Easy answer to illegal immigration?

[natsb]

As with the others, you have only assumptions concerning the illegals...but precisely zero understanding. There's no hardship that we can impose on them here (short of what Germany did in the 1930's e.g. sending armed brownshirts door-to-door demanding "papers, please") that would force them to go home - they're not going anywhere. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no clue just how strong their drive and determination is.

So if we can't get rid of them - and anyone who thinks we can is living in a dreamworld - then we have to look for other solutions. The Serenity Prayer applies, wherein one asks for the courage to change what can be changed, the patience to endure what can't be changed...and the wisdom to know the difference. Our illegal immigration problem canNOT be changed by "law and order" measures, as is pointed out in The Federalist (which is a conservative and libertarian website):

In 2015 the Border Patrol was more than five times as big as it was in 1995. In 1954, the average Border Patrol officer apprehended 953 illegal immigrants. In 2015, that number dipped to 17, as more officers are chasing fewer illegal immigrants. They set up road checkpoints 100 miles inland that are ineffective at apprehending illegal immigrants but guaranteed to harass American citizens, often depriving them of their Fourth Amendment rights.

The most infamous checkpoint is in the Arizona town of Arivaca, 11 miles from the Mexican border. Residents of this small town have been protesting it for years, and numerous alleged Border Patrol rights violations have escalated to the point of a federal lawsuit. Many local residents are so upset that they are running their own surveillance operation to monitor the Border Patrol. In 2008, 4 percent of Border Patrol agents were assigned to such checkpoints but apprehended a mere 2 percent of illegal immigrants detained in that year. That’s a poor showing, even for government work.

So if pumping more tax dollars and government workers into "law and order" isn't working, is the answer to pump even more tax dollars and government workers to try to make it work? Of course not. That's why we have to look for other answers.

Okay, you are clearly ignoring the content of my post. No, there is no reason to deploy your brown shirts. Just make their lives impossible here, and they will leave.

Illegals are given a front seat at the Government teat. That presents a lot of incentive to break the laws to get here, and even more to stay. Simply take those incentives away, and the illegals will leave on their own. If you had no ID, no job, no money, no Government assistance, no housing, and no prospect of getting anything mentioned, you would leave; and so would they. As long as the items on my list are handed out like candy, they will stay.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

I know it better than you do by the sound of it.

No, you don't. All you're doing is saying what you think you yourself would do in their place.

And the reason they are here in the first place is that they cannot afford that price. Without the free services and employment they simply have no reason to be here.

And the fact that you made those two claims proves that you really don't understand their motivation, their drive, or their determination; even worse, that you deny any ignorance at all of their motivations. You assume you know all you need to know.

The reality is I don't have to live with it, I just have to keep pushing at the politicians I elect to follow the damn law, to deport these assholes.

So you support sending armed groups from door-to-door to every residence in America demanding "papers, please", year after year after year, to search for illegal immigrants...'cause that's the ONLY way - repeat, the ONLY way - to "cleanse" America of illegal immigrants (and even then, millions would still remain).

Noted.

 

[clownboy]

Which won't matter if they're sure they won't live long after going home. If they can't get their food and shelter from the private sector, they'll get it from organized crime. Not a shocker.

And by the way, are YOU willing to pay double for your groceries and housing just to make them "too expensive" for immigrants? oke

You don't seem to understand, I suggested no such thing. If they have to show they are here legally to rent a place YOUR argument was they would just rent on the black market. The black market would be far more expensive. Tough to buy groceries at any price when they're not getting food stamps and they can't work.

You don't seem to understand how the black market operates.

 

[clownboy]

No, you don't. All you're doing is saying what you think you yourself would do in their place.

And the fact that you made those two claims proves that you really don't understand their motivation, their drive, or their determination; even worse, that you deny any ignorance at all of their motivations. You assume you know all you need to know.

That demonstrates you have zero understanding of the reasons behind illegal entry.

So you support sending armed groups from door-to-door to every residence in America demanding "papers, please", year after year after year, to search for illegal immigrants...'cause that's the ONLY way - repeat, the ONLY way - to "cleanse" America of illegal immigrants (and even then, millions would still remain).

Noted.

Nope, that's YOUR idiot strawman. I've posted many times over the years here precisely how to deal with the problem of illegals. None of my posts include going door to door. However, that is the typical busted strawman built by those who push open borders. They trot it out when all their other arguments are busted.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Okay, you are clearly ignoring the content of my post. No, there is no reason to deploy your brown shirts. Just make their lives impossible here, and they will leave.

Illegals are given a front seat at the Government teat. That presents a lot of incentive to break the laws to get here, and even more to stay. Simply take those incentives away, and the illegals will leave on their own. If you had no ID, no job, no money, no Government assistance, no housing, and no prospect of getting anything mentioned, you would leave; and so would they. As long as the items on my list are handed out like candy, they will stay.

And you, like the others, have no clue about the illegals - I've personally seen how they can get around every. single. one. of the hardships you've just proposed...and as long as there are illegals who need to stay, there will be those who will do what's necessary to help them stay. And when it comes to jobs and money - they find ways. If you live in a third-world nation for a while (as I did), you find out that if one doesn't have a job, one MAKES a job, one FINDS a way to make money, one way or another, selling fruit on the street corners if they have to. Stopping them from "having jobs" here is no big obstacle to them.

The thought that they would 'self-deport' is a conservative fever dream and nothing more. "Make it hard for them and they'll leave!" When the illegals hear that, they pretty much laugh...because there's nothing we can do here that could make it as bad as where they came from.

Y'all really have no clue about their motivation, their drive, and their determination. You're assuming they'd give up and leave...but they wouldn't. Why? They didn't grow up with the soft and easy life that most Americans do...and so they don't give up nearly as easily as most Americans would when faced with the same "make 'em self-deport" obstacles y'all are dreaming up.

 

[Mycroft]

No, it's not. They're here already...and we're not going to be able to get them all to leave regardless of what we do to make them leave. So we can either force them to remain in the shadows - and much more likely to be recruited as part of the criminal element - OR we can give them seasonal work permits...in which they pay taxes to defray the costs the American taxpayer incurs for them being here in the first place. That, and if they have seasonal work permits, they'll be much less likely to be recruited by the criminal element since they won't be forced to live in the shadows.

We can do that...or we can try (yet AGAIN) being "really tough" on them...which simply doesn't work, as I've pointed out already, since I've already watched them get around every single one of the hardships you and the other guy proposed.

Oh...I don't mind seasonal work permits...for the one actually doing the work. Bring his/her whole family? No way. Also, when the season is done...they leave.

But you know how hard it is to enforce that stuff? Heck, we cannot prevent them from coming here...bringing their families...and NEVER leaving, now. What makes you think that'll happen under your plan?

And what about our laws to deal with illegal immigrants? Do you think there won't be anymore under your plan? That's rather naive, if you ask me. No...you plan will just make things work. Enforcing our laws is the best course of action...along with securing our borders.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

That demonstrates you have zero understanding of the reasons behind illegal entry.



Nope, that's YOUR idiot strawman. I've posted many times over the years here precisely how to deal with the problem of illegals. None of my posts include going door to door. However, that is the typical busted strawman built by those who push open borders. They trot it out when all their other arguments are busted.

Nope. No strawman. Fact. There's no other way that y'all would ever be able to drive the illegals out, and even then it wouldn't work nearly as well as you'd hope.

And your "self-deportation" dream is precisely that, and nothing more. It'd work every bit as much - and be every bit as great a tragic failure - as the "War on Drugs".