• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

education system is racist/classist

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
white kids in the suburbs and wealthy neighborhoods get better educations simply because of where they live. whereas inner city kids, majority of which are nonwhite, get a poor education.
conservatives like to put bandaids on deep issues like this and simply bus innercity kids to lilly white schools like that solves everything.
solution: everybody gets the same education. where you live should have nothing to do with the quality of education you recieve. it's not fair that minorities don't get the same chance as white kids based on their class.
on the collegiate level, Black colleges are severely underfunded. wonder why?
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
white kids in the suburbs and wealthy neighborhoods get better educations simply because of where they live. whereas inner city kids, majority of which are nonwhite, get a poor education.
conservatives like to put bandaids on deep issues like this and simply bus innercity kids to lilly white schools like that solves everything.
solution: everybody gets the same education. where you live should have nothing to do with the quality of education you recieve. it's not fair that minorities don't get the same chance as white kids based on their class.
on the collegiate level, Black colleges are severely underfunded. wonder why?
Because inner city parents are spending their time watching TV instead of being involved with their childrens education?
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
that may be true for some but not all.
you are blaming the victims of a racist/classist society instead of turning the blame where it needs to be, on the system that systemically favors one race over others.
 

Calm2Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
3,967
Reaction score
7
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Lets remeber how much suburban parents are paying evrey single year in taxes to make sure there kids are getting an education. And lets remember that many teachers don't want to teach in the inner city. Not because they are racist or don't care but because being mugged, shot, raped or robbed is not there idea of a healthy teaching environment. This environment is in place because of one thing... The students that perptrate these crimes. I can bet you white people are not in there making these poor inner city kids shoot at each other and there teachers. Don't forget that these rotten suburban parents are involved in there kids education and life in most cases to some degree. Schools are not there to raise your children thats what the parents are for. And of you act like an animal then you get treated as such. The failure is a parental one, lets stop blaming everybody but those that deserve it most. School system and education are the product of the families and neighborhoods they represent.
 

Calm2Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
3,967
Reaction score
7
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Unfair said:
that may be true for some but not all.
you are blaming the victims of a racist/classist society instead of turning the blame where it needs to be, on the system that systemically favors one race over others.
Whoa is me... so much easier to blame everything on someone else isn't it....
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
let's first remember that whites are in subrubs NOT because they earned it but because it was a govt. hand out. don't believe me? look it up.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Unfair said:
let's first remember that whites are in subrubs NOT because they earned it but because it was a govt. hand out. don't believe me? look it up.
Umm, I'm gonna vote for "don't believe you". My parents moved from the inner-city to the 'burbs in the early 70s. They built a house and paid it in full without any government hand-outs for them or anyone in the neighborhood.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
that may be true for some but not all.
you are blaming the victims of a racist/classist society instead of turning the blame where it needs to be, on the system that systemically favors one race over others.
Our society is nowhere near as racist as it was 40 years ago. Minorities have certain advantages now that poor whites do not get as easily. The big issue is class. The rich and powerful tend to be selfish, not wanting to share with the lesser among us. BUT, that does not mean that you cannot have a good income and a happy life.
My post high school education had to be done in the military. College was out of the question. But, out of all my years of active duty, I got 3 years of the best technical training available. Of course, in order to get the military technical schools, I had to qualify by getting good grades on their tests. Good thing for me that I took all the advanced science and math classes that I could get while in high school. Most of those were not required, it was just smart of me to take them anyway.
My wife and I are not millionaires, despite all our combined education and income over the last 40 years, but we are well off compared to most. She has a bachelors and 2 masters paid for by me, I have my Navy schools and 3 years of college on the GI bill. My 3 years took 8 years to accomplish, as I attended school part time while I worked full time from the day we were married, until just recently when I retired. We were able to pay for our 2 children's college as well, so they are starting off better than we did.
The fact that some others have more, and obtained it more easily, never entered into our minds. You get out of life what you put into it, and we worked hard for what we have.
You can do the same. All it takes is a bit of personal sacrifice, getting some education after high school, getting a good job according to the education you accomplished for yourself, saving money for your future, spending the rest of it wisely, and keep at it for 35-40 years until you have achieved a level of financial security that allows you to retire.
Certainly if you are waiting for someone to come along and hand it to you, well, don't hold your breath.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
let's first remember that whites are in subrubs NOT because they earned it but because it was a govt. hand out. don't believe me? look it up.
You are the one making the unsubstantiated and likely totally untrue statement, so you should provide some links. Otherwise, you have no argument.
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
everything I type goes in one ear and out the other so I'm telling you guys to look it up yourself.
under the servicemen's readjustment act of 44, suburbs were built for whites and whites only while people of color had to live in cities in highrises. people of color did not get the chance to live in the burbs based on them being nonwhite. the whites in the burbs only had to pay 10-20% and the govt and bank paid the rest. talk about a BOOST.
so when you see people of color in "hoods" it is not because of them, the govt. systemaically gave a huge advantage to whites and didn't give that to nonwhites.
and the govt. has taken no action to reverse this or level the playing field at all. and people of color still have a hard time buying homes in the burbs.
i have more to say but i wont if it's falling on deaf ears.
again, research this.
and with that gi bill of 44, Black soliders did not get to live in the burbs. this advantage was for whites.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
everything I type goes in one ear and out the other so I'm telling you guys to look it up yourself.
under the servicemen's readjustment act of 44, suburbs were built for whites and whites only while people of color had to live in cities in highrises. people of color did not get the chance to live in the burbs based on them being nonwhite. the whites in the burbs only had to pay 10-20% and the govt and bank paid the rest. talk about a BOOST.
so when you see people of color in "hoods" it is not because of them, the govt. systemaically gave a huge advantage to whites and didn't give that to nonwhites.
and the govt. has taken no action to reverse this or level the playing field at all. and people of color still have a hard time buying homes in the burbs.
i have more to say but i wont if it's falling on deaf ears.
again, research this.
and with that gi bill of 44, Black soliders did not get to live in the burbs. this advantage was for whites.
Well, finally some meat and potatoes. But how does that relate to now? This is 2005, not 1944. Your grandparents were denied an equal chance, but that has little to do with you 61 years later. If you are black, and in school, even a bad school, it is up to you to make the difference in what is being "denied" you.
There are poor whites in Appalachia who are in the same boat, and some of them make it despite their situation. Or don't you have it in you to strive for something better than the status quo?
I have worked with many blacks over the years who did it, but somehow they just knew they could. What specifically is holding you back at this very moment?
 

