Dumbing Down Our Kids of Color

[jaypatriot]

None of this matters much in the long run if we can’t get mandatory quality pre-school for all students, and make child development a more important priority for households that view scholastic achievement as unnecessary or worse, elitist. Until then, we’re arguing over types of band-aids.

Are you suggesting that mandatory quality pre-school is going to save our education system?
How about a campaign to emphasize two-parent households for all children so they can see the benefit of a mother and father in their formative years?
That's a lot more important than pre-school.
I'm sorry. Did that sound racist suggesting that both (biological) parents would go far in preparing children for school and a broader society.?

 

[phoenix2020]

Are you suggesting that mandatory quality pre-school is going to save our education system?
How about a campaign to emphasize two-parent households for all children so they can see the benefit of a mother and father in their formative years?
That's a lot more important than pre-school.
I'm sorry. Did that sound racist suggesting that both (biological) parents would go far in preparing children for school and a broader society.?

No I think two parent households are more important than what teachers do or don't do as well. However I do not believe it is sufficient - both parents need to actually care about scholastic achievement. There are no shortage of two-parent households where each parent's interest in education extends little beyond how talented their progeny may be at sports. Our culture, across most demographics, tends to look down on scholastic achievement. It's treated as elitist, or shoved to the side with a casual "book smarts is nothing without street smarts" or the like. Most of our entertainment culture follows suit and, let's face it, our political culture and political class as well. I don't think what a teacher teaches (or doesn't) or what book they use (or don't) matters anywhere near as much as the cultural and societal factors that penalize scholastics + starting school late + shorter school years and longer vacation and shorter classroom hours than most of the developed world + families that don't cherish or prize education.

That's why I think this whole culture war about whether to devote 12 hours a school year to CRT or not is a whole nothingburger when elsewhere in the world students are studying their pants off at STEM to lead their nations to pole position in the century to come while we bicker about whether math is racist or about how teaching a child that native americans got a raw deal will hurt white people's feelings. It's ridiculous the amount of mental energy that is devoted to the things that don't actually matter much in the long run.

 

[Cassandra]

No I think two parent households are more important than what teachers do or don't do as well. However I do not believe it is sufficient - both parents need to actually care about scholastic achievement. There are no shortage of two-parent households where each parent's interest in education extends little beyond how talented their progeny may be at sports. Our culture, across most demographics, tends to look down on scholastic achievement. It's treated as elitist, or shoved to the side with a casual "book smarts is nothing without street smarts" or the like. Most of our entertainment culture follows suit and, let's face it, our political culture and political class as well. I don't think what a teacher teaches (or doesn't) or what book they use (or don't) matters anywhere near as much as the cultural and societal factors that penalize scholastics + starting school late + shorter school years and longer vacation and shorter classroom hours than most of the developed world + families that don't cherish or prize education.

That's why I think this whole culture war about whether to devote 12 hours a school year to CRT or not is a whole nothingburger when elsewhere in the world students are studying their pants off at STEM to lead their nations to pole position in the century to come while we bicker about whether math is racist or about how teaching a child that native americans got a raw deal will hurt white people's feelings. It's ridiculous the amount of mental energy that is devoted to the things that don't actually matter much in the long run.

As you can see from my posts, I largely agree with your position. But the only people who seem to be talking about CRT are conservatives and even they don't seem to be certain what it is. Its little more than a conservative talking point.
I assume we all want kids to thrive and it is hard to do so w/o basic skills in math and reading . But in my experience, H.School math tests are not basic! My kid took calculus in High School. Many American kids don't think high school math is relevant to their future careers as carpenters or fishermen. It is not irrational to make the calculation that you don't need Algebra. So much depends on how a person visualizes their future. The kids who apply themselves scholastically are the ones that have parents who demand a lot from them and who want them to go to college. I think we fail kids most by not identifying suitable career trajectories for kids who are not academically inclined. Its bizarre how our culture lionizes people who do nothing useful (influencers!? reality show stars?!) while disparaging people who choose useful trades like carpentry, plumbing, electrician etc.

 

[jaypatriot]

No I think two parent households are more important than what teachers do or don't do as well. However I do not believe it is sufficient - both parents need to actually care about scholastic achievement. There are no shortage of two-parent households where each parent's interest in education extends little beyond how talented their progeny may be at sports. Our culture, across most demographics, tends to look down on scholastic achievement. It's treated as elitist, or shoved to the side with a casual "book smarts is nothing without street smarts" or the like. Most of our entertainment culture follows suit and, let's face it, our political culture and political class as well. I don't think what a teacher teaches (or doesn't) or what book they use (or don't) matters anywhere near as much as the cultural and societal factors that penalize scholastics + starting school late + shorter school years and longer vacation and shorter classroom hours than most of the developed world + families that don't cherish or prize education.

