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Drop the charges against Scooter Libby

Navy Pride

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Now that Bob Woodward has come forward with this the charges against Scooter Libby should be dropped immediately...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051117News015.asp

Libby not source of leak, Watergate reporter says
Undisclosed official revealed Plame’s identity to Woodward.

Published Thursday, November 17, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) - Bob Woodward’s version of when and where he learned the identity of a CIA operative contradicts a special prosecutor’s contention that Vice President Dick Cheney’s top aide was the first to make the disclosure to reporters.
 

Simon W. Moon

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None of what Woodward says makes what Libby's in trouble for saying the truth.
If you'll remember, Libby's not charged with being "first to make the disclosure to reporters." He's charged with "forgetting" at least a month long series of conversations and requests for classified information re the Wilsons, Niger etc. Woodward doesn't change that.
 

aps

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You have got to be kidding me, Navy Pride. Did you read the whole article? Here are 4 important paragraphs:

Attorneys for the aide, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, described yesterday’s statement by the Washington Post’s assistant managing editor as helpful for their defense, although Libby is charged with lying to a grand jury and the FBI, not with disclosing the CIA official’s name.

Libby, Cheney’s former chief of staff, was indicted last month on charges that he lied to FBI agents and a grand jury about when he learned Plame’s identity and how he subsequently disclosed it to reporters.

"As a defense attorney, I’d try to make as much of this as I possibly could to call into question the completeness of the investigation and raise concerns about a rush to judgment." However, he said, "I’m not sure at the end of the day that it hurts the trial of this case."

Robert Ray, a former independent counsel, said the Woodward disclosure won’t help Libby if his defense is that he wasn’t the only official leaking Plame’s identity. "The point was: Did you make false statements and perjure yourself?" Ray said.

The indictment is silent as to an accusation that Libby was the first official to leak her name. In his press conference, Fitzgerald said that Libby was the first official "KNOWN" to have leaked her name, which is a true statement, as he did not know of anyone else. Regardless, the indictment was not premised on Libby being the first official to leak her name--it was based upon his contradictory statements.

The chances of this case being dismissed are ZERO. If you noticed, none of the legal experts in that article said that the case should be dismissed (as opposed to some saying it bolsters Libby's defense). They know that it won't happen.
 

knicksin2010

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I have no legal backround and know very little about the case, except what I read in the idictment and what I've gathered from the news. So someone please explain to me how this has any effect on the idictment? I don't get it. I was baffled by the media's reports on this, acting like it could get libby off the hook because it doesn't appear to affect the indictment at all. :confused:
 

TimmyBoy

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Navy Pride said:
Now that Bob Woodward has come forward with this the charges against Scooter Libby should be dropped immediately...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051117News015.asp

Libby not source of leak, Watergate reporter says
Undisclosed official revealed Plame’s identity to Woodward.

Published Thursday, November 17, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) - Bob Woodward’s version of when and where he learned the identity of a CIA operative contradicts a special prosecutor’s contention that Vice President Dick Cheney’s top aide was the first to make the disclosure to reporters.

He is charged with making false statements. He is not charged with leaking the name of the CIA agent, so by law, Libby can still be charged whether or not he was responsible for leaking the CIA agent's name. You never ever give a false statement to cover for somebody during an investigation or lie to a grand jury or in a court room. Of course, it's been done many times, but it always seems to come back on those people who do it.
 

TimmyBoy

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knicksin2010 said:
I have no legal backround and know very little about the case, except what I read in the idictment and what I've gathered from the news. So someone please explain to me how this has any effect on the idictment? I don't get it. I was baffled by the media's reports on this, acting like it could get libby off the hook because it doesn't appear to affect the indictment at all. :confused:
He can still be charged for what he was charged for if he in fact did lie. He doesn't have to be guilty of revealing the identity of the CIA agent, but he can still be found guilty of making false statements or giving false statements. Sometimes friends will cover for their other friends who have committed a crime by lying to investigators or a grand jury, but if you do that, then you will be charged with a crime when your story is not consistent and colloborated with other peoples' testimony or statements. But if somebody who has come under investigation is lying either because he is guilty or because he is covering for somebody who committed the crime being investigated, they will slowly and gradually break you down, and play your best friends against you. That's how it works, you think you got friends, until you come under investigation, then they will use pressure tatics and what you thought were your best friends against you. They will slowly and gradually break you if you are covering up something. It's a cat and mouse game and mind game. Some people do not break though, who might be guilty, but generally most people do. They smoke it out of you.
 