alphieb

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
31
Location
Vincennes IN
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Why does everything have to do with racism? Race does not even enter my radar screen. I don't see anyone any different than myself.
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
it relates to now because there is still housing discrimination that nonwhites face to this day. as a result of that boost, many whites live out in nice suburbs while a lot of Blacks live in the cities. Education systems rely heavily on where you live and if you're from a low class neighborhood, the prop. tax isn't high therefore a lot of money is not pumped in therefore giving minorities poor education while wealthy white suburbs get quality education.
this is not fair and leads to whites having more opportunities and nonwhites not and having to work 10x as hard.
are you following me?
why should the weight be put on that individual when the SYSTEM messed it all up and made things very unfair?
whites got a boost without earning so why can't Blacks get the same?
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
alphieb said:
Why does everything have to do with racism? Race does not even enter my radar screen. I don't see anyone any different than myself.
but the system does so you need to wake up.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Unfair said:
everything I type goes in one ear and out the other so I'm telling you guys to look it up yourself.
under the servicemen's readjustment act of 44, suburbs were built for whites and whites only while people of color had to live in cities in highrises. people of color did not get the chance to live in the burbs based on them being nonwhite. the whites in the burbs only had to pay 10-20% and the govt and bank paid the rest. talk about a BOOST.
so when you see people of color in "hoods" it is not because of them, the govt. systemaically gave a huge advantage to whites and didn't give that to nonwhites.
and the govt. has taken no action to reverse this or level the playing field at all. and people of color still have a hard time buying homes in the burbs.
i have more to say but i wont if it's falling on deaf ears.
again, research this.
and with that gi bill of 44, Black soliders did not get to live in the burbs. this advantage was for whites.
Here's the full transcript of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 44. Please show me where it's claiming your statement:
Servicemen's Readjustment Act (1944)
AN ACT
To provide Federal Government aid for the readjustment in civilian life of returning World War II veterans.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Repre8entatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That this Act may be cited as the "Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944".

TITLE I
CHAPTER I-HOSPITALIZATION, CLAIMS, AND PROCEDURES

SEC. 100. The Veterans' Administration is hereby declared to be an essential war agency and entitled, second only to the War and Navy Departments, to priorities in personnel, equipment, supplies, and material under any laws, Executive orders, and regulations pertaining to priorities, and in appointments of personnel from civil-service registers the Administrator of Veterans' Affairs is hereby granted the same authority and discretion as the War and Navy Departments and the United States Public Health Service: Provided, That the provisions of this section as to priorities for materials shall apply to any State institution to be built for the care or hospitalization of veterans.

