Dutch MP Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film sparks protests

[mbig]

Actually Arab countries are a good, if unwitting, demonstration by bub of the Problems with Islam.

The only truly successful Arab democracy was CHRISTIAN Lebanon, before the population shifted to Muslim and the ensuing Civil War.

Isolates/highlights the Problem quite nicely.
-

 

[Rachel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U&feature=player_embedded

Sorry for cutting in. I'm still shocked by this video. Thanks again for posting this Republic.

No one is being beheaded in it. No one gets killed like in the Geert Wilders film. But to me it's even more shocking. It's just a few Muslim protesters expressing their opinions. They are speaking to a reporter and they have no problem stating openly that Wilders should be killed, and if they get their way he will be killed. And this is in the UK!!! After the 7/7 attacks!

They openly call for the murder of anyone who insults Islam. They openly state that Islam will conquer the world and call for the destruction of European "crusaders". It's just scary.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

You're quite welcome Rachel. And thank you for this topic.

The Islamists in the video are scarier because they represent more of a mainstream opinion, as my channel 4 video (amongst others) illustrated.

When the infamous riots were taking place outside the Danish Embassy in London, a van driver was threatened with arrest - just for protesting to a policeman that no arrests were being made over the outrage.

These views are 'tolerated' to avoid offending other Muslims and the 'Arab street', whatever the hell that euphamism is. Either the rest of the Muslims represent a greater danger than even I know or the Leftists in government are more dangerously complicit than I thought.


___________________________________________

ISLAMIC EXTREMISM AND LEFT-WING COLLUSION SCANDAL:




Rape as punishment for 'uncovered' women and violent pogroms every 5 minutes by Islamic nutcases? Is this the Religion of Peace the Multiculturalists demand we doff our caps to?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkMU4ip6CpY"]YouTube- Muslim Protests in Europe[/ame]

Schoolboys disciplined for 'refusing to pray to Allah' - Telegraph

Parents protest at school's 'Halal-only' lunch | Mail Online

Muslim protests are incitement to murder, say Tories - Telegraph



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20"]YouTube- Violent Muslim Protest Outside the Danish Embassy in London[/ame]

 

[MSgt]

Actually Arab countries are a good, if unwitting demonstration, by you of the Problems with Islam.

The only truly successful Arab democracy was CHRISTIAN Lebanon, before the population shifted to Muslim and the ensuing Civil War.

Quite a good Isolation of the Problem.
-

Well, you have to be fair about Lebanon. The Arab world has had a crack at getting something right only twice in their modern history. Today, they have Iraq to prove to the world what they are capable of. But yesterday it was Lebanon.

Muslims and Christians in Lebanon recognized their tribal differences. But rather than slaughter each other they chose to try to create unity. They divided the power amongst the tribes equally in accordance to population percentage. The president was to be Christian, the vice another tribe, and so on. But just like Palestine, Arabs elsewhere became a source of instigation. Outside and internal forces eventually disrupted Lebanon's path and by the time the Lebanese Civil War broke out, Muslims had become the majority and Power distribution was no longer equal in accordance to the population....

- Sunni Arabs and Palestinians began forcing Shia Muslims into the fight against Israeli Jews.

- Muslim Syrians would go on to slaughter Muslim Palestinian refugees.

- Tensions between Muslims and Christians in Lebanon grew worse.


Lebanon shares something with Palestine in this way. Both were denied their opportunities to succeed by Sunni Arabs elsewhere. The result was instigated refugee status for millions and civil war. Both situations were executed by Muslims against Muslims. Today, the politicial wreckage in Lebanon and the denial of Palesitnian citizenship in Jordan and Lebanon is concrete solid.

....and Sunni Arabs elsewhere all wash their hands and blame others.

 

[bub]

....and the Sunni strangle hold on Islam

Oh and by the way Iran is shia and it's not more democratic than the Arab countries

 

[MSgt]

Sorry for cutting in. I'm still shocked by this video. Thanks again for posting this Republic.

No one is being beheaded in it. No one gets killed like in the Geert Wilders film. But to me it's even more shocking. It's just a few Muslim protesters expressing their opinions. They are speaking to a reporter and they have no problem stating openly that Wilders should be killed, and if they get their way he will be killed. And this is in the UK!!! After the 7/7 attacks!

They openly call for the murder of anyone who insults Islam. They openly state that Islam will conquer the world and call for the destruction of European "crusaders". It's just scary.

I have learned that the fear of being less than politically correct (or cowardice) allows this behavior to go on. Others in other religions, cults, or some other organization would be held accountable for voicing on the death of people. Only in Islam can people get away with pointing out individuals and demand their murder so openly. And only in Islam can governments do the same about whole other nations.

