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Dr. Paul on the Islamic Cultural Center controversy

hazlnut

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Occasionally, this guy brilliantly sums up a issue. He make me want to move to Texas (his district).

From his website

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”
I'd like to hear what those against the Cultural Center have to say about Dr Paul's position. Especially our fringe-right friends. Come on, pick it apart.

Defend property rights, Bill of Rights, and your anti-mosque over Burlington Coat factory stance.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.
 

hazlnut

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Where are all the Tea people? Aren't they supposed to be Constitutionalists??

*crickets*
 

Johnny

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I did and do support their constitutional right to build it.

I'm only personally against it and it's my right to feel any way I want on any subject.
 

hazlnut

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more *crickets* from out far-right friends.

Anyone want to comment on the points raised by Dr. Paul.??
 

Agent Ferris

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Occasionally, this guy brilliantly sums up a issue. He make me want to move to Texas (his district).

From his website



I'd like to hear what those against the Cultural Center have to say about Dr Paul's position. Especially our fringe-right friends. Come on, pick it apart.

Defend property rights, Bill of Rights, and your anti-mosque over Burlington Coat factory stance.
Ron Paul's an idiot, he's answering a question no one asked. We all agree with their right to build the Mosque but it seems Ron Paul is opposed to our right of self ownership not to enter into a contractual obligation to trade our labour for their capital and our right of free speech to encourage others to do the same. He likewise tries to paint the man behind this Mosque as innocent and us as bigots when the fact is this man is an overt Sharia supporting Islamist attempting to build a Mega-Mosque at ground zero who has compared the U.S. unfavorably to AQ, has said that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, that OBL was made in the USA, and has refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, actually come to think of it, he and Ron Paul are ideological fellow travelers.

The inspiration behind 9-11 was purely motivated by religion, assertions to the contrary are a lie, if it were not for their religion they would not have been offended by the U.S. defending the Kingdom against the overt aggression from Saddam Hussein they would have been grateful for the U.S. spending it's blood and treasure to defend the Kingdom, it is only because of Islam that they see any infidel soldier on or near the holy dirt of Mecca and Medina as an occupation, so congrats Ron Paul you are and wrong as usual. Ron Paul go read some Sayyid Qutb, study up on Qutb's formulation on the concept of Jahiliyya or STFU.

We do not see all Muslims as being responsible for 9-11 but we certainly recognize the causal relationship that the Islamist ideology had to play in the attacks and now we are pointing to the words and actions of a specific overt Islamist and saying "hey this **** aint right," and now we're being labeled bigots for having the audacity to exercise our first amendment rights to encourage others to exercise their individual right of self ownership not to enter into contractual obligations to trade their labour for their capital? Sorry that **** doesn't fly Mr. Paul you can't have it both ways, you don't get to defend the property and 1st amendment rights of overt Islamists and try to deny the very same rights to us or critisize us for exercising them, you are a hypocrite Mr. Paul of the highest order.
 

hazlnut

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Ron Paul's an idiot, he's answering a question no one asked. We all agree with their right to build the Mosque but it seems Ron Paul is opposed to our right of self ownership not to enter into a contractual obligation to trade our labour for their capital and our right of free speech to encourage others to do the same. He likewise tries to paint the man behind this Mosque as innocent and us as bigots when the fact is this man is an overt Sharia supporting Islamist attempting to build a Mega-Mosque at ground zero who has compared the U.S. unfavorably to AQ, has said that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, that OBL was made in the USA, and has refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, actually come to think of it, he and Ron Paul are ideological fellow travelers.

The inspiration behind 9-11 was purely motivated by religion, assertions to the contrary are a lie, if it were not for their religion they would not have been offended by the U.S. defending the Kingdom against the overt aggression from Saddam Hussein they would have been grateful for the U.S. spending it's blood and treasure to defend the Kingdom, it is only because of Islam that they see any infidel soldier on or near the holy dirt of Mecca and Medina as an occupation, so congrats Ron Paul you are and wrong as usual. Ron Paul go read some Sayyid Qutb, study up on Qutb's formulation on the concept of Jahiliyya or STFU.

