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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state

Rainman05

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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news

he King of the Netherlands has informed his country that their welfare state is finished.

King Willem-Alexander, alongside his wife, Queen Maxima, told the Dutch people that they must create their own social and financial safety nets, and that looking to the state for help was a thing of the 20th century.
The Dutch economy is expected to have shrunk by more than one percent in 2013, and is worsening while recoveries are underway in Britain, Germany and France

So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.
 

AliHajiSheik

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A country known for each person paying their own way? Shocking.
 

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They may be the last ones standing, when the rest of us get crushed by social debt.
 

Ray410

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The Dutch have been overwhelmed with illegal immigration, just as in the United States. Dutch Immigration has been from Eastern Europe, ours from Mexico, South America, Cuba and other Hispanic areas as well as now from all parts of Asia.

Apparently the Dutch have decided their culture is worth saving, while the American Liberals are giddy to see the unique American culture destroyed.
 
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Rainman05

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A country known for each person paying their own way? Shocking.

Well they have been hit hard by the crisis. The Netherlands are known for flowers and roses... not economic stability. Did you know that the first "global" financial bubble was because of the dutch (because of roses, it was a roses-bubble and a housing bubble later on)? Also, they were responsible for some of the first financial crises. Financial crisis isn't a modern invention, there were always such things in the world. The reason we know of the one from 1929 and this one as global financial crises is because globalization and the USA is the nexus of the world... before, even though Europe was the nexus of the world, as the USA was now, it was many countries. So if Spain had problems, it wouldn't cause a global economic collapse, just in Spain and the nations/territories that were depended heavily on them. Other european countries were fine and dandy.

They may be the last ones standing, when the rest of us get crushed by social debt.

They are doing very well debt-wise. Not even 80% in debt comparison to their GDP. Then again, they are still doing deficit spending and aren't quite AAA rating country. Their debt costs more.

The Dutch have been overwhelmed with illegal immigration, just as in the United States.

That is true. In 2011, according to the census, nearly 5-6% of the population was islamic and people weren't happy because they felt that the experience of immigration from the arabic regions hasn't improved their country one bit.
 

Wiseone

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The Dutch have been overwhelmed with illegal immigration, just as in the United States. Dutch Immigration has been from Eastern Europe, ours from Mexico, South America, Cuba and other Hispanic areas as well as now from all parts of Asia.

Apparently the Dutch have decided their culture is worth saving, while the American Liberals are giddy to see the unique American culture destroyed.

I thought our culture was one of individual freedom and expression, where I'm free to associate with whomever I want to to express myself in whatever ways I wish to. But God damn if I choose to speak Spanish, choose to associate with other Spanish speakers, choose to celebrate Mexican holidays, celebrate Mexican traditions and culture. That's not allowed you aren't a real American for making the same choices I did.

Hey man as long as you aren't preaching violence or other obvious areas that shouldn't be tolerated than you're free to do whatever the hell you want, that's American culture, maybe its not what you'd choose to do but the hell kind of man thinks he has the right to tell someone else how to live.
 

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Well they have been hit hard by the crisis. The Netherlands are known for flowers and roses... not economic stability. Did you know that the first "global" financial bubble was because of the dutch (because of roses, it was a roses-bubble and a housing bubble later on)? Also, they were responsible for some of the first financial crises. Financial crisis isn't a modern invention, there were always such things in the world. The reason we know of the one from 1929 and this one as global financial crises is because globalization and the USA is the nexus of the world... before, even though Europe was the nexus of the world, as the USA was now, it was many countries. So if Spain had problems, it wouldn't cause a global economic collapse, just in Spain and the nations/territories that were depended heavily on them. Other european countries were fine and dandy.

They are doing very well debt-wise. Not even 80% in debt comparison to their GDP. Then again, they are still doing deficit spending and aren't quite AAA rating country. Their debt costs more.



That is true. In 2011, according to the census, nearly 5-6% of the population was islamic and people weren't happy because they felt that the experience of immigration from the arabic regions hasn't improved their country one bit.


The issue facing the Netherlands are happening because of the EU. The EU is horrible for keeping undesirable immigrants out because once your in the EU you can go anywhere.
 

Ray410

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I thought our culture was one of individual freedom and expression, where I'm free to associate with whomever I want to to express myself in whatever ways I wish to. But God damn if I choose to speak Spanish, choose to associate with other Spanish speakers, choose to celebrate Mexican holidays, celebrate Mexican traditions and culture. That's not allowed you aren't a real American for making the same choices I did.