 

[mbig]

Well, you have to be fair about Lebanon. The Arab world has had a crack at getting something right only twice in their modern history. Today, they have Iraq to prove to the world what they are capable of. But yesterday it was Lebanon.

Muslims and Christians in Lebanon recognized their tribal differences. But rather than slaughter each other they chose to try to create unity. They divided the power amongst the tribes equally in accordance to population percentage. The president was to be Christian, the vice another tribe, and so on. But just like Palestine, Arabs elsewhere became a source of instigation. Outside and internal forces eventually disrupted Lebanon's path and by the time the Lebanese Civil War broke out, Muslims had become the majority and Power distribution was no longer equal in accordance to the population....

- Sunni Arabs and Palestinians began forcing Shia Muslims into the fight against Israeli Jews.

- Muslim Syrians would go on to slaughter Muslim Palestinian refugees.

- Tensions between Muslims and Christians in Lebanon grew worse.


Lebanon shares something with Palestine in this way. Both were denied their opportunities to succeed by Sunni Arabs elsewhere. The result was instigated refugee status for millions and civil war. Both situations were executed by Muslims against Muslims. Today, the politicial wreckage in Lebanon and the denial of Palesitnian citizenship in Jordan and Lebanon is concrete solid.

....and Sunni Arabs elsewhere all wash their hands and blame others.

Like your posts alot, but disagree that Arab countries "never got a shot"!

Many have Oil money to Burn and no excuses. The only ones one Could say are 'successes' are the tiny Emirates which essentially did remain Tribes rather than democracies.
Jordan is doing decently as a 'Benevolent Monarchy' with some parliamentary input thanks only to the Luck of the moderation of it's ruling family's leadership.. so far.

In that respect you're right.. the West did organize them into larger countries that they were culturally (including religously) never meant to be.

Of course, Lebanon, as a Christian Arab democracy, did overcome this 'Western border handicap' Until Muslims tipped the balance.
-

 

[MSgt]

Yet many countries you have mentionned have had a very brief experience with democracy, like Kuwait (have they ever been democratic??), Syria and Iraq.

Nope, but colonized. Kuwait is too close to the heartland of Islam. The only way Kuwait would have abruptly attempted a real democracy is if the West made it so post Gulf War.

Syria and Iraq were colonized as well. Both are far cries from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan on many social levels. Even Saddam Hussein's Iraq (colonized) boasted a high percentage of educated individuals. Not so in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. And Turkey? The nation that ended 1400 years of caliphate rule and completely shifted to democracy? The same nation that seems to have to have its military take over every decade until they can give the nation back to civilians to preserve their democracy? Colonized.

There are so many angles to this. I am a huge fan of blaming Europeans for the mess today that bad borders gave the world (as you know), but colonizing the Middle East was a kick in the pants for many of these nations. Even after Europeans were removed from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iran (and the Americans), etc., all of them maintained a measure of Westernization and built on it. This is why they stand apart from Saudi Arabia the way they do. Nasr of Egypt rose out of European occupation, but once he controlled Egypt he directed towards nationalism and away from theocracy.

And Pakistan? Given that they were colonized by the British (as was India), they should have been a contendor. They are perhaps the greatest dissapointment of states that have attempted democracy. But, they too stand far apart from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

 

[MSgt]

Like your posts alot, but disagree strongly that Arab countries "never got a shot"!

We agree.

I didn't mean it like that. I meant that their only real attempts to get it right were Lebanon and today's Iraq. Lebanon was an attempt to prove that diverse tribes can co-exist within same borders. It fell apart. Iraq (provided by those "evil, tyrannical" Americans and their friends) is the current attempt to prove they can get it right. Of course, with the Sunni slaughtering the Shia and vice versa in retaliation, it looked grim for a while there. Time will tell. Perhaps Iraq will be there last chance before the oil runs out and the West stops caring at all what they do to each other.

Many have Oil money to Burn and no excuses.

Absolutely. The oil money has been a drug. With the world leaning on what comes from under their sand so heavily, they have nothing to show for it. No contribution towards the international community. This civilization can't even produce a car. They have refused to create their own opportunity to succeed. And with half of their society (women, which is the life blood of all civilizations) being denied the opportunity to contribute, they can't possibly hope to compete with the internaitonl world on any level. They are prescribed for failure.

Culture is fate.

 

[MSgt]

Oh and by the way Iran is shia and it's not more democratic than the Arab countries

True. But it was the Shia that never believed in democracy of any kind as far back as Muhammad in the first place. They believed that the successor of Muhammad was to automatically be inherited by blood lines, thereby creating a monarchy of sorts. It was the Sunni elders that "voted" for the first caliphate. Now, the Sunni (and Ottoman) caliphate dynasties would later make the throne of Islam an inherited thing anyway.