We do not see all Muslims as being responsible for 9-11 but we certainly recognize the causal relationship that the Islamist ideology had to play in the attacks and now we are pointing to the words and actions of a specific overt Islamist and saying "hey this **** aint right," and now we're being labeled bigots for having the audacity to exercise our first amendment rights to encourage others to exercise their individual right of self ownership not to enter into contractual obligations to trade their labour for their capital? Sorry that **** doesn't fly Mr. Paul you can't have it both ways, you don't get to defend the property and 1st amendment rights of overt Islamists and try to deny the very same rights to us or critisize us for exercising them, you are a hypocrite Mr. Paul of the highest order.
Well, at least you had the balls to post (though you're talking out of your hindparts)... the rest of the fringe-righties are treating this thread like kryptonite.

RP must have hit a nerve.

Newsflash: Associating mainstream American Muslims, even loosely, with Islamic extremists, is a form bigotry. It's kinda scary you don't see that. Maybe that's where the protestors are coming from, a place of ignorance and fear.

Even W. called Al-Qaeda a twisted form of Islam.
 

Gardener

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Well, at least you had the balls to post (though you're talking out of your hindparts)... the rest of the fringe-righties are treating this thread like kryptonite.

RP must have hit a nerve.

.
It hasn't penetrated your consciousness yet that it is Ron Paul who is the extreme righty, has it? :roll:
 

hazlnut

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It hasn't penetrated your consciousness yet that it is Ron Paul who is the extreme righty, has it? :roll:
That's the point of the thread.

I guess that went way over your head.

And I would not call RP "extreme", as he doesn't embrace the social-Con b.s. (has that fact penetrated your head area?)
 

cpwill

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Where are all the Tea people? Aren't they supposed to be Constitutionalists??

*crickets*
:shrug: Paul has just restated what everyone else is saying. they have a right to do so.


having a Right to do so, however, doesn't make it 'right' to do so. this isnt' an anti-mosque thing; neither is it an anti-muslim thing. there are thousands of mosques across america and plenty in New York, and nobody is protesting those. but having a "victory mosque" built by a man with strong ties to terrorist organizations who promises to impose sharia law on America on the site of a 'muslim victory' against the west is a pretty bitter pill.
 
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When most people say that the mosque shouldn't be built, they aren't saying, "and therefore, the State needs to intervene and stop this mosque from being built regardless if the mosque has the right to do so.". Ethically, I believe that the mosque shouldn't be built and if this mosque is supposed to belong to "moderate muslims", then they should use their moderate muslim empathy to understand and sympathize with the reasoning behind the rejection of this mosque being built and take it somewhere else. It doesn't matter to most that not all muslims are responsible for 911.

I think though that Islam in general should be "penalized" in this fashion because so called "moderate islam" hasn't really done a whole lot to correct their extremist radical brothers. Maybe if they spent more time campaigning against radical Islam and less time building meaningless "monuments" to 911 they would earn the blessing to build something that actually would be accepted as a monument to those who died on 911 and not be seen as only a monument to the hijackers.

As for Ron Paul, I'll agree with what Agent Ferris said, that "he's answering a question no one asked", and I'll add that with; Ron Paul just wants to put himself out there because he loves being the Ross Perot of the last 5 or so years. Woo hoo! Go Ron Paul! I love you man! Both parties are bad! You're such a wise guru! What else do you feel strongly about?! Ron Paul 2012!
 

hazlnut

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:shrug: Paul has just restated what everyone else is saying. they have a right to do so.


having a Right to do so, however, doesn't make it 'right' to do so. this isnt' an anti-mosque thing; neither is it an anti-muslim thing. there are thousands of mosques across america and plenty in New York, and nobody is protesting those. but having a "victory mosque" built by a man with strong ties to terrorist organizations who promises to impose sharia law on America on the site of a 'muslim victory' against the west is a pretty bitter pill.
Calling it a Victory Mosque tells me you're buying into all the fringe propaganda on this issue.

Why don't you challenge yourself and go outside your comfort zone, read something about the Mosque that doesn't come from one your usual sources.

Go for it. Read an opinion contrary to your own and think about it before rejecting it.

IMO -- for NYC to embrace the building of the Cultural Center, a place for Mainstream American Muslims to practice their religion, will send a strong message to the Islamic extremists:

You cant destroy our cities, you can't break our spirit, and you will not corrupt our values and principals. We are not the hateful monsters that you are. We are Americans.


We let the fear corrupt our values, then they win.
 
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