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education system is racist/classist

new coup for you said:
we can take this even further.

The Irish, Greek, Slav and Italian enclaves, at least in my experience and i dont see how other cities could deviate enormously, are safer, cleaner and just generally more liveable then the black areas. And yet the have LITERALLY the SAME jobs, schools, and oppertunities as the black neighborhoods. They go to the SAME schools. SAME teachers, classes, books, tests, EVERYTHING.

And yet Patrick, Zachery, Yuri and Tony have to grow up their whole lives hearing about how bad Jamal has it. Jamal lives a block down and in terms of material resources is in the exact same situation...how is this fair?

It's easy to understand why inner city whites just aren't that sympathetic, and are often racist.
I've known a few teachers that worked in larger city school systems. They're just as skilled, if not more so than many in the suburbs. The fact of the matter is, way too often, is the very students that need the education are the ones sabotaging it. When a first grader spells his name (Michael) as p-i-m-p, there's something wrong and it's not the school system. Now, granted, too many administrators look at the bottom line-how much money can they rake in, how to 'look good' without actually putting out any real teaching effort. But that's across the board. The reason those kids hear about how bad 'Jamal has it' has to do with claiming responsibility for one's own actions-unfortunately too often it's the american families, black and white that scream government unfairness instead of being proactive in their children's future.
 
i do beleive there is a problem, but i dont beleive it divides by race. i think it divides by urban versus suburban.

and i think that's essentially the primary political divide in this country right now. i see the suburban and rural lifestyle hostile to my urban lifestyle.

it's why i love crystal meth so much, it's finally a drug that hearts the heartland more then the inner city.
 
new coup for you said:
and i think that's essentially the primary political divide in this country right now. i see the suburban and rural lifestyle hostile to my urban lifestyle.

it's why i love crystal meth so much, it's finally a drug that hearts the heartland more then the inner city.

Only a complete idiot takes meth.....or any hard drug.
 
new coup for you said:
i do beleive there is a problem, but i dont beleive it divides by race. i think it divides by urban versus suburban.

and i think that's essentially the primary political divide in this country right now. i see the suburban and rural lifestyle hostile to my urban lifestyle.

it's why i love crystal meth so much, it's finally a drug that hearts the heartland more then the inner city.

You shall have a long hard road a head of you. I hope you don't have kids. I usually don't say things like that to people, but I am thinking of the unfortunate kids that have to endure the hardships of drug induced parents.
 
Kelzie said:
:lol: That doesn't prove anything. It's hard for musicians to make it anywhere. Including here. If you've got the money to go to college, and decent grades, it's no problem. Don't blame people's lack of success on the system.
His musical talents did not stand alone, he was also a computer whiz, but there seems to be an excess of computer whizzes right now. The 3 girls we know were also discouraged from seeking advanced education or training, which is why they were looking for American husbands. They know that getting an education is a lot easier here where even small cities have community colleges. There is a difference in the "system" between the UK and here.
Talking to the young man, I asked him about his circle of friends back home, as he had a large amount of them compared to what seems to be the norm here. Seems that when there are many young unemployed, they tend to form in groups, almost like support groups. If you don't have a job to go to, you hang out a lot.
 
alphieb said:
You shall have a long hard road a head of you. I hope you don't have kids. I usually don't say things like that to people, but I am thinking of the unfortunate kids that have to endure the hardships of drug induced parents.

i hope you're instilling your children with your own fabulous critical reading skills

I'M not a crystal meth user, i just enjoy its irony
 
new coup for you said:
i hope you're instilling your children with your own fabulous critical reading skills

I'M not a crystal meth user, i just enjoy its irony
So you follow up one stupid comment with another? Meth use isn't funny in any way. Sounds like you like to pull the wings off of butterflys.:roll:
 
new coup for you said:
i'm giving red america the same sympathy it gave me when my home was stricken with crack
Interesting, or it could be, if you can make a connection between a state being red and crack in your home....
 
new coup for you said:
i'm giving red america the same sympathy it gave me when my home was stricken with crack

Grow up and get over it.
 
