Easy $ for all 18-yr olds to go to college, but nothing else

[Neomalthusian]

Ran across an article in Forbes that struck a chord with me:

One thing that progressives should be outraged about, but are not, is that the federal government will lend an 18-year-old $20,000 to go to college, but not to (say) buy a used truck to start his own moving business.

Many of the young people that are automatically forced out of foster care programs when they turn 18 become homeless. This is because, even if they have a job, they do not have the money for the deposit required to rent an apartment.

It’s time for conservatives to become outraged at the waste of human potential caused by the unavailability of capital to young people starting their adult lives. Despite what President Obama seems to think, not everyone can or should go to college. Young people with skills and interests that are not suited to college also deserve access to the capital required for them to become economically productive.

Capitalism is all about capital, and no one can be economically productive without access to at least some capital.

Conservatives Are Missing The Point On Welfare Reform - Forbes

 

[specklebang]

So are you suggesting a car loan instead of a student loan? I see some problems with this but I'd like to hear your POV.

 

[Neomalthusian]

So are you suggesting a car loan instead of a student loan?

You took this very literally/concretely. Was that all you gathered from this idea?

I'm suggesting what this author said is worth a bit of thought: if government will lend public money to 18-year olds for college with the idea it will improve their lives and make them more able to pay the money back, why is it only for college, to study any damned thing? If our goal is getting people (especially the downtrodden) up and running, productive, and more socially mobile, why are we dishing out tons of student loans to people who maybe shouldn't even be in college, no loans to young people for any actually economically productive activities, and then tons of welfare after the scheme fails for half of them or more?

 

[penn1954]

You took this very literally/concretely. Was that all you gathered from this idea?

I'm suggesting what this author said is worth a bit of thought: if government will lend public money to 18-year olds for college with the idea it will improve their lives and make them more able to pay the money back, why is it only for college, to study any damned thing? If our goal is getting people (especially the downtrodden) up and running, productive, and more socially mobile, why are we dishing out tons of student loans to people who maybe shouldn't even be in college, no loans to young people for any actually economically productive activities, and then tons of welfare after the scheme fails for half of them or more?

I see your point perfectly and am in agreement as far as it goes,
but I don't want the feds making loans of any sort.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I see your point perfectly and am in agreement as far as it goes,
but I don't want the feds making loans of any sort.

In theory, I don't either, but they already do, wastefully, even as default rates rise above graduation rates, and then dish out oodles of welfare on top of it later on down the road.

We're obviously doing it all wrong.

 

[soot]

If our goal is getting people (especially the downtrodden) up and running, productive, and more socially mobile, why are we dishing out tons of student loans to people who maybe shouldn't even be in college, no loans to young people for any actually economically productive activities, and then tons of welfare after the scheme fails for half of them or more?

I don't know that that argument holds a whole lot of water.

It's one thing to decide you don't want to go to school.

It's another thing to decide that instead you're going to open your own moving or landscaping service.

It's something else altogether different to start-up a small business with no real experience in the workforce and no education and turn it in to something profitable. That's a pretty tall order even with experience and education.

If you think the default rate is high on college loans I can't even begin to imagine what they'd be if we started giving every 18-year-old who asked for one a loan to try his hand at being the proprietor of his very own head shop.

When you look at the average income of a college grad compared to the average income of someone with a high school diploma, or even at the expected lifetime earnings of the same groups, on average the college grad group is much more likely to ever be in a position to realistically pay back a loan.

Now, I agree that we're much to free as a society handing out college loans to every Tom, Dick, and Sally that "thinks" they want to go to college.

I think there should be at least some qualitative standards associated with loan approval.

But I don't think that the answer to a bad, overly-generous policy is to trump it with an even worse policy.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I don't know that that argument holds a whole lot of water.

It's one thing to decide you don't want to go to school.

It's another thing to decide that instead you're going to open your own moving or landscaping service.