Hey man as long as you aren't preaching violence or other obvious areas that shouldn't be tolerated than you're free to do whatever the hell you want, that's American culture, maybe its not what you'd choose to do but the hell kind of man thinks he has the right to tell someone else how to live.

Understand that the issue in this thread is actually not your friends, but rather host country affordability of the seemingly bottomless immigrant dependency class and how the Dutch are attempting to solve that culture and economy destroying problem.
 
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Carjosse

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I like the article it points out they spend 100 million dollars on the royalty, he seems content with the money being given to him.
 

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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news

So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.

It used to be that family helped family. And those freeloaders? They were left to fend for themselves. We've lost family helping family.

We hide our parents assets so that "the state" can take care of them free in old people's homes . . . use unemployment compensation as a paid vacation . . . use food stamps to gamble with . . . give up our kids so that family members can be paid by their state's foster family system . . . the list of abuses in our good-intentioned helping hand programs has become a way of life. The political right is sick of it. The political left thinks we're baby killers.

Eventually, we'll get it. I hope it's soon enough.
 

Rainman05

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It used to be that family helped family. And those freeloaders? They were left to fend for themselves. We've lost family helping family.

We hide our parents assets so that "the state" can take care of them free in old people's homes . . . use unemployment compensation as a paid vacation . . . use food stamps to gamble with . . . give up our kids so that family members can be paid by their state's foster family system . . . the list of abuses in our good-intentioned helping hand programs has become a way of life. The political right is sick of it. The political left thinks we're baby killers.

Eventually, we'll get it. I hope it's soon enough.

This is true.
I personally am fortunate enough that my family, and our relatives, are very supportive of one another. I hope to maintain and carry this onward as my brother and cousins and I start our families in time (we're all in our very early 20s). Hopefully we'll all be in the same city in the future too.

But a friend of mine came from family that was sooo disconnected from one another that when we were in highschool, we went to this local pub for months... and only 3 months after we kept going there did my friend find out that he was 1st degree cousin with the bartender there by accident. They even have the same family name, yet they never met one another.
This is because he comes from a very cosmopolitan family.
 

Carjosse

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It used to be that family helped family. And those freeloaders? They were left to fend for themselves. We've lost family helping family.

We hide our parents assets so that "the state" can take care of them free in old people's homes . . . use unemployment compensation as a paid vacation . . . use food stamps to gamble with . . . give up our kids so that family members can be paid by their state's foster family system . . . the list of abuses in our good-intentioned helping hand programs has become a way of life. The political right is sick of it. The political left thinks we're baby killers.

Eventually, we'll get it. I hope it's soon enough.

Well for some it has become demographically impossible, most families now may only have one child if they have one at all. Then there is the issue of why should people be tied to where their families are.
 

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Who died and made that guy King???? :confused:

All this time I thought supporting a King was so 20th century, 18th century if you go by our Nation's history. Maybe he should move out of his government assisted housing, forgo the public dole and start cruising Monsterjob.com.
 

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So what? The Dutch King has about as much influence on What happens there as Liz does in Britain.
 

AliHajiSheik

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Well they have been hit hard by the crisis. The Netherlands are known for flowers and roses... not economic stability. Did you know that the first "global" financial bubble was because of the dutch (because of roses, it was a roses-bubble and a housing bubble later on)? Also, they were responsible for some of the first financial crises. Financial crisis isn't a modern invention, there were always such things in the world. The reason we know of the one from 1929 and this one as global financial crises is because globalization and the USA is the nexus of the world... before, even though Europe was the nexus of the world, as the USA was now, it was many countries. So if Spain had problems, it wouldn't cause a global economic collapse, just in Spain and the nations/territories that were depended heavily on them. Other european countries were fine and dandy.



They are doing very well debt-wise. Not even 80% in debt comparison to their GDP. Then again, they are still doing deficit spending and aren't quite AAA rating country. Their debt costs more.



That is true. In 2011, according to the census, nearly 5-6% of the population was islamic and people weren't happy because they felt that the experience of immigration from the arabic regions hasn't improved their country one bit.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the term "Going Dutch".
 

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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news




So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.

Nonsense, first of all the King declares nothing. He is delivering our version of the state of the Union in which the government (of which he is only the figurehead) is making known the new measures the government will be putting forward into parliament for parliamentary approval. The King only reads it out loud. It is a remnant of times when the king was the government and the person who decided those things (early part of the 19th century).