UtahBill said:
His musical talents did not stand alone, he was also a computer whiz, but there seems to be an excess of computer whizzes right now. The 3 girls we know were also discouraged from seeking advanced education or training, which is why they were looking for American husbands. They know that getting an education is a lot easier here where even small cities have community colleges. There is a difference in the "system" between the UK and here.
Talking to the young man, I asked him about his circle of friends back home, as he had a large amount of them compared to what seems to be the norm here. Seems that when there are many young unemployed, they tend to form in groups, almost like support groups. If you don't have a job to go to, you hang out a lot.

So the problem is that they don't have enough community colleges? The UK's education system is built the same way as the US's. They give everyone an opportunity. Taking the opportunity is up to the individual, and no government can force you to do something. I have a very low opinion of those girls who are looking to marry their way out of trying.
 
Kelzie said:
So the problem is that they don't have enough community colleges? The UK's education system is built the same way as the US's. They give everyone an opportunity. Taking the opportunity is up to the individual, and no government can force you to do something. I have a very low opinion of those girls who are looking to marry their way out of trying.
Talking to a few Brits on another forum, one says that a good university education is a lot more expensive in the UK, another says that isn't so, and if they have the smarts, there are grants available, as there are here. I suppose the limiting factor would be, then, those who don't have good grades, etc. but want to go to college anyway. From some of the people I sat in class with here in the USA, it does seem to be easy to get into publicly funded college here without the best of SAT's. But most of my college was night classes so maybe there are different standards than for those who attend on campus.
The girls weren't trying to marry their way out of trying, but hoping to marry here and have it easier getting into school, jobs, and life in general. Granted we don't have a lot of Brits moving here, but probably more than we have moving there.
You seem particularly testy today, got a big exam coming up?:lol:
 
UtahBill said:
Talking to a few Brits on another forum, one says that a good university education is a lot more expensive in the UK, another says that isn't so, and if they have the smarts, there are grants available, as there are here. I suppose the limiting factor would be, then, those who don't have good grades, etc. but want to go to college anyway. From some of the people I sat in class with here in the USA, it does seem to be easy to get into publicly funded college here without the best of SAT's. But most of my college was night classes so maybe there are different standards than for those who attend on campus.
The girls weren't trying to marry their way out of trying, but hoping to marry here and have it easier getting into school, jobs, and life in general. Granted we don't have a lot of Brits moving here, but probably more than we have moving there.
You seem particularly testy today, got a big exam coming up?:lol:

As a matter of fact, yes. Five of them in fact. It's a happy little time I like to call finals week. And I got an 85 on a paper, so I'm a little bummed. Sorry, didn't mean to take it out on you. I'll try and spread the joy to the rest of the forum. :2wave:
 
Kelzie said:
As a matter of fact, yes. Five of them in fact. It's a happy little time I like to call finals week. And I got an 85 on a paper, so I'm a little bummed. Sorry, didn't mean to take it out on you. I'll try and spread the joy to the rest of the forum. :2wave:
85 isn't bad.
Remember, aiming high and falling a bit short doesn't make you a failure.
(and aiming low and hitting the mark doesn't make you a success)
Somehow I doubt you selectively take just the easy classes.
What is your major?
 
UtahBill said:
85 isn't bad.
Remember, aiming high and falling a bit short doesn't make you a failure.
(and aiming low and hitting the mark doesn't make you a success)
Somehow I doubt you selectively take just the easy classes.
What is your major?

It is in my book. 91's annoy me. They're too close to a "B". It was in a Comparitive Politics class. My major's International Affairs, but I'm thinking of switching to Poly Sci.
 
