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Early November's plunge in crude oil prices

In terms of interest rates not rising more, and not raising the general inflation rate or CPI, I agree. But I am very happy seeing a bit of rising wages.

I suppose I was one of the few that was happy with the calm, steady, Obama economy:

no inflation, low interest rates, steadily adding jobs, no drama

I also like to see slower growth rates for longer periods. When the economy heats up too fast it is more short lived and the corrections are much worse.
 
Economic slowdown in China, and the sanctions on Iran not being as dramatic as expected

I'll say. Trump announced the sanctions and then excluded the top five countries that buy Iranian fossil fuels. Somehow the second half of that deal got no pub.

"I HAVE REINSTATED THE SANCTIONS ON IRAN.....and excluded the countries that actually buy Iranian stuff"
 
Drama??? Wait till dereg in the financial services industry poop hits the fan!
If I may ask:

Where you content with the Obama economy?

In personal terms, I was very happy. In the sectors that matter to me & mine professionally, the economy was robust enough, my property values were consistently appreciating, and my personal interest rates and inflation were very low. I was a happy camper. Still am, but just a bit less happy now due to rising rates and CPI.

In social terms, I was happy enough. All the important numbers were moving in the right direction in a steady calm pace, though some working-class wages were not rising much. I chalked that up to global and technological forces. Still do actually, and don't see Trump's economy changing that part of the equation in any huge ways.
 
I'll say. Trump announced the sanctions and then excluded the top five countries that buy Iranian fossil fuels. Somehow the second half of that deal got no pub.

"I HAVE REINSTATED THE SANCTIONS ON IRAN.....and excluded the countries that actually buy Iranian stuff"
And he excluded oil! :lamo
 
I also like to see slower growth rates for longer periods. When the economy heats up too fast it is more short lived and the corrections are much worse.
:thumbs:

In other words, and not trying to politicize this, but as we saw under much of Obama's term in office.
 
:thumbs:

In other words, and not trying to politicize this, but as we saw under much of Obama's term in office.

Yes. However, I don't think that was Obama's plan. I think it just worked out that way because of Obama's policies stymied economic growth from getting better than it's about 2%. Republican policies do help economic growth be at a faster rate but it does come with the price tag of larger growth for shorter periods, followed by bigger recessions. Nothing is free in this world. However, I do prefer slower growth for longer periods rather than bigger swings, both up and down.
 
Yes. However, I don't think that was Obama's plan. I think it just worked out that way because of Obama's policies stymied economic growth from getting better than it's about 2%. Republican policies do help economic growth be at a faster rate but it does come with the price tag of larger growth for shorter periods, followed by bigger recessions. Nothing is free in this world. However, I do prefer slower growth for longer periods rather than bigger swings, both up and down.
I agree 100%.

The only good thing I see with this accelerated growth, is the wage pressure as we bottom-out in unemployment. But that would have still occurred to some effect, under slow steady growth and steady reduction in unemployment.

Unfortunately though, as you stated, the more vicious downturns following quick growth will likely hurt those who waited the longest to see their wages finally inflate a bit.

And while I hope I'm wrong, when the economy corrects I'm worried the stock market is going to have a violent emotional reaction. It's been a long time since we've seen a sustained strong pull-back. With this year being flat, I hope we're not looking at being on the head portion of a head-and-shoulders graph.
 
If I may ask:

Where you content with the Obama economy?

In personal terms, I was very happy. In the sectors that matter to me & mine professionally, the economy was robust enough, my property values were consistently appreciating, and my personal interest rates and inflation were very low. I was a happy camper. Still am, but just a bit less happy now due to rising rates and CPI.

In social terms, I was happy enough. All the important numbers were moving in the right direction in a steady calm pace, though some working-class wages were not rising much. I chalked that up to global and technological forces. Still do actually, and don't see Trump's economy changing that part of the equation in any huge ways.

I was fine with it to this extent:
IMO, Obama did what he could with what he was handed. "Hello Mr New President....the Investment banks just fell apart and everybody is losing their houses and their jobs. Got any ideas?"

So he brought us through that mess. Don't care what the detractors have to say. That is what he did. Then he determined that Healthcare Reform was were he should spend the limited political capital that he had. Remember, the GOP declared war on Obama just for standing in the door to the WH. So there was just so much he was going to be able to get done before he paid a price in the 2010 midterms.

