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Dutch MP Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film sparks protests

Gardener said:
You need me to explain why I said "British" when I was referring to British?

It's for the same reason why I might say your name or user handle if I were referring to you.
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So you must be referring to the 2.4 million Muslims living in the 'British Isles' ?


Paul
 
Red_Dave said:
Attended by dozens of people :shock:
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This is what constantly amuses [not sure if thats the right word] with users on this board proclaiming the UK is in the midst of some-kind of mass uprising :rofl

Paul
 
gunner said:
So you must be referring to the 2.4 million Muslims living in the 'British Isles' ?


Paul
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I cannot tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or whether it comes quite naturally, but I will assume that since the two people who thanked my original post got it I shouldn't need to explain every word.
 
Wilders at House of Lords, March 5: “Freedom must prevail, and freedom will prevail”
2010 March 5
http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/03...reedom-must-prevail-and-freedom-will-prevail/

Geert Wilders
Speech House of Lords, London
Friday the 5th of March 2010
Thank you. It is great to be back in London. And it is great that this time, I got to see more of this wonderful city than just the detention centre at Heathrow Airport.
[........]
first I have great news. Last Wednesday city council elections were held in the Netherlands. And for the first time my party, the Freedom Party, took part in these local elections. We participated in two cities. In Almere, one of the largest Dutch cities. And in The Hague, the third largest city; home of the government, the parliament and the queen. And, we did great! In one fell swoop my party became the largest party in Almere and the second largest party in The Hague.
[.........]
Ladies and gentlemen, not far from here stands a statue of the greatest Prime Minister your country ever had. And I would like to quote him here today:
“Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. No stronger retrograde force exists in the World. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step (…) the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”​
These words are from none other than Winston Churchill wrote this in his book ‘The River War’ from 1899.
Churchill was right.

Ladies and gentlemen, I don’t have a problem and my party does not have a problem with Muslims as such.
There are many moderate Muslims.
The majority of Muslims are law-abiding citizens and want to live a peaceful life as you and I do. I know that. That is why I always make a clear distinction between the people, the Muslims, and the ideology, between Islam and Muslims.
There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam.
....
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Gardener said:
I am convinced that the the degree of denial being so massive, the phobias so deeply ingrained and the need for absolute conformity so great, that the mechanisms involved in turning people who were once British into Eurabians has to work on a level of mass psychosis something akin to that of a cult. The near suicidal zeal with which so many British embrace this weird brand of multiculturalism that has elevated Islam to the point it is inviolate is just too bizarre to be viewed as anything but some sort of cultural sickness.
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OK, i see your struggling.

This paragraph is convinced an element of society [indigenous white] is so massively denying the process that they are being turned into Eurabians. This is being carried out in some sort of mass 'brain washing' program. The results are so profound we are embracing with such vigour that 'no one' is aloud to show dissent!

Hope you follow. So who are the two sides in this apocalyptic turn of events?

Paul
 
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Gardener said:
counting must not be among your skill set.
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I see a pattern forming here. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Bare in mind 'o' boy the UK has an estimated Muslim population of 2.4 million.

Paul
 
gunner said:
I see a pattern forming here. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Bare in mind 'o' boy the UK has an estimated Muslim population of 2.4 million.

Paul
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U.K. police estimated the crowd size of the hizb ut tahrir sponsored rallies at 500-700, and membership in that particular group is, of course, much higher.
 
Gardener said:
U.K. police estimated the crowd size of the hizb ut tahrir sponsored rallies at 500-700, and membership in that particular group is, of course, much higher.
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Source?.... [2.4 million Muslims] considering your a mathematician can you do the percentages?


Paul
 
Gardener said:
The percentages are irrelevant here. "Red" Dave made a comment that only a few dozen were involved. His apologia, like your is intentionally misleading.

BBC NEWS | UK | Cartoon protest slogans condemned
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You provide, one sourse from 2006. That is proving what?

I,m not prepared to do the leg work for you, but have a look at 'Wootton Bassett' Islam UK and consider the level of support for/against such a movement.

Paul
 
Rachel said:
Sorry for cutting in. I'm still shocked by this video. Thanks again for posting this Republic.

No one is being beheaded in it. No one gets killed like in the Geert Wilders film. But to me it's even more shocking. It's just a few Muslim protesters expressing their opinions. They are speaking to a reporter and they have no problem stating openly that Wilders should be killed, and if they get their way he will be killed. And this is in the UK!!! After the 7/7 attacks!

They openly call for the murder of anyone who insults Islam. They openly state that Islam will conquer the world and call for the destruction of European "crusaders". It's just scary.
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Scary, Rachel. but are they right? Will they win?