This has been stated plenty of times, but I wanted to throw my two cents in...I don't believe that America's school systems are racist. I can see the classist viewpoint, however...

shuamort said:
In Minnesota, I would say it could be considered a classist system. Our schools are buoyed up by property taxes. The more affluent suburbs, like Edina for instance, have the better schools. They are able to have a laptop available for every student, smaller class sizes, more extra-curricular activities, etc.

Of course, we don't live in a communist society and those who make or have more money, can afford to spend more on education of their children. Is that classist? Sure.

The point stands for me, if you can't afford to have children and give them what you want or what you think they need. Don't have them.

I attended high school in Prior Lake, Minnesota. You can find families with incomes ranging from middle class to filthy stinkin' rich. When my family first moved to MN from South Carolina, a coworker of my stepfather told him that I'd need a tutor to catch up. Surprise, surprise, I didn't. Why? Because I always worked hard in school, and was taking sophomore level classes in the 8th grade.

Point being, suburban schools and the children that attend them do have an advantage, because they have the money to purchase better equipment and pay their teachers a more substantial salary. Inner city and rural schools do not have this luxury, but that doesn't mean all hope is lost.

If the students are serious about their education, there are other avenues they can pursue. Go to the library and read everything you can. Do extra work in school, not just what is required. Heck, there are even waivers in some areas where you can attend a school even if you don't live closer to another....I had a waiver my last year in high school because I moved out on my own and wanted to graduate with my friends.

Where there's a will, there's a way. No one is to blame for the situation you're in but yourself. If you want to live in the suburbs, work hard, save your money, and buy a new house. If you want a better education, study hard and get it. It has nothing to do with race....there are plenty of white children receiving substandard education, too.

Ultimately, you are in charge of your own future, and it is dependent upon the choices you make today. If you don't like your current situation, don't whine about it...do something about it.
 
Unfair said:
that may be true for some but not all.
you are blaming the victims of a racist/classist society instead of turning the blame where it needs to be, on the system that systemically favors one race over others.

After 31 years of teaching I discovered that communities get the schools they are willing to fight for and support! If parents demand excellent schools, the schools will slowly improve as parental pressure pushes out poor administrators and teachers, and requires high standards of their own students! Lip service and whining doesn't help! Suburban public schools with high %'s of Asian kids are usually quite good because the Asian parents expect more from their children and their teachers! Teachers know they must perform or go to another school that cares less about education!

Much of what we call racist/classist schools are "JUST" schools where people have given up on standards! You get the quality of schools you fight for! Accept nothing but good attitudes from educators and children and schools will turn around! Accept excuses and negativism and they go downhill!

I've seen it before my eyes! The primary factor is the attitude the student brings from his home to school! His parents expectations! It will either inspire teachers to improve, or wear them down with the constant battle to survive in the chaos!
 
How dare you complain our education system being racist against blacks, you must be too black yourself and blinded by black pride to see there's something called affirmative action. Affirmative action already gave you a whole generation of advantages in colleges all around the US, and the program is a failure too, study shows that affirmative actions allows blacks to get into colleges out of their league, resulting in lack of graduation and lowering the # of black lawyers.

The education system is racist against asians, research conducted by Princeton shows if affirmative action was abolished, the % of whilte applicants who would be accepted would increase by a small %, but the # of asians who would be accepted skyrocketed.

the definition of racist here in the US is oppressing a minority, are asians not a minority?

