

Who do you think is more dangerous to Americans? James Clapper or Edward Snowdon?

Who do you believe is more likely to be truthful to the American People? James Clapper or Edward Snowden?

Who has committed a felony? James Clapper or Edward Snowden?
 

Slyfox696

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Four questions for you:

Do sincerely believe that Snowdon can get an open and honest fair trial in America?
As much as any person can.

Who do you think is more dangerous to Americans? James Clapper or Edward Snowdon?
Don't know, don't care. Irrelevant.

Who do you believe is more likely to be truthful to the American People? James Clapper or Edward Snowden?
Don't know, don't care. They both have their agendas.

Who has committed a felony? James Clapper or Edward Snowden?
Why is it an either/or?
 

Geoist

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Running away and hiding is cowardly.
No, the cowardly thing to do would have been to ignore his conscience and remain quiet so he could keep his six-figure salary and cushy life.
 

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Read more @: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela, President Nicolás Maduro Says

I hope he accepts and i hope he finds a way to get to Venezuela! [/FONT][/COLOR]
Iceland seems to have fallen through. They were going to have a vote on making him a citizen before they went off for the Summer recess but have surprising voted not to do this.

Snowden has applied secretly to six other countries as he says he wants to stop the US from intimidating them.

And how can he travel if even Presidential planes are illegally searched and European countries will not give airspace to a plane that could be hiding him. Spain has said she was told Snowden was definitely on that plane.

When refueling of the plane of a head of State is refused which could have resulted in an air crash and loss of life, how the hell in this world, bought and sold by the US, is he going to get safe passage anywhere?

Maybe the UN will need to say that by the Geneva Convention he needs political asylum and escort him if need be? :shock:
 

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Iceland seems to have fallen through. They were going to have a vote on making him a citizen before they went off for the Summer recess but have surprising voted not to do this.

Snowden has applied secretly to six other countries as he says he wants to stop the US from intimidating them.

And how can he travel if even Presidential planes are illegally searched and European countries will not give airspace to a plane that could be hiding him. Spain has said she was told Snowden was definitely on that plane.

When refueling of the plane of a head of State is refused which could have resulted in an air crash and loss of life, how the hell in this world, bought and sold by the US, is he going to get safe passage anywhere?

Maybe the UN will need to say that by the Geneva Convention he needs political asylum and escort him if need be? :shock:
"...There are no direct commercial flights between Moscow and Caracas, and the usual route involves changing planes in Havana. It is not clear if the Cuban authorities would let him transit.

Given the dramatic grounding in Vienna of the Bolivian president's plane this week over suspicions that Snowden was onboard, using European airspace could prove problematic.

One alternative flight plan would involve an aircraft taking off from Moscow, refueling in Vladivostok, and then continuing east over the Pacific to South America....."

Venezuela offers asylum to U.S. fugitive Snowden
 

NoC_T

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Not me. I hope he's brought back to the United States and put on trial. Running away and hiding is cowardly. If he feels this strongly about the wrongs the government was doing, then he should be willing to stand up and fight them.
Cowards don't speak out against tyrannical government.

How would he fight a government that can legally incarcerate and torture its own citizens, without the possibility of appeal or due process of any kind whatsoever?
 

NoC_T

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As much as any person can.

Don't know, don't care. Irrelevant.

Don't know, don't care. They both have their agendas.

Why is it an either/or?
Oh, right. My bad. I assumed you were being serious.
 

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What I find stunning about the Snowden case is how much of a canary in the coal mines it has served with regards to our respect for privacy. We think nothing of entities like Mark Zuckerberg and Google selling our personal information to corporations, and condemn Snowden for alerting us to flagrant violations of our rights by our government. Where the hell are our priorities?

And calling us Snowden a "coward" is laughable. I wonder how many here who label him thus would so willingly sacrifice their home, family and freedom to stand up for their principles.
 

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What I find stunning about the Snowden case is how much of a canary in the coal mines it has served with regards to our respect for privacy. We think nothing of entities like Mark Zuckerberg and Google selling our personal information to corporations, and condemn Snowden for alerting us to flagrant violations of our rights by our government. Where the hell are our priorities?