Secondly, it was not the end of the welfare state, what was said was the following:

Het is onmiskenbaar dat mensen in onze huidige netwerk- en informatiesamenleving mondiger en zelfstandiger zijn dan vroeger. Gecombineerd met de noodzaak om het tekort van de overheid terug te dringen, leidt dit ertoe dat de klassieke verzorgingsstaat langzaam maar zeker verandert in een participatiesamenleving. Van iedereen die dat kan, wordt gevraagd verantwoordelijkheid te nemen voor zijn of haar eigen leven en omgeving.

It is undeniable that people in our current networking and information based society have become more assertive and independent than in the past. When combining this with the necessity to lower the deficit of the government, it leads to the slow change of the classical welfare state into a participation society. Of anyone who can, it will be asked to take responsibility for their own live and environment.


First of all, all of these plans are nothing more than that. The current coalition does not have a majority in our senate and is dependent on the support of other parties to make these plans possible. Secondly, the welfare state will still exist but more efforts will be made to enable a bigger percentage of people who are now out of work into a work environment so that they can once again be able to pay their own way.

The end of the welfare state will not happen as only the liberals would like to see that happen and they are only about 20 percent of our population.
 

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The Dutch have been overwhelmed with illegal immigration, just as in the United States. Dutch Immigration has been from Eastern Europe, ours from Mexico, South America, Cuba and other Hispanic areas as well as now from all parts of Asia.

Apparently the Dutch have decided their culture is worth saving, while the American Liberals are giddy to see the unique American culture destroyed.

Overwhelmed? There are only about 0.6% illegals in the Netherlands. Hardly overwhelming and they do not have a lot of access to public funds so that is also not that much of a problem.

In the US the number of illegals is about 3.5% so about 5 to 6 times as much.

If anything our problem is with legal immigrants from North Africa and legal fugitives who have had real problem integrating in our society.
 

TheNextEra

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One way ticket to Amsterdam, please.

The grass always looks greener on the other side, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
 

Peter King

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Well they have been hit hard by the crisis. The Netherlands are known for flowers and roses... not economic stability. Did you know that the first "global" financial bubble was because of the dutch (because of roses, it was a roses-bubble and a housing bubble later on)? Also, they were responsible for some of the first financial crises. Financial crisis isn't a modern invention, there were always such things in the world. The reason we know of the one from 1929 and this one as global financial crises is because globalization and the USA is the nexus of the world... before, even though Europe was the nexus of the world, as the USA was now, it was many countries. So if Spain had problems, it wouldn't cause a global economic collapse, just in Spain and the nations/territories that were depended heavily on them. Other european countries were fine and dandy.



They are doing very well debt-wise. Not even 80% in debt comparison to their GDP. Then again, they are still doing deficit spending and aren't quite AAA rating country. Their debt costs more.

Wrong, we are good at economic stability but unlike other countries (due to our size) we are very very dependable on foreign trade. We have a small internal market known for people who save before they spend and not spend before they save. Our people do not go wild on credit and spend spend spend. We are especially dependent on Germany and when the German industry gets up to full power the Netherlands will follow suit (just a few months to a year or so lagging behind).

We however have been hit by prospecting on housing. Most people kept selling their houses and upgrading/uptrading to bigger and better houses with bigger and bigger housing loans. The growth in that was unsustainable. Then there was a problem with the percentage of interest. Dutch banks were hit by the housing bubble bursting in the US and a few had to ask help from our government to keep them healthy and profitable/to keep them alive. One bank had gotten in to such problems that the Dutch and Belgian governments had to nationalize the bank entirely.

With only one big housing loan provider left standing (because they do not trade much outside of the Netherlands/subprime investments) they were the only bank allowed to set the height of the interest on bank loans. Because the other banks had not been able to pay back every penny they loaned from out government, the European Union had forbidden them to lower the interest level because the EU was of the opinion that this would be state support for the banks in a battle for the housing loan market with the only bank that had not asked for government aid.

The housing bubble had to come to an end because it was becoming unsustainable. Especially because due to tax deduction the state pays part of the monthly interest payment that house owners have to pay to their bank, making it a lot more affordable to buy expensive houses.

That is true. In 2011, according to the census, nearly 5-6% of the population was islamic and people weren't happy because they felt that the experience of immigration from the arabic regions hasn't improved their country one bit.

No, that is BS because they were talking about illegal immigration, not legal immigration.
 