IMO he determined that he would hand the next President a very solid foundation with which to work to set us up for the next twenty maybe thirty years........and then there was Donald!

Obama wanted a corp tax cut but knew that the GOP would never go for it because it would have been his idea. However he never would have taken Corp tax rates to 21% which was idiotic. Way too much of a cut. I do believe Obama thought Hilary would lose to the GOP nominee. However I don't think Obama believed Trump would be the GOP nominee.

So in Obama's world I would bet that a Republican becomes President from the 2016 election (just not Donald) and we get a Corp tax cut to about a nominal 26% (heralded by the GOP because Obama could not take credit for it) and we get sane, measured, not entirely corrupt deregulation that is less overreach and more often reasonably well intentioned and effective. BUT NO!!!!! Enter Bozo the President and Corp tax cuts that are too steep, deregulation that is too often overreach and laced with so much corruption that you actually cannot tell if the basis was the corruption or the deregulation.
 
I was fine with it to this extent:
IMO, Obama did what he could with what he was handed. "Hello Mr New President....the Investment banks just fell apart and everybody is losing their houses and their jobs. Got any ideas?"

So he brought us through that mess. Don't care what the detractors have to say. That is what he did. Then he determined that Healthcare Reform was were he should spend the limited political capital that he had. Remember, the GOP declared war on Obama just for standing in the door to the WH. So there was just so much he was going to be able to get done before he paid a price in the 2010 midterms.

IMO he determined that he would hand the next President a very solid foundation with which to work to set us up for the next twenty maybe thirty years........and then there was Donald!

Obama wanted a corp tax cut but knew that the GOP would never go for it because it would have been his idea. However he never would have taken Corp tax rates to 21% which was idiotic. Way too much of a cut. I do believe Obama thought Hilary would lose to the GOP nominee. However I don't think Obama believed Trump would be the GOP nominee.

So in Obama's world I would bet that a Republican becomes President from the 2016 election (just not Donald) and we get a Corp tax cut to about a nominal 26% (heralded by the GOP because Obama could not take credit for it) and we get sane, measured, not entirely corrupt deregulation that is less overreach and more often reasonably well intentioned and effective. BUT NO!!!!! Enter Bozo the President and Corp tax cuts that are too steep, deregulation that is too often overreach and laced with so much corruption that you actually cannot tell if the basis was the corruption or the deregulation.
That's an interesting take on events; thanks for taking the time to pen it.

I was not aware Obama may have desired corporate tax cuts, but your take on it is as good as any I suppose. I'm not sure how he felt about the debt and deficit though, but I'm sure he felt it was something he had to do - at least in the early days.
 
That's an interesting take on events; thanks for taking the time to pen it.

I was not aware Obama may have desired corporate tax cuts, but your take on it is as good as any I suppose. I'm not sure how he felt about the debt and deficit though, but I'm sure he felt it was something he had to do - at least in the early days.

Remember, Obama went past Hilary like she was standing still in 2008. So I find it entirely plausible that Obama thought any decent GOP candidate would pound her senseless because he knew how to pound her senseless. it ain't that hard!

Any reasonable GOP candidate would have taken on Infrastructure almost immediately and with a real proposal instead of Trump's completely transparent facade. We would have had none of this Wall idiocy and children being ripped out of the hands of parents. We would not have exited JCPOA and while Hilary was in favor of exiting TPP, no Conservative was interested in doing that.

Not that Traditional Republicans don't have similar inclinations to Trump's regarding things like White Privilege. Its just that actual Conservatives have more important things to do. For example, with McConnell in place we still would have gotten mainly SC nominees along traditional Conservative lines....probably not Gorsuch or Kavanaugh but still in the main conservative. I am not sure Kennedy would have been convinced to retire. Kennedy retired for reasons specific to Trump and Kennedy's kid who works for Deutsche Bank. Kennedy wanted no part of the link between his kid and Trump while being a sitting SC Justice. No Wall crap....No Caravan crap....no ripping children out of the hands of parents. No NATO drama.

Now what I am banking on here is that a GOP President would have taken full advantage of everything that a GOP President wants to take advantage of from his perspective of what is right for his party and his country. Donald simply does what is right for Donald. Donald is his own party and his own country!
 