It's something else altogether different to start-up a small business with no real experience in the workforce and no education and turn it in to something profitable. That's a pretty tall order even with experience and education.

If you think the default rate is high on college loans I can't even begin to imagine what they'd be if we started giving every 18-year-old who asked for one a loan to try his hand at being the proprietor of his very own head shop.

When you look at the average income of a college grad compared to the average income of someone with a high school diploma, or even at the expected lifetime earnings of the same groups, on average the college grad group is much more likely to ever be in a position to realistically pay back a loan.

Now, I agree that we're much to free as a society handing out college loans to every Tom, Dick, and Sally that "thinks" they want to go to college.

I think there should be at least some qualitative standards associated with loan approval.

But I don't think that the answer to a bad, overly-generous policy is to trump it with an even worse policy.

I guess I assumed a business loan would also have its own qualitative standards. Easy credit causes bubbles and defaults.

 

[specklebang]

You took this very literally/concretely. Was that all you gathered from this idea?

I'm suggesting what this author said is worth a bit of thought: if government will lend public money to 18-year olds for college with the idea it will improve their lives and make them more able to pay the money back, why is it only for college, to study any damned thing? If our goal is getting people (especially the downtrodden) up and running, productive, and more socially mobile, why are we dishing out tons of student loans to people who maybe shouldn't even be in college, no loans to young people for any actually economically productive activities, and then tons of welfare after the scheme fails for half of them or more?

Please don't be defensive. I asked a real question and I hoped for an answer. I did take you literally because I;m being respectful and wanted to know what you were proposing so I could agree or disagree with you.

So, I got you don't think student loans are the perfect answer. So what are you suggesting instead?

 

[Neomalthusian]

Please don't be defensive. I asked a real question and I hoped for an answer. I did take you literally because I;m being respectful and wanted to know what you were proposing so I could agree or disagree with you.

So, I got you don't think student loans are the perfect answer. So what are you suggesting instead?

Harder credit for overpriced college and maybe more options for similar credit to be applied toward non-college economically productive endeavors. I realize this is a generalized response.

 

[specklebang]

Harder credit for overpriced college and maybe more options for similar credit to be applied toward non-college economically productive endeavors. I realize this is a generalized response.

Overpriced is a relative term. My own reaction in the past was why lend somebody $100K to get a degree in Medieval Lit but even that has a place in society.

Usually, a good business plan can get you a loan from Uncle Elmer or even a bank. The SBA loan is not that different from a Student Loan. But anybody can study anything whereas a business plan is much harder to formulate. Also, you can switch your major but many businesses are succeed or fail.

I'm not knocking your concept, I just want to understand it well enough to rip off your idea and claim it's mine:roll:

 

[justabubba]

Ran across an article in Forbes that struck a chord with me:

bogus argument by forbes
that 18 year old who cannot qualify to get into college cannot receive the federal monies
the 18 had to at least qualify for a college experience to then qualify for a loan

and that 18 year old who wanted to borrow money using federal backing could receive it with an SBA guaranty - IF the 18 year old was qualified to begin a business. meaning, had a business plan that made sense and had some skin in the enterprise, much as the students who invested time in their studies in order to get into college had

 

[Diving Mullah]

Ran across an article in Forbes that struck a chord with me:

That is actually extremely a one dimensional thinking. Bank loan money in the interest of making more money. The loan for going to college is in away investing in the country's most precious resources which is Human resources and NOT FOR THE SAKE OF PROFIT in terms of Dollars. Moving business are fine and dandy but this country more than movers needs engineers, scientist, doctors, painters, artist, authors.... and yes investing your tax dollars in the humans resources will have 10 plus fold return. While we here in US has been discouraging people from going to college and earn engineering or doctorate in sciences, other countries have been investing heavily in their human resource. Now we are at point of we can't find good qualified engineers to fill out the jobs and along with other crap from china and India we have import engineers and doctors.

Diving Mullah