That's why I think this whole culture war about whether to devote 12 hours a school year to CRT or not is a whole nothingburger when elsewhere in the world students are studying their pants off at STEM to lead their nations to pole position in the century to come while we bicker about whether math is racist or about how teaching a child that native americans got a raw deal will hurt white people's feelings. It's ridiculous the amount of mental energy that is devoted to the things that don't actually matter much in the long run.

OK, Well put. Can't argue with the thrust of your argument.
STEM along with the three Rs is really critical for this country.

CRT, the 1619 Project, making it easier for kids (with poor skills) to graduate are all garbage theories and goals.
Finding some way for kids to better appreciate the 3Rs is for more important.

 

[jaypatriot]

As you can see from my posts, I largely agree with your position. But the only people who seem to be talking about CRT are conservatives and even they don't seem to be certain what it is. Its little more than a conservative talking point.
I assume we all want kids to thrive and it is hard to do so w/o basic skills in math and reading . But in my experience, H.School math tests are not basic! My kid took calculus in High School. Many American kids don't think high school math is relevant to their future careers as carpenters or fishermen. It is not irrational to make the calculation that you don't need Algebra. So much depends on how a person visualizes their future. The kids who apply themselves scholastically are the ones that have parents who demand a lot from them and who want them to go to college. I think we fail kids most by not identifying suitable career trajectories for kids who are not academically inclined. Its bizarre how our culture lionizes people who do nothing useful (influencers!? reality show stars?!) while disparaging people who choose useful trades like carpentry, plumbing, electrician etc.

I liked most of your post.
But looking at your broad conclusion "the only people who seem to be talking about CRT are conservatives and even they don't seem to be certain what it is. Its little more than a conservative talking point".
Why should Conservatives be the only demographic that is concerned about a school system that highlights the importance of one's skin color.?
Why is it important to educate young students on the importance of race in this country?
Whatever happened to the teachings of Martin Luther King, the great civil rights leader, who told all of his followers to look at a person's character and not at the color of his/her skin? Do we need another MLK holiday to get people thinking about why there was an MLK in the first place?

PS. I know this is not a thread about CRT. But you did bring in up in your response.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I have never heard that one. African immigrants , Asian immigrants tend to be higher achievers than their white peers educationally- because they come from cultures/ families which value education.

Its worth noting that although students from China tend to become great test takers, they lag behind in things that cannot be tested, like creativity

African Immigrants Excel Highest In U.S. Academics

In America, African immigrants excel the most.

face2faceafrica.com

Because our immigration system as applied to Africans only takes the best and most intelligent ones, which is morally evil because we’re depriving African nations of their own elite by causing brain drain, and practically bad because if enough elite African immigrants are here doing better then the native population it will cause resentment.

America needs zero immigrants. We don’t need low skill immigrants because wages aren’t keeping up with inflation, and we shouldn’t take high skill immigrants because we are then depriving their home countries of their most talented people which is permanently stunting their development

 

[jaypatriot]

Because our immigration system as applied to Africans only takes the best and most intelligent ones, which is morally evil because we’re depriving African nations of their own elite by causing brain drain, and practically bad because if enough elite African immigrants are here doing better then the native population it will cause resentment.

America needs zero immigrants. We don’t need low skill immigrants because wages aren’t keeping up with inflation, and we shouldn’t take high skill immigrants because we are then depriving their home countries of their most talented people which is permanently stunting their development

I don't believe you are going to get a lot of agreement with your conclusion.
You're suggesting we should discourage high-skill immigrants from coming to our country because we should be concerned about a brain drain in a foreign country.

Maybe we should have been more sympathetic to the Germans because we furtively hustled 1600 high-skilled Germans out of their country at the end of WW II.

You are aware that China and India love the idea of sending their best and brightest to American to get the best education possible and many of those highly skilled and well educated foreigners end up living here and benefiting our country instead of their home countries. But many of them make a lot of money here and then return to their home countries armed with technology (acquired legally or otherwise) to benefit the countries of their birth.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I don't believe you are going to get a lot of agreement with your conclusion.
You're suggesting we should discourage high-skill immigrants from coming to our country because we should be concerned about a brain drain in a foreign country.

Maybe we should have been more sympathetic to the Germans because we furtively hustled 1600 high-skilled Germans out of their country at the end of WW II.

You are aware that China and India love the idea of sending their best and brightest to American to get the best education possible and many of those highly skilled and well educated foreigners end up living here and benefiting our country instead of their home countries. But many of them make a lot of money here and then return to their home countries armed with technology (acquired legally or otherwise) to benefit the countries of their birth.