Rainman05

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Wrong, we are good at economic stability but unlike other countries (due to our size) we are very very dependable on foreign trade. We have a small internal market known for people who save before they spend and not spend before they save. Our people do not go wild on credit and spend spend spend. We are especially dependent on Germany and when the German industry gets up to full power the Netherlands will follow suit (just a few months to a year or so lagging behind).

We however have been hit by prospecting on housing. Most people kept selling their houses and upgrading/uptrading to bigger and better houses with bigger and bigger housing loans. The growth in that was unsustainable. Then there was a problem with the percentage of interest. Dutch banks were hit by the housing bubble bursting in the US and a few had to ask help from our government to keep them healthy and profitable/to keep them alive. One bank had gotten in to such problems that the Dutch and Belgian governments had to nationalize the bank entirely.

With only one big housing loan provider left standing (because they do not trade much outside of the Netherlands/subprime investments) they were the only bank allowed to set the height of the interest on bank loans. Because the other banks had not been able to pay back every penny they loaned from out government, the European Union had forbidden them to lower the interest level because the EU was of the opinion that this would be state support for the banks in a battle for the housing loan market with the only bank that had not asked for government aid.

The housing bubble had to come to an end because it was becoming unsustainable. Especially because due to tax deduction the state pays part of the monthly interest payment that house owners have to pay to their bank, making it a lot more affordable to buy expensive houses.



No, that is BS because they were talking about illegal immigration, not legal immigration.

Dutch fear rise in immigration as EU law changes - FT.com

Government gets tougher with illegal immigrants | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

This will answer the whole problem with immigration. No point in writing a wall of text when they are already written for me.

Every country that has suffered due to the economic crisis has the housing bubble to thank for an increase in that. Not just the USA had a housing bubble, most European countries did too. So that's nothing special.

On the matter of the recession: Dutch economy struggling to pull out of recession - central bank | Reuters
The central bank states that the chance for growth next year is very dependent on the austerity measures to actually work, or else, deeper recession.
 

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Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news




So the dutch will start dropping some of the social nets that are there for people. I think they realized the impossiiblity of their situation and the continuation of social security and other such programs for the future. We need a new paradigm to activate in for such things and I think the dutch are thinking towards the future.

As others have noted, while its a great idea, the King has no power to make it happen, and he lacks credibility given his family has been effectively living off the people. So its really meaningless.
 

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It used to be that family helped family. And those freeloaders? They were left to fend for themselves. We've lost family helping family.

We hide our parents assets so that "the state" can take care of them free in old people's homes . . . use unemployment compensation as a paid vacation . . . use food stamps to gamble with . . . give up our kids so that family members can be paid by their state's foster family system . . . the list of abuses in our good-intentioned helping hand programs has become a way of life. The political right is sick of it. The political left thinks we're baby killers.

Eventually, we'll get it. I hope it's soon enough.

Waxing nostalgia for a golden age that never existed.
 

Rainman05

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As others have noted, while its a great idea, the King has no power to make it happen, and he lacks credibility given his family has been effectively living off the people. So its really meaningless.

While I am a republican (not political republican, i mean one that advocates for a republic), there are monarchies in the world that are really, really good and whose benefits for having them far outweight the benefit of having an elected president. And I think one would argue that the economic benefits the royal dutch family bring may be worth the economic expenses.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/30/opinion/dutch-monarchy-lessons/index.html

The dutch monarchy is one of them.
And while the king hasn't got the powers that a head of state would have in a republic, he doesn't need them. The parliament approves of his message. They are in sync. It's not a contentious relationship.... well, the king just barely became king so there may be problems down the road, but so far, all is orange :)
 

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While I am a republican (not political republican, i mean one that advocates for a republic), there are monarchies in the world that are really, really good and whose benefits for having them far outweight the benefit of having an elected president. And I think one would argue that the economic benefits the royal dutch family bring may be worth the economic expenses.

Opinion: Dutch monarchs' lessons for world's royals - CNN.com

The dutch monarchy is one of them.
And while the king hasn't got the powers that a head of state would have in a republic, he doesn't need them. The parliament approves of his message. They are in sync. It's not a contentious relationship.... well, the king just barely became king so there may be problems down the road, but so far, all is orange :)

Well thats obvisouly up to the Dutch. I was only speaking as to his credibility on telling others to get off welfare. Being an american I likewise abhor nobility, no matter what benefit they bring. Individuals should not be worshipped and given special political status simply because they were born.
 
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