SEC. 101. The Administrator of Veterans' Affairs and the Federal Board of Hospitalization are hereby authorized and directed to expedite and complete the construction of additional hospital facilities for war veterans, and to enter into agreements and contracts for the use by or transfer to the Veterans' Administration of suitable Army and Navy hospitals after termination of hostilities in the present war or after such institutions are no longer needed by the armed services; and the Administrator of Veterans Affairs is hereby authorized and directed to establish necessary regional offices, sub- offices, branch offices, contact units, or other subordinate offices in centers of population where there is no Veterans' Administration facility, or where such a facility is not readily available or accessible : Provided, That there is hereby authorized to be appropriated the sum of $500,000,000 for the construction of additional hospital facilities.

SEC. 102. The Administrator of Veterans' Affairs and the Secretary of War and Secretary of the Navy are hereby granted authority to enter into agreements and contracts for the mutual use or exchange of use of hospital and domiciliary facilities, and such supplies, equipment, and material as may be needed to operate properly such facilities, or for the transfer, without reimbursement of appropriations, of facilities, supplies, equipment, or material necessary and proper for authorized care for veterans, except that at no time shall the Administrator of Veterans' Affairs enter into any agreement which will result in a permanent reduction of Veterans' Administration hospital and domiciliary beds below the number now established or approved, plus the estimated number required to meet the load of eligibles under laws administered by the Veterans' Administration, or in any way subordinate or transfer the operation of the Veterans' Administration to any other agency of the Government.

Nothing in the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940, as amended, or any other Act, shall be construed to prevent the transfer or detail of any commissioned, appointed or enlisted personnel from the armed forces to the Veterans Administration subject to agreements between the Secretary of War or the Secretary of the Navy and the Administrator of Veterans' Affairs: Provided, That no such detail shall be made or extend beyond six months after the termination of the war.

SEC.103. The Administrator of Veterans' Affairs shall have authority to place officials and employees designated by him in such Army and Navy installations as may be deemed advisable for the purpose of adjudicating disability claims of, and giving aid and advice to, members of the Army and Navy who are about to be discharged or released from active service.

SEC. 104. No person shall be discharged or released from active duty in the armed forces until his certificate of discharge or release from active duty and final pay, or a substantial portion thereof, are ready for delivery to him or to his next of kin or legal representative; and no person shall be discharged or released from active service on account of disability until and unless he has executed a claim for compensation, pension, or hospitalization, to be filed with the Veterans' Administration or has signed a statement that he has had explained to him the right to file such claim: Provided, That this section shall not preclude immediate transfer to a veterans' facility for necessary hospital care, nor preclude the discharge of any person who refuses to sign such claim or statement: And provided further, That refusal or failure to file a claim shall be without prejudice to any right the veteran may subsequently assert.

Any person entitled to a prosthetic appliance shall be entitled, in addition, to necessary fitting and training, including institutional training, in the use of such appliance, whether in a Service or a Veterans' Administration hospital, or by out-patient treatment, including such service under contract.

SEC. 105. No person in the armed forces shall be required to sign a statement of any nature relating to the origin, incurrence, or aggravation of any disease or injury he may have, and any such statement against his own interest signed at any time, shall be null and void and of no force and effect.
Ronald Roach wrote, "Clearly, the G.I. Bill was a crack in the wall of racism that had surrounded the American university system. It forced predominately white colleges to allow a larger number of blacks to enroll, contributed to a more diverse curriculum at many HBCUs, and helped provide a foundation for the gradual growth of the black middle class." Not only did the G.I. Bill provide the foundation for the black middle class, it educated the generation of African Americans who would help spearhead the civil rights movement in the 1960s. (Source: "From Combat to Campus: G.I. Bill Gave a Generation of African Americans and Opportunity to Pursue the American Dream," Black Issues in Higher Education, (August 21, 1997), 26-29.)
 