knicksin2010

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TimmyBoy said:
He can still be charged for what he was charged for if he in fact did lie. He doesn't have to be guilty of revealing the identity of the CIA agent, but he can still be found guilty of making false statements or giving false statements. Sometimes friends will cover for their other friends who have committed a crime by lying to investigators or a grand jury, but if you do that, then you will be charged with a crime when your story is not consistent and colloborated with other peoples' testimony or statements.
I understand that, I just don't understand why the poster of this thread and seemingly others think this clears libby :confused:

I was listening to talk radio awhile back and the host was going on and on about things completely irrelevant to the indictment like they were going to clear him.
 

aps

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knicksin2010 said:
I have no legal backround and know very little about the case, except what I read in the idictment and what I've gathered from the news. So someone please explain to me how this has any effect on the idictment? I don't get it. I was baffled by the media's reports on this, acting like it could get libby off the hook because it doesn't appear to affect the indictment at all. :confused:
Hey knicks. It won't have any effect on the indictment. The crimes that Libby is accused of do not rest on being the first official to discuss Valerie Plame to someone who did not have the security clearance to receive that information.

There are arguments both for and against whether this is a boost for Libby. Based on what I have seen and read, it does nothing for him. I am a lawyer, by the way, but I do not work in criminal law.
 

TimmyBoy

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knicksin2010 said:
I understand that, I just don't understand why the poster of this thread and seemingly others think this clears libby :confused:

I was listening to talk radio awhile back and the host was going on and on about things completely irrelevant to the indictment like they were going to clear him.

It's because they don't understand the law.
 

Old and wise

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Navy Pride said:
Now that Bob Woodward has come forward with this the charges against Scooter Libby should be dropped immediately...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051117News015.asp

Libby not source of leak, Watergate reporter says
Undisclosed official revealed Plame’s identity to Woodward.

Published Thursday, November 17, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) - Bob Woodward’s version of when and where he learned the identity of a CIA operative contradicts a special prosecutor’s contention that Vice President Dick Cheney’s top aide was the first to make the disclosure to reporters.
Is that like the undisclosed location that Cheney hides at every time something important happens?:rofl

Get real. If he is innocent, he will be found innocent. He has nothing to fear if he didn't do anything wrong. Or do you question the justice system in our country?
 

aps

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knicksin2010 said:
I understand that, I just don't understand why the poster of this thread and seemingly others think this clears libby :confused:

I was listening to talk radio awhile back and the host was going on and on about things completely irrelevant to the indictment like they were going to clear him.
I agree. There are legal experts who say that Libby's attorneys are making it seem as though it exonerates him, which is merely just defense :spin:
 

26 X World Champs

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Navy Pride said:
Now that Bob Woodward has come forward with this the charges against Scooter Libby should be dropped immediately...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051117News015.asp
Amazingly clueless thread! :ws Valerie Wilson's identity has ZERO to do with Libby's indictment.

Remember what I told you Navy? Next time you start a thread write the exact opposite of what your basic instincts are telling you to write. Go 180 degrees away from what you "think".

Libby will be tried in a court and then we will know if he is guilty or not. Posting a thread suggesting that because of a secret testimony given by Woodward exonerates Libby or anyone is just plain ignorant.

Tell you what this does raise, however, is WHO TOLD WOODWARD? The rumor mill is that it's Cheney, which has the potential to be a whole new can of worms.

Woodward said he had permission from his source to testify but to not reveal in public who the source is. Sounds to many people like Cheney...

Time will tell, until then we can guess or speculate or whatever.

One thing is for certain, or as Navy likes to say, you can book this: Libby's charges will not be dropped. He will either go to trial or cop a plea.
 
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TimmyBoy

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26 X World Champs said:
Amazingly clueless thread! :ws Valerie Wilson's identity has ZERO to do with Libby's indictment.