They seem to have a head start with much of the west still acquiescing to their every demand, fearful to 'offend'. This is treating them like children, which they obviously are not. Instead they are seriously dangerous fanatics, and we should discuss it openly.

Eventually most Europeans will come to regret they never had their version of the American Second Amendment.
 
Like your posts alot, but disagree that Arab countries "never got a shot"!
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Iran also had a chance under the Shah who was modernizing the country, friends with the democracies, and bringing Iran into the modern world.

But when the Ayatolllah took over all of that was lost and the cancer stricken Shah couldn't even find a place to land his plane. Only the US, under the Nixon adminsistration, showed any loyalty.

That was just one of the many missteps the Western democracies have taken. We too often expect the worst of ourselves and the best of others, no matter what their history might be.
 
gunner said:
Are you referring to the 2.4million Muslims living amongst a population of over 60 million?

I also dislike the term 'multiculturalism' and acknowledge there are problems within certain communities [lack of integration] but that goes with the territory of the UK being a pluralist society.


Paul
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Paul, Britain is not a "pluralistic society, it is a bi-cultural society, the Muslims and non-Muslims.

While you might feel more comfortable thinking that the Poles, Chinese and Muslims are all part of this 'multicultural fabric', enough Muslims don't feel the same way. You can't be 'multicultural' unless all sides agree to it.
 
Grant said:
Paul, Britain is not a "pluralistic society, it is a bi-cultural society, the Muslims and non-Muslims.

While you might feel more comfortable thinking that the Poles, Chinese and Muslims are all part of this 'multicultural fabric', enough Muslims don't feel the same way. You can't be 'multicultural' unless all sides agree to it.
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Your enough, and my enough may not not be to far apart. The difference may be in our perceived effects of that percentage on the overall stability of the nation. But, that does not detract from our society espousing pluralist beliefs.

Paul
 
PeteEU said:
Compared to the radical nut jobs in the US and the size .. then these few people are peanuts.
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Now's your chance to demonstrate this comment with some fact.

Can you show a crowd of Americans chanting death to anyone? Or saying that anyone who criticizes the United States will be murdered?

Frankly, PeteEU, its people like yourself who helped make Britain the country it is today, and why it has such little influence in the world. You're like one of those social misfits who feel they have to put others down in order to build themselves up.

In fact you're even encouraging the Brits to be part of this EU boondoggle in order that they might have more influence, completely forgetting all the influence Britain once had, and without any EU support or participation.
 
PeteEU said:
Compared to the radical nut jobs in the US and the size .. then these few people are peanuts.
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Good god it is like you are 7 years old. It is not the crowd or the amount at this particular incident or event that matters. It is just one more example that represents what is becoming an overwhelming problem.


Let's look at the Kool-Aid Gang of America. Or Waco. Or the D.C. Sniper. Or McVeigh. All nut jobs in America. But the difference is that they do not represent a civilizational mood or share common religious themes that easily turn anything into a legitimate "defense" of their religion. You know you constantly default to accusing me of twisting history or denying history when it doesn't mesh with your designed persepctives on matters, but it is you that constantly refuses to analyze with a degree of truth in your quest to run down America.

Nut jobs in America (cults) are quite content with simply commiting suicide rather than murder others (with exceptions). The problems in Europe that you downplay as insignificant are a part of a whole. And the longer your kind continue to ignore this and think you can talk your way into their hearts the worse your pain is going to be. Hopefully, America won't be there this time. No amount of "we weren't even in Iraq" will save you from your local escalating issues.
 
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But, that does not detract from our society espousing pluralist beliefs.
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I think you're doing a great job in espousing and believing, Gunner. It's the reality of the situation where you appear to fall short.

With 2.5 million Muslims in the UK and 25,000 (one per cent) of them thinking terrorism is a good idea, that strongly suggests not everyone shares in your beliefs.

And polls indicate that the number of Islamists in the UK are rising.

Killing for religion is justified, say third of Muslim students - Telegraph

So there you have it, Gunner. You have your beliefs and they have theirs. Who do you think will win over the long term?

The answer might be found in the reality that they will die for their beliefs, but we can be quite certain you will never willingly die for yours.
 
Rachel said:
I watched this interview with him on the BBC and he doesn't sound like a racist to me.
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He does to me. I just sent it to my friends in Istanbul: moderate, secular, most of them gay, Moslems and had three emails back saying the same thing. They found him scary.
 
Grant said:
I think you're doing a great job in espousing and believing, Gunner. It's the reality of the situation where you appear to fall short.

With 2.5 million Muslims in the UK and 25,000 (one per cent) of them thinking terrorism is a good idea, that strongly suggests not everyone shares in your beliefs.

And polls indicate that the number of Islamists in the UK are rising.

