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Drive-By shooters should go to prison for life.

MaggieD

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Eight people were shot -- one fatally -- in a drive-by shooting in which two men fired on a group of people at a home in the Lawndale neighborhood Saturday evening, authorities said. At least one of the shooters used a rifle and casings were recovered at the scene, police said. At least 67 people have been shot across the city since Wednesday afternoon this long holiday weekend, 11 fatally.
Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
 

ttwtt78640

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
There is not much here to comment on. You are correct that "the system" is broken. Out of these 67 recent shootings (11 fatal) how many resulted in even an arrest? What is usually missing are any witnesses, as they fear being placed on the drive by hit list themselves if they dare to give a police statement or (-gasp-) testify. You are addressing the possible sentences when there is no charge, trial or system in place to mete out any criminal sentence to begin with. If each trial took only one week then that ties up a judge, jury and courtroom for well over a year simply to deal with only 4 days of shooting crime.
 

RabidAlpaca

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There already is an appropriate crime category for this: murder.

Drive by shooters shoot indiscriminately and intend to kill, it's murder 1.

The bigger problem was brought up by ttwtt. The people in this neighborhood don't trust the cops enough to testify, so this violence will never stop. We have to clean up the communities from the inside.
 

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
I'd kill them by random shooting. Place them up against the wall and I'll have a computer randomly select where they're to be shot (foot, eye, dick, etc.). Repeat this process until they're clearly dead.
 

MaggieD

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I'd kill them by random shooting. Place them up against the wall and I'll have a computer randomly select where they're to be shot (foot, eye, dick, etc.). Repeat this process until they're clearly dead.
One of the 60+ injured over the holiday (which isn't over yet) was actually SHOT in the penis. Yikes.
 

Tigger

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Anyone using a firearm in the commission. Of a crime should be going to jail for life. No special conditions needed.... You get convicted of the crime and you had a gun with you at the time... Life without Parole. No other option.
 

WCH

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Allowing the 'good' citizens of the Chicago area to arm themselves would take care of many problems. JMO

Oh yea...and the death penalty. \m/
 

Ikari

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
You will not significantly affect the statistics by lengthening the punishment period for these forms of gang related crimes. First, we already throw more people into jail than any other country in the world. If this "jail time equals less crime" hypothesis were correct, we'd be the safest nation on the planet. One can argue that perhaps this sort of crime should carry more time with it as punishment, but we shouldn't think that increasing the time is going to change anything. It won't.

Many of the people involved in perpetrating these crimes have already resolved themselves to die on the streets or in jail and this is just part of that culture. The mentality is that through legal means, one will never advance and can not improve their lot, they are stuck, they are trapped, and acting in this manner is the only way to obtain any amount of relative wealth even though it's the morgue or the jailhouse. In many ways, they are correct. The death of economic mobility is trapping many of the very poor into the very poor state. And then you just hit up the cycle.

It's not individual levels that are going to produce any change. It's not even at the community level. "Cleaning up communities from the inside" is only part of the solution, but it's a socioeconomic driver and you have to start there to figure out if there is a solution and how to actually achieve it if you want to affect the overall statistics.
 

TurtleDude

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
last time I checked the penalties for shooting people with no justification got you a murder rap.

the only solution of course is creating an environment where such mopes are slain by the innocents they attack
 

TurtleDude

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You will not significantly affect the statistics by lengthening the punishment period for these forms of gang related crimes. First, we already throw more people into jail than any other country in the world. If this "jail time equals less crime" hypothesis were correct, we'd be the safest nation on the planet. One can argue that perhaps this sort of crime should carry more time with it as punishment, but we shouldn't think that increasing the time is going to change anything. It won't.

Many of the people involved in perpetrating these crimes have already resolved themselves to die on the streets or in jail and this is just part of that culture. The mentality is that through legal means, one will never advance and can not improve their lot, they are stuck, they are trapped, and acting in this manner is the only way to obtain any amount of relative wealth even though it's the morgue or the jailhouse. In many ways, they are correct. The death of economic mobility is trapping many of the very poor into the very poor state. And then you just hit up the cycle.

It's not individual levels that are going to produce any change. It's not even at the community level. "Cleaning up communities from the inside" is only part of the solution, but it's a socioeconomic driver and you have to start there to figure out if there is a solution and how to actually achieve it if you want to affect the overall statistics.
the first thing to do is to end the allure of one mope fathering 4-6 children with 3-5 "baby moms"-this is the source of many of those you speak of
 

Ikari

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the first thing to do is to end the allure of one mope fathering 4-6 children with 3-5 "baby moms"-this is the source of many of those you speak of
Perhaps, not 100% sure how you'd accomplish that though.
 

