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Drone Blowback in Pakistan is a Myth [W:24, 57]

Jack Hays

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Drone strikes don't create revenge-seeking enemies. In the areas where they are used most, they are welcomed.

Drone blowback in Pakistan is a myth. Here’s why.


What do the people who actually live in targeted areas think about drone strikes? You might be surprised.




". . . Broadly speaking, the interview data do not support the blowback thesis. More specifically, the data contradict the presumed local radicalization effects of drones. In fact, 79 percent of the respondents endorsed drones. In sharp contrast to claims about the
significant civilian death toll from drone strikes, 64 percent, including several living in villages close to strike locations, believed that drone strikes accurately targeted militants. While many interviewees did specifically point to pre-2012 “signature strikes,” which targeted groups of men based on behavior patterns rather than individual identity, as the cause of occasionally high fatalities, 56 percent believed drones seldom killed non-militants. And as the Crisis Group and Georgetown’s Christine Fair have noted, most locals prefer drones to the Pakistan military’s ground and aerial offensives that cause more extensive damage to civilian life and property. . . ."
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Drone strikes don't create revenge-seeking enemies. In the areas where they are used most, they are welcomed.

Drone blowback in Pakistan is a myth. Here’s why.


What do the people who actually live in targeted areas think about drone strikes? You might be surprised.




". . . Broadly speaking, the interview data do not support the blowback thesis. More specifically, the data contradict the presumed local radicalization effects of drones. In fact, 79 percent of the respondents endorsed drones. In sharp contrast to claims about the
significant civilian death toll from drone strikes, 64 percent, including several living in villages close to strike locations, believed that drone strikes accurately targeted militants. While many interviewees did specifically point to pre-2012 “signature strikes,” which targeted groups of men based on behavior patterns rather than individual identity, as the cause of occasionally high fatalities, 56 percent believed drones seldom killed non-militants. And as the Crisis Group and Georgetown’s Christine Fair have noted, most locals prefer drones to the Pakistan military’s ground and aerial offensives that cause more extensive damage to civilian life and property. . . ."
Interesting article.

While I am still a bit on the fence with regards using drones, the Pew polling, Assoicated Press analysis and this fairly extensive interviewing of those closest and potentially most affected by these strikes, their realistic attitudes towards who the drone strikes are actually targeting and at which they are directed as well as the understanding of the minimal collateral damage to those not really caught up in jihadi related activities is, well, very encouraging.
 

oneworld2

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So are we to conclude that people actually like to be under threat of death at any given moment at the hands of a drone operator ?

What utter guff

There are two clues in this article that should have been noted and the conclusions it draws questioned as a result

1. The Pakistani authorities " Secretly endorsed these strikes ( drone strikes ).................. one wonders if they had a choice IE did they agree after the event to hide their lack of control over US military operatives operating from within their sovereign territory ?

2. " Access to the respondents was made possible by the Pakistani military’s June 2014 offensive ".......................... hand picked ?.............. too scared to state their true feelings whilst in the midsts of the Pakistani military ?



Maybe they should talk to the people who have lost family members or family homes or both in these strikes. My guess would be that they wouldn't be buying bunches of flowers for the people responsible for blighting/destroying their lives
 

Jack Hays

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So are we to conclude that people actually like to be under threat of death at any given moment at the hands of a drone operator ?

What utter guff

There are two clues in this article that should have been noted and the conclusions it draws questioned as a result

1. The Pakistani authorities " Secretly endorsed these strikes ( drone strikes ).................. one wonders if they had a choice IE did they agree after the event to hide their lack of control over US military operatives operating from within their sovereign territory ?

2. " Access to the respondents was made possible by the Pakistani military’s June 2014 offensive ".......................... hand picked ?.............. too scared to state their true feelings whilst in the midsts of the Pakistani military ?



Maybe they should talk to the people who have lost family members or family homes or both in these strikes. My guess would be that they wouldn't be buying bunches of flowers for the people responsible for blighting/destroying their lives

Your "guess" is just that.
 

Sherman123

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Drone strikes don't create revenge-seeking enemies. In the areas where they are used most, they are welcomed.