alphieb

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
31
Location
Vincennes IN
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Unfair said:
it relates to now because there is still housing discrimination that nonwhites face to this day. as a result of that boost, many whites live out in nice suburbs while a lot of Blacks live in the cities. Education systems rely heavily on where you live and if you're from a low class neighborhood, the prop. tax isn't high therefore a lot of money is not pumped in therefore giving minorities poor education while wealthy white suburbs get quality education.
this is not fair and leads to whites having more opportunities and nonwhites not and having to work 10x as hard.
are you following me?
why should the weight be put on that individual when the SYSTEM messed it all up and made things very unfair?
whites got a boost without earning so why can't Blacks get the same?
I think blacks are just as smart as whites and can succeed at whatever they desire. I can't imagine an intelligent white person being racist. It actually makes me sick.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
but the system does so you need to wake up.
The system, for a long time now, gives minorities an advantage when it comes to getting into college. Of course, you have to prepare yourself for going to college. Or should we just issue you a diploma, allow you to call yourself a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc, and then pay you accordingly?
Every successful black engineer, technician, etc. that I ever worked with will tell you that he got that way despite the efforts of his friends who bad mouthed him by calling him "Oreo" or some other derogatory term. They will also tell you that the attitudes of their friends were what kept them in the inner city. One even said that his black friends of his younger days now resent his success, even tho they could have done the same thing, if they had only applied themselves.
Seems to me that the "system" works for those who put forth a little effort in their own behalf. Worked for them as well as this poor white boy from the sticks with no family connections, and no influential friends to help me along.:2wave:

Again, what specifically is holding you back?:confused:
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
alphieb said:
I think blacks are just as smart as whites and can succeed at whatever they desire. I can't imagine an intelligent white person being racist. It actually makes me sick.
I would venture off to say Blacks are smarter but it will come off as offensive. and yes you're right, intelligent whites are not racist and they accept full responsiblity for what their ancestors did because they know all about white privliedge and how they benefit at people of color's expense.
i haven't met too many intelligent whites but there are few. they are a rare breed.
it takes whites a very long time to come into terms with it. many are much older before they finally realize the truth. and some never do.
look around this site.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Unfair said:
I would venture off to say Blacks are smarter but it will come off as offensive. and yes you're right, intelligent whites are not racist and they accept full responsiblity for what their ancestors did because they know all about white privliedge and how they benefit at people of color's expense.
i haven't met too many intelligent whites but there are few. they are a rare breed.
it takes whites a very long time to come into terms with it. many are much older before they finally realize the truth. and some never do.
look around this site.
If you've got scientific proof that certain races have the ability to have greater intelligence than others, I'd love to see it.
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
research melanin. and also timbuktu.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Unfair said:
research melanin. and also timbuktu.
Let's see, I've already shot down your theory that the 44 GI Bill was racist and you have yet to refute my claims that it is. Now you're make more spurious/dubious claims and refusing to provide back-up. These are your claims, you provide proof that we can analyze. This is debate, not random ill-informed rantings.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
I would venture off to say Blacks are smarter but it will come off as offensive. and yes you're right, intelligent whites are not racist and they accept full responsiblity for what their ancestors did because they know all about white privliedge and how they benefit at people of color's expense.
i haven't met too many intelligent whites but there are few. they are a rare breed.
it takes whites a very long time to come into terms with it. many are much older before they finally realize the truth. and some never do.
look around this site.
Smart is not the same as intelligent.
Yes, blacks suffered at the hands of whites, but do some research into history, and you will find that there were blacks enslaving blacks long before, and after, their experience in the Americas.
Again, it is OLD history. The percentage of white racists today is a very small number compared to 30 or 40 years ago. Seems that the number of black racists might be increasing, tho.
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I saw a movie all about it. I'll try and get you the name. I know what the act was and more importantly who it benefitted. You can throw that dressed up FLITH at someone else.
 

Unfair

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
5
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
UtahBill said:
Smart is not the same as intelligent.
Yes, blacks suffered at the hands of whites, but do some research into history, and you will find that there were blacks enslaving blacks long before, and after, their experience in the Americas.
Again, it is OLD history. The percentage of white racists today is a very small number compared to 30 or 40 years ago. Seems that the number of black racists might be increasing, tho.
African slavery was not the same as european slavery. european slavery was far WORSE. don't even try it
there just as many racists as before if not more. they just aren't walking around in hoods anymore, they have business suits on now. your thinking is very naive and ignorant.
and nonwhites cannot be racist.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfair said:
African slavery was not the same as european slavery. european slavery was far WORSE. don't even try it
there just as many racists as before if not more. they just aren't walking around in hoods anymore, they have business suits on now. your thinking is very naive and ignorant.
and nonwhites cannot be racist.
and you would know this how? there is no written history on Africa to speak of prior to the European incursion to get slaves, and the actual rounding of of the slaves was done by local blacks, or did you not know that?

You have just proven yourself to be the most ignorant of all racists, by saying that nonwhites cannot be racist. You have your own distorted definition of racism, one geared to your own agenda. That is the highest form of ignorance and bigotry.
I suppose you don't like Bill Cosby, right?
 
Top Bottom