1) we should be concerned with brain drain in foreign countries because if we destabilize them then we will be told sob stories about why we need masses of chain migration from them. So we’re only going to increase the need for more people to try to come

2) we made a mistake there for sure. Von Braun could’ve done his work in west Germany.

3) another reason we shouldn’t take them. It is providing an Avenue for espionage in America, with no real benefit except American companies can replace Americans with compliant lower wage workers.

 

[jaypatriot]

1) we should be concerned with brain drain in foreign countries because if we destabilize them then we will be told sob stories about why we need masses of chain migration from them. So we’re only going to increase the need for more people to try to come

2) we made a mistake there for sure. Von Braun could’ve done his work in west Germany.

3) another reason we shouldn’t take them. It is providing an Avenue for espionage in America, with no real benefit except American companies can replace Americans with compliant lower wage workers.

I got a kick out of your second one. You don't understand that Von Braun would not have been allowed to remain in Germany.
The Russians wanted him as much as we did. He had no choice in the matter.

If you are a Conservative in Seattle then more power to you and the best of luck.
That's like being a Conservative in the most liberal part of the West Coast.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I got a kick out of your second one. You don't understand that Von Braun would not have been allowed to remain in Germany.
The Russians wanted him as much as we did. He had no choice in the matter.

If you are a Conservative in Seattle then more power to you and the best of luck.
That's like being a Conservative in the most liberal part of the West Coast.

Regardless of what we did with Werner von Braun, there is no reason to mass import non Americans into America

 

[jaypatriot]

Regardless of what we did with Werner von Braun, there is no reason to mass import non Americans into America

It worked out pretty well with the Vietnamese and the Hmong from Laos.
You don't think hard working people from Asia are an asset to this country?

 

[calamity]

Yes, Gov Kate Brown of OR is another 'woke' idiot wants to pander to people of color.
Let's lower education standards so that everyone can get through high school and not have to worry about the hard tasks of reading and writing.
That makes sense after years of telling people of color that in order to get ahead in this challenging world they need to learn how to read and write. Maybe even be able to count to one hundred without using your fingers.

I know, I know, I live in a state that is even nuttier than its southern neighbor CA.

What is wrong with Progressives who believe they are helping people of color?

We live in an upside-down world where Progressives of all stripes will come to the Gov's aid to justify her hurting people of color - including parents who will be raising uneducated kids.

Michael Reagan​

8/14/2021 12:01:00 AM - Michael Reagan​

"Only in our upside-down and dumb world of woke politics, which assumes that only white kids can learn to read and count, could someone actually believe that the futures of kids of color will be helped by lowering education standards. Black and brown parents in Oregon and every major U.S. city who can’t afford private schools, or who are unable to homeschool their kids, should be marching and protesting and raising hell with local politicians of both parties.
Instead, they’re being taught Critical Race Theory, a racist and twisted way of looking at our history that teaches school kids to hate America and hate white people.
I’m also glad Martin Luther King Jr. is dead, so he can’t see how our failed educators are using the BS of Critical Race Theory to judge people by the color of their skin and not their character."

No one raises more ignorant kids than white Evangelical Christians. Hell, those morons believe humanity emerged from Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. Then, God flooded the earth (when exactly is a giant mystery), and now we are all offspring of Noah. Now, that's nuts.

It doesn't matter that you can read, if what you read is insane.

 

[jaypatriot]

No one raises more ignorant kids than white Evangelical Christians. Hell, those morons believe humanity emerged from Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. Then, God flooded the earth (when exactly is a giant mystery), and now we are all offspring of Noah. Now, that's nuts.

It doesn't matter that you can read, if what you read is insane.

I take it you don't go to church on a weekly basis.
Or you don't like good stories that have been around for a couple of thousand years.

 

[calamity]

I take it you don't go to church on a weekly basis.
Or you don't like good stories that have been around for a couple of thousand years.

lol

 

[Rogue Valley]

Or you don't like good stories that have been around for a couple of thousand years.

Tales that can be found in other previous or contemporary civilizations.

 

[JerryW]

emphasize two-parent households for all children so they can see the benefit of a mother and father in their formative years?
That's a lot more important than pre-school.

Data, please.

 

[mrjurrs]

Yes, Gov Kate Brown of OR is another 'woke' idiot wants to pander to people of color.
Let's lower education standards so that everyone can get through high school and not have to worry about the hard tasks of reading and writing.
That makes sense after years of telling people of color that in order to get ahead in this challenging world they need to learn how to read and write. Maybe even be able to count to one hundred without using your fingers.

I know, I know, I live in a state that is even nuttier than its southern neighbor CA.

What is wrong with Progressives who believe they are helping people of color?

We live in an upside-down world where Progressives of all stripes will come to the Gov's aid to justify her hurting people of color - including parents who will be raising uneducated kids.