Remember, Obama went past Hilary like she was standing still in 2008. So I find it entirely plausible that Obama thought any decent GOP candidate would pound her senseless because he knew how to pound her senseless. it ain't that hard!

Any reasonable GOP candidate would have taken on Infrastructure almost immediately and with a real proposal instead of Trump's completely transparent facade. We would have had none of this Wall idiocy and children being ripped out of the hands of parents. We would not have exited JCPOA and while Hilary was in favor of exiting TPP, no Conservative was interested in doing that.

Not that Traditional Republicans don't have similar inclinations to Trump's regarding things like White Privilege. Its just that actual Conservatives have more important things to do. For example, with McConnell in place we still would have gotten mainly SC nominees along traditional Conservative lines....probably not Gorsuch or Kavanaugh but still in the main conservative. I am not sure Kennedy would have been convinced to retire. Kennedy retired for reasons specific to Trump and Kennedy's kid who works for Deutsche Bank. Kennedy wanted no part of the link between his kid and Trump while being a sitting SC Justice. No Wall crap....No Caravan crap....no ripping children out of the hands of parents. No NATO drama.

Now what I am banking on here is that a GOP President would have taken full advantage of everything that a GOP President wants to take advantage of from his perspective of what is right for his party and his country. Donald simply does what is right for Donald. Donald is his own party and his own country!
Yep, agreed.

It's easy to overlook that any reasonable GOP candidate would get the GOP what they've gotten with Trump, plus perhaps a bit more. And certainly with less drama and alienation. Trump has shrunken the party, rather than grown it. And even worse, he greatly invigorated the Dems more than a less inflammatory GOP Pres would have.
 
Remember, Obama went past Hilary like she was standing still in 2008. So I find it entirely plausible that Obama thought any decent GOP candidate would pound her senseless because he knew how to pound her senseless. it ain't that hard!

Any reasonable GOP candidate would have taken on Infrastructure almost immediately and with a real proposal instead of Trump's completely transparent facade. We would have had none of this Wall idiocy and children being ripped out of the hands of parents. We would not have exited JCPOA and while Hilary was in favor of exiting TPP, no Conservative was interested in doing that.

Not that Traditional Republicans don't have similar inclinations to Trump's regarding things like White Privilege. Its just that actual Conservatives have more important things to do. For example, with McConnell in place we still would have gotten mainly SC nominees along traditional Conservative lines....probably not Gorsuch or Kavanaugh but still in the main conservative. I am not sure Kennedy would have been convinced to retire. Kennedy retired for reasons specific to Trump and Kennedy's kid who works for Deutsche Bank. Kennedy wanted no part of the link between his kid and Trump while being a sitting SC Justice. No Wall crap....No Caravan crap....no ripping children out of the hands of parents. No NATO drama.

Now what I am banking on here is that a GOP President would have taken full advantage of everything that a GOP President wants to take advantage of from his perspective of what is right for his party and his country. Donald simply does what is right for Donald. Donald is his own party and his own country!

Trouble with the left is, infrastructure is nothing but a code word for "increase the national debt". It doesn't have to be that way. We can do infrastructure without increasing the national debt. Obama pissed me off for eight years when he would never own up to the fact that he wanted to increase the debt. Whenever he talked about spending money (on anything) it was never about increasing the national debt. He always called it an investment. According to Obama, he never spent one dime in eight years. He was always "investing". It got laughable after the first couple of years.
 
In terms of interest rates not rising more, and not raising the general inflation rate or CPI, I agree. But I am very happy seeing a bit of rising wages.

I suppose I was one of the few that was happy with the calm, steady, Obama economy:

no inflation, low interest rates, steadily adding jobs, no drama

I actually want to wait on the numbers for that, especially before I make any decision. Though I will say that the Obama administration had their own drama to deal with and in terms of steady growth. I would say that Clinton and Bush W. Managed to outdo him. Though Bush had a war to boost his numbers and Clinton was coming off possibly the second worst recession we've seen.

The methodic deficit spending was a good move, but most believe it was (and I use this term loosely) artificially, keeping out economy afloat. If I remember correctly, even Forbes had some not too nice things to say about Obama's economy.

I'm not going to place all of the problems at his feet, but I'm sure not going to thank him for anything, anytime soon.
 
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