An affirmative action study by Princeton researchers in 2005 attempted to break down and compare the effects of the practice among racial and special groups. The data from the study represent admissions disadvantage and advantage in terms of SAT points (on 1600-point scale):

Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Asians: −50
Recruited athletes: +200
Legacies (children of alumni): +160

One way to gauge the effect of admission preferenceson the composition of entering classes is to consult expert opinion. In 1976-1977 all U.S. law schools were asked how many minority students they had in their first-year classes and how many of these would have been admitted if it had been impossible to detect the racial background of applicants. Respondents believed the number of African-American students would have declined by 82 percent. Only 27 as many Chicano students would have been accepted. Just 28 percent of all minority students, including Asians, would have been admitted under a race-blind procedure

Asian applicants are the biggest winners if race is no longer considered in admission. Nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students would be filled by Asians. We noted earlier Asian candidates are at a disadvantage in admission compared to whites, African-Americans, and Hispanic counter parts.Removing this disadvantage at the same time preferences for African American and Hispanics are eliminated results in a significant gain in the acceptance of Asian students--- from 17.6% to 23.4%. Asians, who comprised 29.5 percent of total applicants in 1997, would make up 31.5% of accepted students in the simulation, compared with an actual 23.7% Other aspects of admitted students, including the distribution of SAT scores and, especially, the proportions of students who are althletes or legacies, are hardly affected by affirmative action.

Hmm asians at a more disadvantage than whites, blacks, and hispanics..

Isn't that racial discrimination?

We have given blacks and latinos enough, if they have poor work and education priorities, it is their fault, not ours. Why do asians not live in the poorest areas? Because they work hard, and don't sit on their butts all day watching televions.

The results of eliminating admission bonuses for African-American and Hispanics applicants would be dramatic. Acceptance rates for African American candidates would fall from 33.7% to 12.2%, a decline of almost two-thirds, and the proportion of African American students in the admitted class would drop from 9.0% to 3.3%. The acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants would be cut in half---from 26.8% to 12.9, and Hispanics would comprise just 3.8% of all admitted students versus an actual proportion of 7.9%.

So many unqualified canidates are admitted into elite colleges because they are black/hispanic, for almost 30-40 years now, is it not enough?

Another reason for the failure in the education system is the system itself, an earlier post of mine summarizing the lastest 20/20.

'm watching 20/20 with John Strossel, and it shows the failure and corruption of the US school system, 20 minutes in, it showed me a lot. A black kid, 18, who can't read. There was a test that was given to norwegian kids in a high school and then american kids in a high school, and how they raped us. The NOrwegians got 76%, while the US kids got a total of 47%, and the top scorer in the Norwegian class said, "If the American kids can't get this, they're really stupid."

A blonde girl with glasses failed to answer why the civil war was started, and they showed some clips from Jay Leno's jaywalking, which is not staged and it's real, they pick random people off the street. A guy is asked what are the bill of rights, and he doesn't know!

Back to the 18 year old black kid, after spending 72 hours with Sylvan Learning center, he went from from a first grade reading level and upgraded two grades, again proving that private organizations with actual work stimulation will perform better than government funded and controlled programs.

Also, money is not the problem, as proven by a middle school in Oakland, who with a new principle that used an unorthodox technique to encourage better learning in children(giving children dollar bills), and they use less money but get significantly better scores than other middle schools in Oakland.

Now I'm watching a clip on the Fremont District, CUSD, it's a very good district(my hometown), it's highlighted that it's so good many people lie about where they live.

Now to Belguim, instead of attaching the money to the schools, they attack the money to the child. Each child get's a certain amount of money, and they get to choose which school they go to, which is payed by the government. The money is not attached to each school, but each child, they can go to a state runned school, a catholic school, or a muslim school.

If a school is failing, they'll run out of business, therefore it fosters schools to teach better which result in better educated children and efficient use of money.

It get's even worse, the system is failing so horribly, outright corruption has seduced the greedy and selfish owners who depend on student scores to earn their paycheck, instead of trying to change their failing arrangements, they cheat and orders the teachers to let the students cheat, producing a better score. Because of the no child left behind policy, teachers are telling students to cheat so they can pass onto the next grade..

In European schools, multiple languages are required, I don't understand why multiple languages is even an elective here.. it should be implemented from the beginning of grade school..

No Choice: Our schools are designated by living area, no choice, whereas in Europeans have choices, the governer of South Carolina is proposing that because his kids were almost affected by our failing system, his kids went to a private school.