But today's Iran is far more democratic than Saudi Arabia. And even though the intellectuals and religious freaks gave away success for Khomieni and quickly realized that Khomeini wasn't exactly what they wanted....they have moved on and captured a bit of westernization within their society. Their "democracy" is BS, but we are talking about the Shia and a traditional Majlis. It was the current president that began banning western influence inside Iran. This will pass. The largest protestor base by far in the entire region for Westernization is consistantly in Iran.


.......Oh, and a point of interest that most are unaware of in regards to Iran is that until the Shia were forced into conflict against Israelis by the Sunni during the Lebanese Civil War, Iran and the rest of the region's Shia could care less about Israel/Palestinian issues. It was Khoemini, a few years later, that created Hezbollah and fanaticized the issue for Iran and the Shia tribe.

 

[Gardener]

I have learned that the fear of being less than politically correct (or cowardice) allows this behavior to go on. Others in other religions, cults, or some other organization would be held accountable for voicing on the death of people. Only in Islam can people get away with pointing out individuals and demand their murder so openly. And only in Islam can governments do the same about whole other nations.

I am convinced that the the degree of denial being so massive, the phobias so deeply ingrained and the need for absolute conformity so great, that the mechanisms involved in turning people who were once British into Eurabians has to work on a level of mass psychosis something akin to that of a cult. The near suicidal zeal with which so many British embrace this weird brand of multiculturalism that has elevated Islam to the point it is inviolate is just too bizarre to be viewed as anything but some sort of cultural sickness.

 

[gunner]

Absolutely. The oil money has been a drug. With the world leaning on what comes from under their sand so heavily, they have nothing to show for it. No contribution towards the international community. This civilization can't even produce a car. They have refused to create their own opportunity to succeed.

They have masses of capital, concentrated in the hands of the few. Oil money is probably a double edged sword, in that it provides copious amounts of dollars leaving them not having to adventure into other industries. Of course the oil will not last forever, so we will see more of Dubai type projects sprouting around the region IMO.

Why would they want to produce cars when they can import?

We must also bare in mind not every society is based on capitalist principles, and its not always useful to compare.

Paul

 

[gunner]

I am convinced that the the degree of denial being so massive, the phobias so deeply ingrained and the need for absolute conformity so great, that the mechanisms involved in turning people who were once British into Eurabians has to work on a level of mass psychosis something akin to that of a cult. The near suicidal zeal with which so many British embrace this weird brand of multiculturalism that has elevated Islam to the point it is inviolate is just too bizarre to be viewed as anything but some sort of cultural sickness.

Are you referring to the 2.4million Muslims living amongst a population of over 60 million?

I also dislike the term 'multiculturalism' and acknowledge there are problems within certain communities [lack of integration] but that goes with the territory of the UK being a pluralist society.


Paul

 

[Gardener]

Are you referring to the 2.4million Muslims living amongst a population of over 60 million?

No.

....

 

[gunner]

No.

....

Then why use British in your paragraph?

Paul

 

[MSgt]

They have masses of capital, concentrated in the hands of the few. Oil money is probably a double edged sword, in that it provides copious amounts of dollars leaving them not having to adventure into other industries. Of course the oil will not last forever, so we will see more of Dubai type projects sprouting around the region IMO.

Without oil directing the world's attention, Dubai is like Vegas without cards. I don't believe Dubai is going to last if it can't achieve what it is attempting. But even if it does, the rest of the region (removed from coasts) is where our troubles are going to spawn (as they do now). I don't see any government north of Mecca looking to create Dubais.

Why would they want to produce cars when they can import?



We must also bare in mind not every society is based on capitalist principles, and its not always useful to compare.

Because embracing oil as the only true export is exactly why they are failing as a region. Japan has the Honda, etc. America has the Dodge, etc. Germany has the Mercedes, etc. But cars are just an example. There's Casio, Pringles, Yamaha, French Wine, Hollywood, Canadian/America/British music, NFL, European soccer, etc. All these things are connecting everybody into a larger community of business and opportunity.

Nations all over the world have found multiple ways to produce and export goods to other nations to be a part of the international community of commerce and trade. The booming economies also happen to be home to the greatest educational institutions. The greatest educational institutions also happen to be home to the most successful people. The most succesful people create the BMWs, Fords, Harvards, Space Shuttles, Electronic chips, medicinal/dental equipment, civilian/military aircraft, engines, IBMs, etc. It's a cycle that starts with a certain mind set. It's a mind set that the Arab Middle East shared under the Abbasid Dynasty (Golden Age of Islam).

Everything is connected....except the Middle East where oil remains their only contribution to the world. And it is running out. Virtually everything in your vision comes from everywhere except the Middle East. Even oil and petroleum products, which comes from Middle Eastern oil, is manufactured elsewhere. If we consider the turmoil and rage that exists between tribes today bad enough, we should consider an ignorant, religiously invested Middle East without the West's money coming in.