And calling us Snowden a "coward" is laughable. I wonder how many here who label him thus would so willingly sacrifice their home, family and freedom to stand up for their principles.
I know, like it can only be courageous if you are willing to be dumbass enough to go to jail for the rest of your life.
 

minnie616

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Coward?
Can't say.
Stupid?
Yes, definitely !
 

Redress

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What I find stunning about the Snowden case is how much of a canary in the coal mines it has served with regards to our respect for privacy. We think nothing of entities like Mark Zuckerberg and Google selling our personal information to corporations, and condemn Snowden for alerting us to flagrant violations of our rights by our government. Where the hell are our priorities?

And calling us Snowden a "coward" is laughable. I wonder how many here who label him thus would so willingly sacrifice their home, family and freedom to stand up for their principles.
We call Snowden a criminal and condemn him because he broke the law, violated his oath and refused to work within the system. Building straw men like you are is a weak argument.
 

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the way i see it, since he was working for a company that was contracted to work for the government, he broke the law and violated the terms of his contract.

funny thing is i see no one calling for punishing the company that was contracted to do the spying in the first place
 

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I'm curious if anyone is familiar with international sanctuary/immunity laws. As long as Snowden is in another country, he's outside of US jurisdiction to be arrested unless the country agrees to extradite him. Venezuela has agreed to offer him asylum but he's in Russia right now. Can Venezuela take custody of Snowden in Russia and transport him to Venezuela over international waters and enjoy a protected status similar to being in an embassy during the trip while in a vessel or aircraft not registered under the US flag or country with an extradition treaty? Can Venezuela offer him diplomatic immunity? Are moving vessels in or above international waters free for the US to seize and/or search as if there were in the US? If he's arrested under such conditions, would he qualify of charge dismissal under a technicality similar to not being read his miranda rights or evidence illegally obtained? Bottom line, is there anyway for Snowden to get to Venezuela legally protected as if he were in an embassy or woud he essentially need to sneak in?

I think Snowden committed treason, my non-expert opinion. I also think since 9/11 and possibly prior, the US government has walked all over the Fourth Amendment in disturbing ways.
 
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RabidAlpaca

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Not me. I hope he's brought back to the United States and put on trial. Running away and hiding is cowardly. If he feels this strongly about the wrongs the government was doing, then he should be willing to stand up and fight them.
So anyone who doesn't want to get locked in a box, tortured, and refused a trial for years is a coward? I think you're full of ****. I guess all of the founding fathers were pieces of **** for not turning themselves into the British government to be hanged.

Ridiculous. You just want to see him burn because you hate what he did, it has NOTHING to do with his "courage".

We call Snowden a criminal and condemn him because he broke the law, violated his oath and refused to work within the system. Building straw men like you are is a weak argument.
If you discovered the government was doing morally wrong, or unconstitutional actions and didn't report it, you'd be a coward. If the government were torturing children in dark rooms, I imagine you'd do something. This "Patriotism and loyalty to the government REGARDLESS of what they do" is absolute bull****.
 

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We call Snowden a criminal and condemn him because he broke the law, violated his oath and refused to work within the system. Building straw men like you are is a weak argument.
It is profoundly disingenuous to complain that he didn't work within the system, when the system was obviously broken.
 

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It is profoundly disingenuous to complain that he didn't work within the system, when the system was obviously broken.
How do you know the system is broken?
 

RabidAlpaca

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I'm curious if anyone is familiar with international sanctuary/immunity laws. As long as Snowden is in another country, he's outside of US jurisdiction to be arrested unless the country agrees to extradite him. Venezuela has agreed to offer him asylum but he's in Russia right now. Can Venezuela take custody of Snowden in Russia and transport him to Venezuela over international waters and enjoy a protected status similar to being in an embassy during the trip while in a vessel or aircraft not registered under the US flag or country with an extradition treaty? Can Venezuela offer him diplomatic immunity? Are moving vessels in or above international waters free for the US to seize and/or search as if there were in the US? If he's arrested under such conditions, would he qualify of charge dismissal under a technicality similar to not being read his miranda rights or evidence illegally obtained? Bottom line, is there anyway for Snowden to get to Venezuela legally protected as if he were in an embassy or woud he essentially need to sneak in?