Carjosse

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I believe is already carries a life sentence as it is after all it is murder.
 
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CalGun

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A special designation (like hate crime) isn't probably going to deter gang members. Time to them in prison is not a deterrent at all. Yes life in prisonment, no possibility of parole, and all might help but to these animals I find that doubtful. I think before prison they should owe society about 12 years of "red brigade" military service so we have expendable troops when needed.
 

APACHERAT

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
Accidendtal gunshot wounds to the penis is very common. If they aren't accidental they shooter is usually a pissed off female.

11 confirmed kills out of 67 isn't anything to be proud of. The perps defiantly never went through Marine Corps marksmanship training. And they defiantly aren't your typical right wing conservatives who cling to their guns.

The Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department conducted a study a while back on drive-by shootings and found that 78% of the victims were not the intended targets but innocent bystanders.

The OP doesn't mention which "Lawndale" neighborhood this is. There's a Lawndale in L.A. County adjacent to Hawthorne where Hawthorne PD shot a dog. I'm going to assume that this isn't the Lawndale where these shootings took place because that Lawndale is patrolled by the Lennox sub station of the L.A. County Sheriffs Department who are known to be proactive instead of being progressive reactive when it comes to law enforcement. So this Lawndale neighborhood where the shootings took place must be in Obama's America, probably Chicago.

Another question is, where are these individuals in Obama's America getting their ammunition from ? Outside of Obama's America, law abiding citizens are having problems finding ammunition , the ammunition shelfs are empty !

This is because Obama's Department of Homeland Security is buying 1.6 BILLION rounds of rifle and pistol ammunition, enough to put six bullets in the head of every man, woman and child in America.

When you look back at Obama's "Fast and Furious" where the Obama administration was running guns across the border to supply the Mexican drug cartels with guns, do you think maybe Big Sis is supplying ammunition to Obama's America ? 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition is a significant quantity. The Syrian rebels only requested 200,000 rounds of ammunition from the Obama administration and they are fighting a civil war.
 

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
I'd be all for the death penalty in cases like this. Any crime which involved either intentionally killing or attempting to kill another person, or acting with that degree of extreme disregard for other lives resulting in anyone's death, in the absence of significant mitigating circumstances, ought to draw the death penalty by default.

I don't get why you are mentioning “hate-crime legislation” in connection with this. Hate-crime laws are bull**** that have nothing whatsoever to do with any legitimate concept of justice. It makes no sense whatsoever to mention the concept of hate crimes (which ought to be more accurately described as “thoughtcrimes” as described by Orwell) in connection with legitimate laws against actual crimes that cause actual harm.
 

radcen

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I agree this is an issue that needs attention, but I don't buy into hate-crime-like special penalties. Murder is murder and the penalty for such should be harsh regardless the motivation.
 

radcen

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There is not much here to comment on. You are correct that "the system" is broken. Out of these 67 recent shootings (11 fatal) how many resulted in even an arrest? What is usually missing are any witnesses, as they fear being placed on the drive by hit list themselves if they dare to give a police statement or (-gasp-) testify. You are addressing the possible sentences when there is no charge, trial or system in place to mete out any criminal sentence to begin with. If each trial took only one week then that ties up a judge, jury and courtroom for well over a year simply to deal with only 4 days of shooting crime.
How do we fix this? (honest question)

The only way that occurs to me is for the police to stop being so petty and draconian in poorer neighborhoods, and to lighten up on the so-called drug war. But, that takes a long time to sink in and have any affect. What do we do in the mean time?
 

Bob Blaylock

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Anyone using a firearm in the commission. Of a crime should be going to jail for life. No special conditions needed.... You get convicted of the crime and you had a gun with you at the time... Life without Parole. No other option.
You do realize that as badly broken as our society now is, that a law written according to the principle that you have just described would unavoidably end up being abused to put people in prison for life for a “crime” that consists of nothing more than legitimately exercising their rights as affirmed by the Second Amendment. As long as we allow our corrupt government to treat the exercise of this right as a “crime”, it is dangerous to give them any more authority than they have already illegitimately claimed to punish this “crime”.