Michael Reagan​

8/14/2021 12:01:00 AM - Michael Reagan​

"Only in our upside-down and dumb world of woke politics, which assumes that only white kids can learn to read and count, could someone actually believe that the futures of kids of color will be helped by lowering education standards. Black and brown parents in Oregon and every major U.S. city who can’t afford private schools, or who are unable to homeschool their kids, should be marching and protesting and raising hell with local politicians of both parties.
Instead, they’re being taught Critical Race Theory, a racist and twisted way of looking at our history that teaches school kids to hate America and hate white people.
I’m also glad Martin Luther King Jr. is dead, so he can’t see how our failed educators are using the BS of Critical Race Theory to judge people by the color of their skin and not their character."

Here's an idea, fund public schools equitably.

 

[jaypatriot]

Here's an idea, fund public schools equitably.

Can't be done. The DoE, the States, and teachers unions could never agree on what would be considered 'equitable funding'.

Equal to what? Like giving every school district in every state the same amount of funding?

 

[jaypatriot]

Data, please.

I'll do more research when it is beneficial to do so.

 

[JerryW]

I'll do more research when it is beneficial to do so.

So, it's just your opinion based on your opinion...

 

[jaypatriot]

So, it's just your opinion based on your opinion...

It is not just my opinion based on my opinion. There is study after study that show the benefits of growing up in a two-parent family.
Do you have a reason to prove otherwise? If so, prove my opinion wrong.

read one the many articles here:

childern benefit from having a two parent family - Yahoo Search Results

search.yahoo.com

What Are the Benefits of a Two-Parent Household?​

By: Suzanna Didier

●

13 June, 2017

Even with the rise in single-parent families, most children still live in two-parent households. Depending on the state, anywhere from 53 to 79 percent lived with two parents in 2011, according to the national KIDS COUNT program. Although many children raised in single-parent homes become successful adults, studies shows that children living in well-functioning, two-parent families have several advantages.

References

• The Annie E. Casey Foundation: Children in Single-Parent Families (Percent) – 2011
• Cornell University’s Community & Rural Development Institute: Are Both Parents Always Better than One? . . .
• Health Affairs: Family Structure and Children’s Physical and Mental Health
• Policy Institute for Family Impact Seminars: Why Single Parenthood Affects Children
• Educationally At-Risk College Students from Single-Parent and Two-Parent Households . . .

 

[Bodi]

Don't raise the bridge, lower the water. The very idea of lowing standards so blacks, latinos, or other minority groups can "achieve equality" is a farce and does the opposite of getting them to that goal. Equal means equal and liberals don't seem to understand the damage they do to minorities or they just don't care.

@ttwtt78640 @jaypatriot @nota bene

This post was kinda to a few posts that I read.

Standards for passing in New Zealand at the high levels is very high... the problem is that the standards for " just passing" are extremely low. To have a C Average in the States you need 70%, obviously. To be on a sports team in CA when I was in high school you needed at least a D Average. My GPA was 3.5 or 3.6... can't remember. Anyway... here to just pass some assessments and classes you can pass with 50%, an F. There are zero standards for being on sports teams, as a nation. Kids can be failing and never showing up to school. The kids at the low end of the spectrum are failing just like they would have had the standards been higher... but what we are seeing is that since it is so easy to "just pass" kids often say, "is that all I have to do" and when we encourage them to go for a higher grade they say that they can't be bothered. MORE kids are failing, in my opinion... because of lower standards.

 

[mrjurrs]

Can't be done. The DoE, the States, and teachers unions could never agree on what would be considered 'equitable funding'.

Equal to what? Like giving every school district in every state the same amount of funding?

Like removing the value of the neighborhood property from the funding formula. Is there a reason that every school district in America doesn't receive a similar level of funding?

 

[jaypatriot]

Like removing the value of the neighborhood property from the funding formula. Is there a reason that every school district in America doesn't receive a similar level of funding?

Yes. Politics and not all districts are equal. Just like not all people are equal when it comes to being able to make money, get a job, create a stable family environment.
Equity is not the objective here. Equal opportunity results in some school districts better able to afford better schools than others.
Ask Obama and other limousine Liberals where they send their kids to schools.
Not to a public school funded by the federal or state government.

 

[mrjurrs]

Yes. Politics and not all districts are equal. Just like not all people are equal when it comes to being able to make money, get a job, create a stable family environment.
Equity is not the objective here. Equal opportunity results in some school districts better able to afford better schools than others.
Ask Obama and other limousine Liberals where they send their kids to schools.
Not to a public school funded by the federal or state government.

In America, equality means equality before the law and equal opportunity. Why are you against providing equal opportunity for all of America's students? I'm not okay with missing the next Jonas Salk just because the student was born in the wrong zip code.