Killing for religion is justified, say third of Muslim students - Telegraph

So there you have it, Gunner. You have your beliefs and they have theirs. Who do you think will win over the long term?

The answer might be found in the reality that they will die for their beliefs, but we can be quite certain you will never willingly die for yours.
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From that one per cent [stated as minority by your source] who suggest they support terrorism how many do you feel will, or are inclined to carry out a terrorist atrocity? i feel we are getting into the realms of 0.001 etc which of course does not meet the utopian ideal ,but its a minority figure we have to deal with.
You then have to ask yourself is that so dissimilar to most countries throughout the world. For one reason, or another, we have many dissenting minority groups expressing themselves in the most extreme fashion [terrorism]. So we must keep the problem in context.

This brings us onto who are the perpetrators. An often used expression is Religious Fundamentalism a term first used in debates within American Protestantism between 1910/15, evangelical Protestants published a series of pamphlets entitled 'the fundamentals' basically upholding the inerrancy, or literal truth, of the Bible.
Fundamentalism has took on a modern face 'Islamist extremism'. The followers of such a literal interpretation are fortunately few. But, you are correct in asserting it may be on the rise, why is that?

Edited to add. I have placed my life at the mercy of my beliefs on three tours of combat, so i suggest i have pretty much backed my **** up.

Paul
 
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Grant said:
Now's your chance to demonstrate this comment with some fact.

Can you show a crowd of Americans chanting death to anyone? Or saying that anyone who criticizes the United States will be murdered?

Frankly, PeteEU, its people like yourself who helped make Britain the country it is today, and why it has such little influence in the world. You're like one of those social misfits who feel they have to put others down in order to build themselves up.

In fact you're even encouraging the Brits to be part of this EU boondoggle in order that they might have more influence, completely forgetting all the influence Britain once had, and without any EU support or participation.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk0ZJ6-MGY4"]YouTube- "Gay people should be executed" Westboro Baptist Church[/ame]

Bunch of Americans calling for gays to be executed. Extremists? Of course, but every religion has its crazies.
 
MSgt said:
Good god it is like you are 7 years old. It is not the crowd or the amount at this particular incident or event that matters. It is just one more example that represents what is becoming an overwhelming problem.
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And that problem being what? that certain parts of our society are trying to force in place religious dogma ahead of common sense and logic? And that does not happen in the US on a mass scale? /wave the Republican party and the American taliban.

Let's look at the Kool-Aid Gang of America. Or Waco. Or the D.C. Sniper. Or McVeigh. All nut jobs in America. But the difference is that they do not represent a civilizational mood or share common religious themes that easily turn anything into a legitimate "defense" of their religion.
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And the various abortion bombings, the various anti-government attacks.. they were from raving non religious liberals I am guessing? And Waco was not based on religion? Or the supposed mainstream politicians and talk heads on the right advocating everything from mass murder to assassination of political enemies.. yea no waco people there..

You know you constantly default to accusing me of twisting history or denying history when it doesn't mesh with your designed persepctives on matters, but it is you that constantly refuses to analyze with a degree of truth in your quest to run down America.
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My designed perspectives? I have never denied we have issues in Europe. I have never denied that certain parts of Muslim's in Europe are radicalised. What I refuse to do is paint every single muslim in Europe as a "problem" such as you, many American right wingers and Wilders are trying to do. I am not the one that totally disregards radicals among American Muslims let alone among Christians in the US or in Wilders case, his base.. the neo nazi skin head radicals. We dont have people bombing and assassinating abortion doctors here.. you do. We dont have wacos flying planes into government buildings.. you do. We dont have school shootings on almost a weekly basis, you do.

Nut jobs in America (cults) are quite content with simply commiting suicide rather than murder others (with exceptions).
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Who said cults? Being a "nut" is almost mainstream in the US these days.. its called the Republican party, which has been infested by the radical religious right, who would if they could, put in place many new laws banning everything from divorce to being gay and worse. Only thing that is stopping them is the more sane majority of the US population.

The problems in Europe that you downplay as insignificant are a part of a whole.
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I am not downplaying anything. You are making a mountain out of a small bump on a flat grass field.

And the longer your kind continue to ignore this and think you can talk your way into their hearts the worse your pain is going to be. Hopefully, America won't be there this time. No amount of "we weren't even in Iraq" will save you from your local escalating issues.
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Ignore what? Do you seriously think we just sticking our heads in the ground over here? Unlike the US, we dont ignore radicals regardless of what colour or religion they are part off. And sorry that we have not set up our own GITMO to house the worst "radical muslims".. but we live in a free democracy where people are allowed to have non popular opinions.. even this racist pig Wilders. Where the buck stops is when they start to advocate violence and does actual violence... You should learn about that...
 
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