A monopoly service system is communism, Mr. Stossels went to the soviet union watched in a restaurant as waiters talked while he was waiting to be served, because of the lack of incentives, or no fear of punishments, the performance and efficiency will decrease, when there are choices, customers suddenly matter. (Look at all the cell phone ads).

None of our policies in government owned businesses have motivations for their workers to be more proficient in their position.

Another problem is the unions, a union monopoly is very influential, In union schools, they accept mediocre teachers in union districts, the New York distict has a teacher who send sex messaged via email to a 16 year old student, the union has created a maze of protection for the teachers, it is immensely hard for a principal to fire an inproficient teacher.

The owner of GE has an ingenius system who pays his employees based on the merit of their work, but in our public school system, no bonuses..

Teacher unions spend millions on propoganda to brainwash the people on how successful our public school system is. Teachers work the uniformed 6 hours 10 minutes, how many people work that low in hours?

The children are the victim, few children are as lucky as I to live in a very successful school district, but millions are suffering due to the failure of the monopoly system that controls our education system.

We need a massive reform, I hope before GW goes in 3 years, he will think about the children.

When the public school system started, most people worked on farms, nowadays, less than 2% work on farms, but our schools haven't changed much.

Huge unions are fighting hard to maintain the statis quo, and charter schools are popping up, unrestricted by union rules, charter students are more successful, only the best teacher stayed, many are fired, and the good results are obvious. Bonuses are given to the best teachers. The schools are so great, they hold lotteries to see who gets into this school.

Competition makes everything better, would you got to a restaurant that fed you crap? Or a barber that desecrated your hair? What if you were forced to go back? Our founding fathers fought for freedom of choice, why are we not doing that today?

The florida supreme court overturned a ruling that would give fund to private schools, this disappoints me, those living in florida, either if you're a kid or will have/have children, your courts are screwing you.


Test:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/geosurvey/index.html

The results sadden me, the only question in which US students outscored the children of most other countries is questioning our knowledge of a tropical storm that changes the weather dramitically, the El nino..

Source: 20/20, ABC, 10 PM. Friday, the 13 of January.


The only country that took part in the National Geographics test with a lower score than the US is Mexico....
 
Unfair said:
white kids in the suburbs and wealthy neighborhoods get better educations simply because of where they live. whereas inner city kids, majority of which are nonwhite, get a poor education.
conservatives like to put bandaids on deep issues like this and simply bus innercity kids to lilly white schools like that solves everything.
solution: everybody gets the same education. where you live should have nothing to do with the quality of education you recieve. it's not fair that minorities don't get the same chance as white kids based on their class.
on the collegiate level, Black colleges are severely underfunded. wonder why?


Baloney! Washington D.C. spends more perchild than any school system in the USA and it sucks. I live in New Jersey in a town that gets extra state aid for its schools because their Urban and minority, and they suck.
The one thing that ties all these school districts together.There run by liberals,probably democrats.
Did anyone ever think that this is no accident.That there is an institutional plan to keep minorities uneducated and beholding so they stay where they belong supporting liberal democrats.
If these kids started to actualy get educated they might succed in life and than have things to protect and than, scariest of all they might become Republ;icans.
 
JOHNYJ said:
Baloney! Washington D.C. spends more perchild than any school system in the USA and it sucks. I live in New Jersey in a town that gets extra state aid for its schools because their Urban and minority, and they suck.
The one thing that ties all these school districts together.There run by liberals,probably democrats.
Did anyone ever think that this is no accident.That there is an institutional plan to keep minorities uneducated and beholding so they stay where they belong supporting liberal democrats.
If these kids started to actualy get educated they might succed in life and than have things to protect and than, scariest of all they might become Republ;icans.