 

[mbig]

Everything is connected....except the Middle East where oil remains their only contribution to the world. And it is running out. Virtually everything in your vision comes from everywhere except the Middle East. Even oil and petroleum products, which comes from Middle Eastern oil, is manufactured elsewhere. If we consider the turmoil and rage that exists between tribes today bad enough, we should consider an ignorant, religiously invested Middle East without the West's money coming in.

And even the Labor in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere that produces that oil is Imported.

One Has to wonder if Arab/Islamic OPEC members like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, etc, regard Oil is Allah's little gift/way of Imposing the Jizyah tax on non-Muslims of the world.

They Must.

 

[MSgt]

Then why use British in your paragraph?

Because Depeche Mode is British and they rock except for last year when they cancelled their show in San Diego cause Dave Gahan's throat hurt, which prompted me to get butt hurt and throw a fit and write them an e-mail on their site, for which they promptly ignored, after finding out that they were not going to make it up.

....sorry. When someone brings up the British I automatically think of Depeche Mode.

 

[Gardener]

Then why use British in your paragraph?

Paul

Because I was speaking of native British.

 

[MSgt]

And even the Labor in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere that produces that oil is Imported.

Sunni Arabs generally think thermselves above manual labor. This is why their labor force is largely made up of non-Arabs. In fact, I believe the largest percentage of workers in the oil fields are the oppressed Shia in Saudi Arabia.

 

[gunner]

Without oil directing the world's attention, Dubai is like Vegas without cards. I don't believe Dubai is going to last if it can't achieve what it is attempting. But even if it does, the rest of the region (removed from coasts) is where our troubles are going to spawn (as they do now). I don't see any government north of Mecca looking to create Dubais.






We must also bare in mind not every society is based on capitalist principles, and its not always useful to compare.

Because embracing oil as the only true export is exactly why they are failing as a region. Japan has the Honda, etc. America has the Dodge, etc. Germany has the Mercedes, etc. But cars are just an example. There's Casio, Pringles, Yamaha, French Wine, Hollywood, Canadian/America/British music, NFL, European soccer, etc. All these things are connecting everybody into a larger community of business and opportunity.

Nations all over the world have found multiple ways to produce and export goods to other nations to be a part of the international community of commerce and trade. The booming economies also happen to be home to the greatest educational institutions. The greatest educational institutions also happen to be home to the most successful people. The most succesful people create the BMWs, Fords, Harvards, Space Shuttles, Electronic chips, medicinal/dental equipment, civilian/military aircraft, engines, IBMs, etc. It's a cycle that starts with a certain mind set. It's a mind set that the Arab Middle East shared under the Abbasid Dynasty (Golden Age of Islam).

Everything is connected....except the Middle East where oil remains their only contribution to the world. And it is running out. Virtually everything in your vision comes from everywhere except the Middle East. Even oil and petroleum products, which comes from Middle Eastern oil, is manufactured elsewhere. If we consider the turmoil and rage that exists between tribes today bad enough, we should consider an ignorant, religiously invested Middle East without the West's money coming in.[/QUOTE]

Sorrry the quote went wrong, everything from here is mine

On the whole, i dont think we are necessarily disagreeing. But to expand upon what i stated not every country is based on our capitalist principles. Their whole ideology is different its like comparing 'chalk and cheese'.

Dubai is a 'man made' product for the sole purpose of fulfilling westerners excesses and extravagance. It could and probably will be copied in other parts [if it becomes a success]

I have emboldened one sentence, perhaps they are not inclined to assimilate in the practises of our cultures? And is that a bad thing?

We must also place at the forefront of our analysis of what it must be like to have your countries GDP based around 99.99% of one product 'oil'.

Paul

 

[gunner]

Because Depeche Mode is British and they rock except for last year when they cancelled their show in San Diego cause Dave Gahan's throat hurt, which prompted me to get butt hurt and throw a fit and write them an e-mail on their site, for which they promptly ignored, after finding out that they were not going to make it up.

....sorry. When someone brings up the British I automatically think of Depeche Mode.

Msgt their feckin awful :lol: [and i would not admit to liking them]

Paul

 

[gunner]

Because I was speaking of native British.

As was i...

So the question still stands


Paul

 

[Gardener]

As was i...

So the question still stands


Paul

You need me to explain why I said "British" when I was referring to British?

It's for the same reason why I might say your name or user handle if I were referring to you.

 

[Red_Dave]

Meanwhile, at gatherings across the U.K., signs are held up calling for beheading those who insult Islam, advocating genocide of Jews, and promising an overthrow of the U.K.

Attended by dozens of people :shock: