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Dutch MP Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film sparks protests

R

Rachel

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Muslim protestors insult Geert Wilders[/nomedia]



OMG!!!

Britain is turning into a very scary place. :shock:

Incitement to murder is protected in the UK. But they banned a Dutch MP and film maker who quoted the Koran and showed Imams in their own words.

I feel like Alice in wonderland. This is crazy...
 

bub

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Does this look like .0000001% to you?

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK - Telegraph


Sqooooooooooooooooooosh

And that's in the 'moderate' UK. Wanna try a guess at the Middle East number?

It's realy UNbelievable the crap you try and foist here and sadly actually believe.
And well after many rebuttals of this ".000001%" LIE.
-

Well the title is misleading, they don't want to impose the sharia law upon Brits, they want to apply it for them, that's quite different.

That statistic, from the same article, is probably much more revealing about the number of Muslims immigrants who really have a problem with the West.

One per cent felt the attacks were "right".
 

Manc Skipper

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The bottle blonde bigot's work is going well for him.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Only in the looking-glass world of the Left do facts and evidence become a basis for bigotry and justification for smears. And I think Manc Skipper contunues the trend just now.

Perhaps you'd care to actually add to the debate by taking apart all these supposed lies and distortions, one by foul and putrid one.....
 
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bub

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Your statement indicated that there is 1, that is ONE SINGLE Muslim in the entire world who supports such and such. :roll:

There is a big problem if you take hyperboles like "0,00000001%" seriously. My point was that from my experience, they are a small minority.

The issue, however, isn't how many Muslims do or do not support anything, but what you would allow Muslims to say compared to Wilders.

There should be no difference, the law is the same for everyone.

You should also know that free speech is understood differently in continental Europe than in the USA. In several countries, it is forbidden to deny the holocaust, and I think it is a good rule. It is also forbidden to publish books/articles that are an attack against the reputation of someone (I can't publish an article in the NY times saying you're an asshole), that violate the private life of someone or that incite to racial hatred.

I think that these rules are good, but we may debate about it if you want to.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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There is a great holocaust denial by Muslims and nothing happens to them. Why are just the likes of David Irving or Nick Griffin receiving the summonses and rabid Leftist oppribrium? Probably because mad mullahs and rabid Reds are current brothers in arms against 'bigotry', 'Islamophiobia', 'Zionism' and 'Racism'!


Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims | Mail Online

Holocaust Denial in the Middle East: The Latest anti-Israel Anti-Semitic Propaganda Theme

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01...ritain-boycotts-holocaust-memorial-day-again/

Holocaust group slams British schools - Times Online

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236014,00.html

Fight against Arab Holocaust denial – Telegraph Blogs


...That is if it's even denied in the first place!

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1hQiaCZBTc[/nomedia]
 
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Gardener

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There is a big problem if you take hyperboles like "0,00000001%" seriously. My point was that from my experience, they are a small minority.

No, the problem lies in your indulging in such dishonesty.

There should be no difference, the law is the same for everyone.

Yet there are such vast differences in what is allowed based upon who is saying it -- double standards you are supporting here. The Wilder's statement you quoted rises to nowhere even NEAR the level of invective routinely spouted by Imams in mosques throughout Britain, yet you would suppress Wilder's speech while going so far as to lie about the prevalence of speech magnitudes greater in terms of hate when expressed by Muslims.

Yes, the laws SHOULD be the same for all, but you've been drinking the coolaid if you think you are applying equal standards vis a vis speech critical of Islam and speech arising from within Islam.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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There is a big problem if you take hyperboles like "0,00000001%" seriously.


You only admitted to that because 'bigots' like me disproved it. And to think I've been lambasted by these self same people for over-exaggeration or lies whenever I've said stuff they don't agree with in the past.
 

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No, the problem lies in your indulging in such dishonesty.



Yet there are such vast differences in what is allowed based upon who is saying it -- double standards you are supporting here. The Wilder's statement you quoted rises to nowhere even NEAR the level of invective routinely spouted by Imams in mosques throughout Britain, yet you would suppress Wilder's speech while going so far as to lie about the prevalence of speech magnitudes greater in terms of hate when expressed by Muslims.

Yes, the laws SHOULD be the same for all, but you've been drinking the coolaid if you think you are applying equal standards vis a vis speech critical of Islam and speech arising from within Islam.

Gardener, if you are going to go all europeon on us please pay attention to your grammar

vis-a'-vis

Paul
 

Gardener

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bub

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No, the problem lies in your indulging in such dishonesty.

My posts are like the coran, they shouldn't be taken literally.

Yet there are such vast differences in what is allowed based upon who is saying it -- double standards you are supporting here. The Wilder's statement you quoted rises to nowhere even NEAR the level of invective routinely spouted by Imams in mosques throughout Britain, yet you would suppress Wilder's speech while going so far as to lie about the prevalence of speech magnitudes greater in terms of hate when expressed by Muslims.

I disagreed with you when you say that they are a majority - I never said that those who say such things (like supporting the holocaust etc...) should not be sued like Wilders. If that's not what you understood, then you misunderstood my posts.
 

Gardener

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My posts are like the coran, they shouldn't be taken literally.



I disagreed with you when you say that they are a majority - I never said that those who say such things (like supporting the holocaust etc...) should not be sued like Wilders. If that's not what you understood, then you misunderstood my posts.

Exactly when did I say anything about a majority? :roll:
 

bub

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Exactly when did I say anything about a majority? :roll:

My posts are like the coran, they shouldn't be taken literally.



I disagreed with you when you say that they are numerous - I never said that those who say such things (like supporting the holocaust etc...) should not be sued like Wilders. If that's not what you understood, then you misunderstood my posts.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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The Koran shouldn't be taken at all:

Skeptic's Annotated Quran




As a point of fact, the Koran is merely a badly-compiled appendix volume for the Hadith and Sunnah, books representing Muhammad's manifesto and life story. Tales from these have been taken and woven into the grotesquely pre-medieval Sharia Law, the very barbarity civilised people recoil from.
 

paris

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Gardener, if you are going to go all europeon on us please pay attention to your grammar

vis-a'-vis

Paul

RO****ingFL:)
 

MSgt

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Mr Wilders should visit the former Dutch colony of Indonesia, it is the largest Muslim country in the world and...it is a democracy

It's also far removed from the Arab Middle East. Like I've stated, the further Muslims get away from the heartland of Islam, the more succesful they appear to be.
 

MSgt

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Wow, so much noise over a film!!!


Riots and murder across the Muslim world was the result of a picture cartoon. Certainly a film is worthy of more.
 

bub

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It's also far removed from the Arab Middle East. Like I've stated, the further Muslims get away from the heartland of Islam, the more succesful they appear to be.

Like in Afghanistan?
 

Grant

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He was banned because Lord Ahmed believed at the time that it would be used as an excuse - that is by the BNP and radical Islamists to stir people up.

Why shouldn't people be "stirred up"? Isn't being stirred up a right in Britain? How many other ideas, books, etc, are being banned in the UK because people might be 'stirred up'?

"He was already awaiting trial in the Netherlands. We have a sensitive situation with our Muslim population at the moment, not least because some people like to see them all as radicals and terrorists when this is a very small section".

Was he afraid that these Muslims in the "sensitive situation" would be stirred up? And if it is a "very small section" what does it matter if they are stirred up? Are they stirred up that easily?

"The film is offensive and is rather like a cartoon kind of YouTube film. It is not real"".

Actually it is real. It is real Muslims saying real things and is not a work of fiction. Instead it only quotes Muslims and the Koran. If it is offensive then you should take your complaint to the Muslim leaders or the people who made the comments perhaps, just as some rather brave people, like Mr. Wilders, are doing, and at great risk to their lives.

so what I am wondering is more what you are making all the fuss for

Ever since the Magna Carta of 1215 the British have been know for their contribution to free speech in the world, free inquiry, and their contribution to the world in spreading these concepts. Speakers Corner in Hyde Park became an international symbol of free speech and the right of an English person, no matter what their social status, to speak their minds.

So when the British government decides to bar a visiting politician from a neighbouring country, and a fellow democracy, from showing a movie only containing quotes, then that is a cause for concern throughout the free world. What others are asking themselves is "Could it happen here and What can we do to prevent whats happened in the UK?

Trying to stop things from being "stirred up" was what Enoch Powell was attempting four decades ago, but obviously to no avail. It's a littlle late now to try and stop it, no matter how much you might try to apppease this "very small section".

This 'very small section' are the ones who will try and kill you, and that's why Britons are fearful enough to ban free speech and anything that might cause offense. Right?
 

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Like in Afghanistan?

I don't get your point. The heartland of Islam is Mecca and spans between the western border of Iran and the Suez Canal (in ways Egypt). Iran would be a part of this were they not Shia.

Afghanistan's current situation exists because the Tali-Ban was over thrown by outside forces. Even now they seek to deal with their past oppressors...for "peace." Afghanistan is also far removed form the heartland of Islam.

Iraq is in the heartland of Islam, but this is another country that owes its current status of democracy and freedom to outside forces.

Both nations owe nothing to Sunni Arabs, who control Islam's prescriptions, make up the heartland of Islam, and cater the religion towards their tribe. And both countries contribute very little towards making what is considered a "successful" Muslim outside of the Middle East. In fact, the most successful professional and international Muslims in the region are located in Egypt....and that's even on another continent.
 
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bub

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I don't get your point
.