Riiggghttt...it's all one big conspiracy to keep the man down. :roll:
 
Kelzie said:
Riiggghttt...it's all one big conspiracy to keep the man down. :roll:


Just think of this logicaly.The time and money spent .Billions,NYC is so desperate they are considering an attendance diploma all it will say is that you went to school for 12 years.It won't claim any academic ability.Its almost sickening.
Again what can explain the utter failure of Urban public education ?
 
Unfair said:
that may be true for some but not all.
you are blaming the victims of a racist/classist society instead of turning the blame where it needs to be, on the system that systemically favors one race over others.
Where is that written? This is a good talking point but essentially baseless.
 
So inner city schools "PREVENT" Students from learning stuff like
calculus, physics, and Biology? And the "DON'T" provide honor-classes?

I have seen seriously disable people bust their *** to become very
successful and go to good colleges. And I have see people that barely
speak English get better grades in English classes the most English
speaking students. And if any child works that hard they will succeed.


You should take off your "The world is racist" glasses and work hard
for you and yours. Because the world is unfair! and nobody gets free
hand outs, not even white people.

And of course if community "A" has Dr's, Engineers, lawyers, and
well to-do college educated parents, and community "B" has poor,
drug/alcohol dependant, X-cons, and high school drop outs than
yes the schools in community "A" will produce better equip students.
Sad but true.
 
Mr. D said:
After 31 years of teaching I discovered that communities get the schools they are willing to fight for and support! If parents demand excellent schools, the schools will slowly improve as parental pressure pushes out poor administrators and teachers, and requires high standards of their own students! Lip service and whining doesn't help! Suburban public schools with high %'s of Asian kids are usually quite good because the Asian parents expect more from their children and their teachers! Teachers know they must perform or go to another school that cares less about education!

I was with you 100% until you mentioned the Asian kids. It's a bit of a
stereotype. As much as me saying they all play the violin at age 7.

I agree suburban schools do generally better than inner-city school systems.
I live in the 'burbs with an excellent school system, rated one of the best
in state year after year. Why? Because we are willing to vote with our
wallets by providing our kids with every advantage. The school system
wanted a performing arts center, put it on the ballot and it got approved.
They wanted new gym equipment and track -- approved. Library and
technology center expansion -- approved. But these are all nothing more
than infrastructure improvements. They do little in the way students
buckling down and learning --- it's the parents making them do their
homework and study for tests.

I'm not bragging. I'm just pointing out the race of the kids has nothing to
do with it. Maybe the Asian parents gravitate to the 'burbs knowing the
schools are better overall and they're willing to pay the taxes for that
education. Maybe.

Taxes provide infrastructure, nothing more. Teachers provide the
knowledge and discipline within the confines of the classroom. Parents
must provide the discipline and foster the learning environment from
home.

I know the inevitable argument will be "but shouldn't every kid have that
advantage?" Yes. But trying to provide these advantages to school
districts where parents simply don't care, as you've often pointed out,
is money down the drain. Example: Cleveland spends as much, if not
more, than we do in the 'burbs per student. Yet the Cleveland schools
are the worst in the state. Point: It's not the money. We as taxpayers
could pour a billion dollars into the school system downtown. You know
what we'd have? A billion dollars worth of near empty buildings.

If Johnny can't read when he graduates maybe we should be putting the
parents, both - married or not, in jail. The crime committed is one of
neglect rather than the school system as a whole.

This is not to say the system couldn't use some overhaul, it could. The
entire system (parents, student, teachers and infrastructure) needs to
be looked at as an interdependent organism, figuratively speaking.

Gee, is this me talking? I may be seeing things in a whole new light.
 
Last edited:
Good post XShipRider.

To add some interesting information to the part about Cleveland. The schools in my city are some of the best in the state also. And the city is very close to the west side of Cleveland.

So often times students will move from Cleveland into the school district. Yet those students now having the 'advantage' of a suburban school still perform poorly and cause trouble. That just reiterates the point that its not entirely the fault of the schools. The people need to be willing to learn.
 
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