I see no reason to single guns out in particular. The use of any deadly force, or threat thereof, against an innocent target, in the absence of mitigating circumstances, ought to be enough to call for a life-without-parole sentence, or death.
 

radcen

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You do realize that as badly broken as our society now is, that a law written according to the principle that you have just described would unavoidably end up being abused to put people in prison for life for a “crime” that consists of nothing more than legitimately exercising their rights as affirmed by the Second Amendment. As long as we allow our corrupt government to treat the exercise of this right as a “crime”, it is dangerous to give them any more authority than they have already illegitimately claimed to punish this “crime”.

I see no reason to single guns out in particular. The use of any deadly force, or threat thereof, against an innocent target, in the absence of mitigating circumstances, ought to be enough to call for a life-without-parole sentence, or death.
Sometimes I think that in Tigger's ideal world EVERYBODY would be arrested simply because... if they didn't actually do something wrong... they might have thought about it.
 

ttwtt78640

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How do we fix this? (honest question)

The only way that occurs to me is for the police to stop being so petty and draconian in poorer neighborhoods, and to lighten up on the so-called drug war. But, that takes a long time to sink in and have any affect. What do we do in the mean time?
My take is this basically: Each "side" will have to change attitudes, as you say, yet neither is very likely to want to do so. The thugs/gang folks will (must?) still rely on force to control drug/crime turf and the police certainly cannot ignore the source of this power/wealth and allow the thugs/gangs to increase their power (and the associated crime) by backing off on that front.

The only way that police/courts can really "back off" is to simply do more of what they are doing (wasting time responding to crime calls that "nobody" saw), plus ignoring all of the "small stuff" (crime that they do personally witness) and still not have any arrest power for anything "big" that they do not personally witness. I would actually advocte either one of two different things as a police/court change: 1) Ignore (completely) all crime not reported and backed up by reliable non-LEO witness statements or 2) really crack down and arrest and fully charge/sentence (as adults) everyone for every crime that they do see.

In order to have any chance for change the "black leaders" (community organizers?) are going to actually have to make the first move. These areas have indeed become the "tribal" lands, ruled by self appointed thugs/gangs that are more feared (respected?)than anything that the legal system can (is willing to?) do. The "good" people are going to have to accept either living in fear/control of thugs/gangs or cooperate by turning in friends and (-gasp-) family members involved in these criminal activities.
 

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?

I hear you but if we were to enforce the laws that are already on the books that would mean going into neighborhoods that have a fairly uniform demographic of certain races...protected races. There would be (is) tons of outrage over "profiling" and unfair prosecution based on race. Apparently it's much better to just let these fine folks shoot themselves up than to offend them by investigating and prosecuting the offenders.
 

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Originally Posted by MaggieD
Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.
A sad fact of a horrable crime.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.
A misguided idea that would only work assuming we catch all such crooks, and brought them to trail. Also would just be adding some more laws on something that is alreadly Illegal.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.
Innocents are always dying. What we're doing is working, but not perfectly. (nothing EVER will work perfectly) Get animals of the street? How? Put them where? if were not just going to kill them we need to feed/water/bath/house/guard them all that costs money/food/fresh water/personnel to do the guarding. And just becuse someone gets handed down a 'Life Sentance' dosen't mean that there is no possablity of perole. Even when thats in the sentance. Also is 75yr old who commited a horrable act at 18 the same evil person? (if you think so in all cases rewatch Shawsank Redemition.)

Its a good question but there are no perfect anwers. Only good enough for most to get by with anwers.
 

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Two shot were 5- and 7-year-old boys.

If we had special legislation (like hate-crime legislation) to cover drive-by shootings or shooting into a crowd that carried a life sentence, I think these drive-by shootings would stop.

Innocents are dying. What we're doing is obviously not working. Get these animals off the streets for good, I say.

You?
Prison is too good for them, where they can ply their art as a banger and cost us money. Let's try the "Chinese" method for awhile, and bill their families for the bullet. Think it will cause a change?
 

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I think most people have got the main idea, that increasing the punishment isn't the answer. First of all, it's already Murder 1, which carries a life sentence. Secondly, we need to catch them first. If witnesses are to come forth, police PR is a must. They don't trust cops and typically for good reasons if you keep the war on drugs in mind. I think this isn't the crime we need to worry about and should address it as a secondary effect of drug-prohibition; if we decrease illegal drug dealing in impoverished neighborhoods, these shootings would probably decrease, as well.
 
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