My point is that distance from a certain point has nothing to do with the presence or absence of democracy

The heartland of Islam is Mecca and spans between the western border of Iran and the Suez Canal (in ways Egypt). Iran would be a part of this were they not Shia.

Afghanistan's current situation exists because the Tali-Ban was over thrown by outside forces. Even now they seek to deal with their past oppressors...for "peace." Afghanistan is also far removed form the heartland of Islam.

Iraq is in the heartland of Islam, but this is another country that owes its current status of democracy and freedom to outside forces.

Both nations owe nothing to Sunni Arabs, who control Islam's prescriptions, make up the heartland of Islam, and cater the religion towards their tribe. And both countries contribute very little towards making what is considered a "successful" Muslim outside of the Middle East. In fact, the most successful professional and international Muslims in the region are located in Egypt....and that's even on another continent.

I don't know what you call "successful" but if you mean "democratic", then the lack of democracy in Arab countries can easily be explained by factors like the lack of middle class (the ones that pushed for democracy in our countries) due to the presence of oil (fixed asset easily controlled by a small minority, no need for a real economy) or our support for the dictators who allowed us to get that oil at a cheap price.
 

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Mr Wilders should visit the former Dutch colony of Indonesia, it is the largest Muslim country in the world and...it is a democracy

Also, with this post you bring up a great point not considered by most.

You stated "former Dutch colony." In terms of education and a shift from historical Islam, Egypt, Syria, Kuwait, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Iraq and others have something in common. All have experimented with some sort of democracy at certian levels or invested heavily into university level education of sorts, moved towards nationalism, and taken on some Western attributes. This is because all were colonized by Europeans.

Two nations were never colonized. Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. So much of the Middle East hates the House of Saud and Afghnaistan has been a wreck of oppression and brutality so long that it is hard to even think of it as anything but.
 

bub

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Also, with this post you bring up a great point not considered by most.

You stated "former Dutch colony." In terms of education and a shift from historical Islam, Egypt, Syria, Kuwait, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Iraq and others have something in common. All have experimented with some sort of democracy at certian levels or invested heavily into university level education of sorts, moved towards nationalism, and taken on some Western attributes. This is because all were colonized by Europeans.

Two nations were never colonized. Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. So much of the Middle East hates the House of Saud and Afghnaistan has been a wreck of oppression and brutality so long that it is hard to even think of it as anything but.

Yet many countries you have mentionned have had a very brief experience with democracy, like Kuwait (have they ever been democratic??), Syria and Iraq.
 

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My point is that distance from a certain point has nothing to do with the presence or absence of democracy

Well, it does. And it certainly does in terms of success, which is what I stated. Had Indonesia been a neighbor of Saudi Arabia, it would be far less than it is right now. Perhaps like Iraq, it would take outside power to provide what Arabs will not.


I don't know what you call "successful" but if you mean "democratic", then the lack of democracy in Arab countries can easily be explained by factors like the lack of middle class (the ones that pushed for democracy in our countries) due to the presence of oil (fixed asset easily controlled by a small minority, no need for a real economy) or our support for the dictators who allowed us to get that oil at a cheap price.

....and the Sunni strangle hold on Islam. All other factors merely alleviate Arab Muslims from their own culture. Saudi Arabi was never colonized. Those who took charge became business partners of the West. This is no different than China or any other nation where their people make up the government and conduct business with others. Had this culture had anything else to offer aside from the Bin Ladens who want to be in charge of the oil....


The vast majority of Muslims who are successful are those who have placed religion where it belongs as they persued their formal education. Most of this has occurred outside of the Middle East. This is one bold reason the majority of the reformers are outside the Middle East. It stands to reason that the most successful nations and governments in the world have done the same in regards to religion and state. Individuals are no different when it comes to education and religion. The Middle East has and is failing at both.
 
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bub

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Well, it does. And it certainly does in terms of success, which is what I stated. Had Indonesia been a neighbor of Saudi Arabia, it would be far less than it is right now. Perhaps like Iraq, it would take outside power to provide what Arabs will not.


And how do you explain that? Is that a kind of geomagnetic factor?



....and the Sunni strangle hold on Islam. All other factors merely alleviate Arab Muslims from their own culture. Saudi Arabi was never colonized. Those who took charge became business partners of the West. This is no different than China or any other nation where their people make up the government and conduct business with others. Had this culture had anything else to offer aside from the Bin Ladens who want to be in charge of the oil....


The vast majority of Muslims who are successful are those who have placed religion where it belongs as they persued their formal education. Most of this has occurred outside of the Middle East. This is one bold reason the majority of the reformers are outside the Middle East. It stands to reason that the most successful nations and governments in the world have done the same in regards to religion and state. Individuals are no different when it comes to education and religion. The Middle East has and is failing at both.

Iraq was a laic state where religion was "placed where it belongs", it was still a dictatorship
 
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