Remember what I told you Navy? Next time you start a thread write the exact opposite of what your basic instincts are telling you to write. Go 180 degrees away from what you "think".

Libby will be tried in a court and then we will know if he is guilty or not. Posting a thread suggesting that because of a secret testimony given by Woodward exonerates Libby or anyone is just plain ignorant.

Tell you what this does raise, however, is WHO TOLD WOODWARD? The rumor mill is that it's Cheney, which has the potential to be a whole new can of worms.

Woodward said he had permission from his source to testify but to not reveal in public who the source is. Sounds to many people like Cheney...

Time will tell, until then we can guess or speculate or whatever.

One thing is for certain, or as Navy likes to say, you can book this: Libby's charges will not be dropped. He will either go to trial or cop a plea.
What a great post man. You must be from NY ha ha ha ha !
 

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Drop the charges? Seek to protect those who would lie about a possible act of treason? Anybody who supports our troops would never, ever, attempt to apologize for someone who has lied to a grand jury in attempt to exonerate themself from their own conscience. To think that nothing is going on here and that Libby should not be pressed for more intelligence is like saying that Osama Bin Laden should not be an icon of our regression. Amazing.
 

cnredd

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[Moderator mode]

Moved this thread to the appropriate forum...

[/Moderator mode]
 

jallman

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You notice chief navy has been pretty quiet since everyone piped in. Now I find that hilarious.
 

galenrox

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Navy Pride said:
Now that Bob Woodward has come forward with this the charges against Scooter Libby should be dropped immediately...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051117News015.asp

Libby not source of leak, Watergate reporter says
Undisclosed official revealed Plame’s identity to Woodward.

Published Thursday, November 17, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) - Bob Woodward’s version of when and where he learned the identity of a CIA operative contradicts a special prosecutor’s contention that Vice President Dick Cheney’s top aide was the first to make the disclosure to reporters.
You know that Scooter wasn't indicted for leaking anything, right? He was indicted for perjury, and considering you've got a stated stance on what should happen to administration officials going all the way to the top when they commit perjury, I don't know how you could possibly claim that Scooter shouldn't be brought up on charges.
 

Navy Pride

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jallman said:
You notice chief navy has been pretty quiet since everyone piped in. Now I find that hilarious.
We shall see what happens my friend.........I have heard a lot of pundits on the news say that the charges against him might be dropped.......

Time will tell.........
 

aps

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Navy Pride said:
We shall see what happens my friend.........I have heard a lot of pundits on the news say that the charges against him might be dropped.......

Time will tell.........
Now, Navy Pride, I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. ;)
 

Navy Pride

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Navy Pride said:
We shall see what happens my friend.........I have heard a lot of pundits on the news say that the charges against him might be dropped.......

Time will tell.........
Like Clinton did when he pardoned Mark Rich on the last day of his presidency it would be great to see President Bush pardon Libby if he is ever convicted.....

Would that ever torque the jaws of the left.......:lol:
 

aps

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Navy Pride said:
Like Clinton did when he pardoned Mark Rich on the last day of his presidency it would be great to see President Bush pardon Libby if he is ever convicted.....

Would that ever torque the jaws of the left.......:lol:
Now that is possible, Navy Pride. But that won't bother me at all. Look at Nixon. He was pardoned, but that didn't change the fact that people saw him for what he was--a crook.
 

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Navy Pride said:
We shall see what happens my friend.........I have heard a lot of pundits on the news say that the charges against him might be dropped.......

Time will tell.........
I heard a lot of pundits on the news say the dems would viciously block Miers confirmation, but she would be confirmed unanimously by the Republicans anyways.
 

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Navy Pride said:
Like Clinton did when he pardoned Mark Rich on the last day of his presidency it would be great to see President Bush pardon Libby if he is ever convicted.....

Would that ever torque the jaws of the left.......:lol:
So basically, you would see our president commit an unfair act on the last days of his presidency just to make a stab at the other side. No wonder America is falling to pieces and the conservatives look the way they do...
 

Navy Pride

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aps said:
Now, Navy Pride, I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. ;)
We shall see my friend....Hey how is that little situation we discussed working out for you? I am glad you will make the right decision if it comes to pass.........
 
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