I think Snowden committed treason, my non-expert opinion. I also think since 9/11 and possibly prior, the US government has walked all over the Fourth Amendment in disturbing ways.
I have to answer your questions with another question: When has the US ever given a flying rat's ass about another nation's sovereignty?
 

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How do you know the system is broken?
Because a FISA court authorized a dragnet spying operation on the American people. Yes, it really does come down to whether you agree with that action or not. If you agree, you think the system is working fine. If you don't, then the system can't be anything but broken.

But, whenever my opposition begs the question and I notice it, I will do likewise.

This 4th, for the first time in years, I felt no patriotism. And it wasn't on account of the government or the FISA courts, or even the betrayal by Obama. I always felt patriotism because I believed in the people, even when the govt was off the rails. The natural state of the American soul is to be suspicious of government power. For the first time in my living memory, the people of America are a complete disappointment. I don't recognize us as the Americans I thought we were.

The people are calling him a coward. BAH! The people are cowards, if they are so fearful of our enemies that they are willing to shatter the underpinnings of those things which keep us free.
 

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Because a FISA court authorized a dragnet spying operation on the American people. Yes, it really does come down to whether you agree with that action or not. If you agree, you think the system is working fine. If you don't, then the system can't be anything but broken.

But, whenever my opposition begs the question and I notice it, I will do likewise.

This 4th, for the first time in years, I felt no patriotism. And it wasn't on account of the government or the FISA courts, or even the betrayal by Obama. I always felt patriotism because I believed in the people, even when the govt was off the rails. The natural state of the American soul is to be suspicious of government power. For the first time in my living memory, the people of America are a complete disappointment. I don't recognize us as the Americans I thought we were.

The people are calling him a coward. BAH! The people are cowards, if they are so fearful of our enemies that they are willing to shatter the underpinnings of those things which keep us free.
So you think the system for reporting issues with classified information is broken because of something entirely unrelated. That makes sense.
 

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How do you know the system is broken?
I would say it is out of control. How did you ever get to the point of killing US citizens without trial even when there is no belief they are about to undertake a murderous activity.

How can you agree to suffering surveillance. Do you know how that works? You mention some word and then they see another word and pretty soon you are 'wanted'.

It is not uncommon even for the CIA and JSOC to be at odds as to who will be killed. Your congress doesn't know what is going on. You have silently become a secret state.

Your foreign policy is horrendous and I think has created a 'self fulfilling prophesy'.

So on both fronts, your treatment of the other is awful but the situation has been set up nicely for you to become a totalitarian state always scared of what you say lest the secret police hear.

Maybe you need to sort both out together. Jeremy Scahill thinks there is a strong likelihood of the US facing much more terrorism on it's soil, not because anyone is a Muslim or is jealous of the US but simply because they have a score to settle for your covert secret operations which you usually do not even hear about. If you keep going it is only going to get worse. As it gets worse more of your freedoms will be taken from you.

P.S. I am aware that the UK is not much better than the US.
 

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So you think the system for reporting issues with classified information is broken because of something entirely unrelated. That makes sense.
The dragnet spying operation was a product of the system, and therefore is entirely related. If you are going to try to tell me that there was some credible system in place to challenge that operation, then don't bother. I have no use for such a sad Hail Mary.
 

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So you think the system for reporting issues with classified information is broken because of something entirely unrelated. That makes sense.
Please, enlighten us about this classified information reporting system. You were/are in the military, you should know a little bit. How easy is it to report a classified decision that a general/admiral made, that the government itself considers legal, but you and many Americans consider illegal?

Can you honestly sit there with a straight face and say "If Edward Snowden had reported this through the proper channels, they would've listened and shut down an expensive NSA program."?

They would've told him to go **** himself.
 

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Please, enlighten us about this classified information reporting system. You were/are in the military, you should know a little bit. How easy is it to report a classified decision that a general/admiral made, that the government itself considers legal, but you and many Americans consider illegal?

Can you honestly sit there with a straight face and say "If Edward Snowden had reported this through the proper channels, they would've listened and shut down an expensive NSA program."?
I did not claim they would shut it down. However, if he had followed the legal procedures, it could be very possible that the actual legality of the program could be reviewed by the judicial branch. That is appropriate. Violating your freely given oaths, not so much.
 
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