Drone blowback in Pakistan is a myth. Here’s why.


What do the people who actually live in targeted areas think about drone strikes? You might be surprised.




". . . Broadly speaking, the interview data do not support the blowback thesis. More specifically, the data contradict the presumed local radicalization effects of drones. In fact, 79 percent of the respondents endorsed drones. In sharp contrast to claims about the
significant civilian death toll from drone strikes, 64 percent, including several living in villages close to strike locations, believed that drone strikes accurately targeted militants. While many interviewees did specifically point to pre-2012 “signature strikes,” which targeted groups of men based on behavior patterns rather than individual identity, as the cause of occasionally high fatalities, 56 percent believed drones seldom killed non-militants. And as the Crisis Group and Georgetown’s Christine Fair have noted, most locals prefer drones to the Pakistan military’s ground and aerial offensives that cause more extensive damage to civilian life and property. . . ."

It's why US policy isn't directed by what the Bureau of Investigative Journalism (BIG) screams about.
 

oneworld2

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Your "guess" is just that.

Based on the two points I gave ( that you couldn't/wouldn't respond to ) it's quite a logical conclusion. Much more logical than thinking the extrajudicial killing of people and anyone unlucky enough to be in the vicinity or mistakenly identified as " terrorists " wins you friends in the targeted population. That's the stuff of nonsense imo
 

Jack Hays

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Based on the two points I gave ( that you couldn't/wouldn't respond to ) it's quite a logical conclusion. Much more logical than thinking the extrajudicial killing of people and anyone unlucky enough to be in the vicinity or mistakenly identified as " terrorists " wins you friends in the targeted population. That's the stuff of nonsense imo

You don't know enough to have an opinion worth consideration. The bottom line fact is that the population of the targeted areas is the population that benefits most from the strikes. They know this. Ever been to Pakistan? Afghanistan? I have.
 

oneworld2

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You don't know enough to have an opinion worth consideration.

Get over yourself , Ive probably forgotten more than you know



The bottom line fact is that the population of the targeted areas is the population that benefits most from the strikes. They know this. Ever been to Pakistan? Afghanistan? I have.

In your dreams maybe.

How many did you kill in Afghanistan/Pakistan ? And did they thank you with their last breathe ?

Stuff and nonsense
 

Jack Hays

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Get over yourself , Ive probably forgotten more than you know





In your dreams maybe.

How many did you kill in Afghanistan/Pakistan ? And did they thank you with their last breathe ?

Stuff and nonsense

The people of Pakistan appreciate the drone strikes.
 

oneworld2

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The people of Pakistan appreciate the drone strikes.

According the article in the OP were they state that the people interviewed have been selected by the Pakistani military. The same military that has been fighting against other Pakistanis and Afghans and is assisted in that by , guess what ? US drone strikes.

The carnage there is a direct result of the Russian and then the US led invasions and occupations of Afghanistan. That shouldn't be left out of this conversation either. Nor the fact that the Pakistani dictatorship of Ul Haq was the main player in the rise of the Taliban at the same time he enjoyed Western support .



There's nothing worse than listening to someone absolving themselves from their own crimes by claiming that their victims " appreciate " it
 

Hawkeye10

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Far be it from me to argue with a poll with a sample size of 147 but I will point out that three times as many Pakistanis look upon the USA unfavorably as do favorably, and for most of my life America has invested heavily into Pakistan and tried mightily to look the other way when they do bad **** so that aint great. I also suggest that if we want to know what radicalizes people that we study people who have been radicalized, but maybe that is just my silly idea. *SARCASM*


EDIT: Aqil Shah looks to be a very interesting guy, and have taken note of his argument and evidence.
 
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Jack Hays

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According the article in the OP were they state that the people interviewed have been selected by the Pakistani military. The same military that has been fighting against other Pakistanis and Afghans and is assisted in that by , guess what ? US drone strikes.

The carnage there is a direct result of the Russian and then the US led invasions and occupations of Afghanistan. That shouldn't be left out of this conversation either. Nor the fact that the Pakistani dictatorship of Ul Haq was the main player in the rise of the Taliban at the same time he enjoyed Western support .



There's nothing worse than listening to someone absolving themselves from their own crimes by claiming that their victims " appreciate " it

There is no US "crime" in the Afghanistan-Pakistan theater. Moreover, it requires breathtaking myopia to equate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with the US response to 9/11.
 

Thoreau72

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Based on the two points I gave ( that you couldn't/wouldn't respond to ) it's quite a logical conclusion. Much more logical than thinking the extrajudicial killing of people and anyone unlucky enough to be in the vicinity or mistakenly identified as " terrorists " wins you friends in the targeted population. That's the stuff of nonsense imo

Indeed, it is pure nonsense and sophistry, likely disinformation from some Pentagon or CIA related NGO.

This is like claiming that the Vietnamese people actually wanted some more of what Lt. Calley brought. Absurd.
 

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Indeed, it is pure nonsense and sophistry, likely disinformation from some Pentagon or CIA related NGO.

This is like claiming that the Vietnamese people actually wanted some more of what Lt. Calley brought. Absurd.

T-72, this analogy doesn't work. For one, the drone operators aren't intentionally killing civilians, while Lt.Calley's unit was.

While we're on the topic, the Vietnamese people probably weren't too found of their kids being forcibly conscripted to go off and die in huge numbers in a war of aggression against the South.
 

oneworld2

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Indeed, it is pure nonsense and sophistry, likely disinformation from some Pentagon or CIA related NGO.

This is like claiming that the Vietnamese people actually wanted some more of what Lt. Calley brought. Absurd.

To me the whole concept is crazy and only crazies or propagandists would buy into

Would these same people support Pakistani drone strikes taking out Americans living in Texas ? Or Afghan drone strikes taking out Londoners ?

Claptrap the lot of it
 

Jack Hays

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To me the whole concept is crazy and only crazies or propagandists would buy into

Would these same people support Pakistani drone strikes taking out Americans living in Texas ? Or Afghan drone strikes taking out Londoners ?

Claptrap the lot of it

Your ignorance of the wider world is painful to read.
 
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There is no US "crime" in the Afghanistan-Pakistan theater. Moreover, it requires breathtaking myopia to equate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with the US response to 9/11.

yeah after all, one was an unwanted invasion and the killing of civilians and the other one was...oh...wait a minute
 

oneworld2

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Your ignorance of the wider world is painful to read.

And your experience of the wider world seems only to have been seen through crosshairs..... nice
 
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Too ignorant to merit reply.

In other words you can't even formulate an argument. try thinking about how it feels to get invaded and bombs getting dropped on you.
 

oneworld2

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Too ignorant to merit reply.

Or too truthful for you to try to defend ?:roll:

Calling everyone here who disagrees with you " ignorant " is just plane lame. Defend your positions , assuming you can
 

Jack Hays

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And your experience of the wider world seems only to have been seen through crosshairs..... nice

No. I have been shot at but I've never shot at anyone. Pakistan is the world of honor killings and generational feuds. It is a world where the death of one's neighbor is commonly wished. It is a world where drone strikes on troublesome strangers are welcomed.
 

Jack Hays

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In other words you can't even formulate an argument. try thinking about how it feels to get invaded and bombs getting dropped on you.

Or too truthful for you to try to defend ?:roll:

Calling everyone here who disagrees with you " ignorant " is just plane lame. Defend your positions , assuming you can

The USSR invaded Afghanistan to execute an imperial design. The US invaded Afghanistan in response to an attack on our citizens. In Pakistan any view of foreigners is conditioned by what they're doing to your enemies.
 

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Moderator's Warning:
Gentlemen, there will be civility and an end to personal attacks and insinuations. My Drones are in the air, don't push it.
 

oneworld2

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There is no US "crime" in the Afghanistan-Pakistan theater. Moreover, it requires breathtaking myopia to equate the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with the US response to 9/11.


How many Afghans in those planes ? How many Saudis ?

The Taliban offered to hand over the people the US thought were behind the attacks if the US could provide some proof . That seems like a reasonable response in international relations. To invade and occupy the country for over a decade cannot be justified imo
 
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